Exhaustion

[STEVEHOLT]

While I do agree fatigue was a factor, the fact that the collapse coincided perfectly with Southerland being removed from the game tells me it had to do more with that than anything else. removing him from the equation makes us a pretty mediocre team.

 

[HarrisonJBounel]

As was so well said in an earlier thread, "I'm still waiting for Kemba Walker to get tired."

When we get a big lead, we should step on their heads and rip out their throats. Instead, JB prefers to be a gracious gentleman. I'm sorry, but that is how he coaches. And it ALWAYS gets us in trouble. It happened against Pitt, it happened against Georgetown, and it REALLY happened against Louisville.

Congrats to Coach Pitino to have the tenacity to crush us. We would be lucky to have him as head coach - it couldn't happen soon enough, Dr. Gross.

 

[swish7]

Players never get mentally or physically tired on xbox.

Sent using my Commodore 64

Also, apparently only syracuse players get mentally and physically tired.

Our opponents, not so much.

 

[JoeSU]

We faded in the 2nd half against GT on Friday night, and I thought the team showed a ton of heart in OT after GT came back to tie it and seize momentum at the end of regulation. A heartless team would have collapsed right there.

Louisville enjoyed a double bye and played 2 comparatively easy contests in the quarters and semis. They earned that advantage with their regular season record, but nobody can convince me that wasn't a factor last night.

 

[llandz]

NBA players do not play an elimination game every night. Mentally different when you get into these tournament situations. Young mental minds. NBA players are older and wiser on the emotions involved. But this was a pressure tournament situation. You can not compare it to the NBA game.
I agree with what most posters said here. This team DOES have heart, and showed it this week. Eventually all tanks run out of gas, and ours did. Players did what they needed to do this week, and are ready for the NCAA tournament. They know they can win. They got their mojo back.

 

[orange79]

You people can be asses. I never once said fatigue wasn't a factor. I said it wasn't THE factor. Read much? And I have never played Xbox or any other video sports games as I preferred the real thing. If you can't debate rationally, resort to insults. Seems like a administrator should be above that. You're all looking for excuses but the fact is we are not a mentally strong team and our back court is especially vulnerable. Since the college game is usually a guard's game, we are susceptible to collapses.

After a quick scan, I didn't see any insults. Apologies if I missed one. But it doesn't help your case when you start out your rebuttal post with 'Baloney.' And the only admin I see who responded to this thread was rrlbees, who said, "Players never get mentally or physically tired on xbox." I am not sure that was directed at you (or anyone for that matter, as xbox was not mentioned prior to that). Gotta get a thicker skin, bro. Not everyone's going to agree with you.

 

[cuseguy]

I'll say it again: winning four straight to take the BE championship is tougher than winning four straight to reach the Final Four.

Four straight days.

Two weeks to reach the Final Four.

I think that gets lost sometimes.


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[ottodaorange]

Some of you people don't realize how tired this team was that 2nd half. We got beat by our 4th game in 4 days with insufficient substitutions to keep us fresh. I watch enough boxing/mma to see when a fighter is staggered and out on their feet. Look at the activity difference between Trevor Cooney and the rest of the team when he came in, It reminded me of the end of the 6 OT game.

In 4 days of 40 minutes of game time this team probably burned the equivalent of 4 days of consecutive 10 mile runs, couple that with the emotional exhaustion that was felt after GTOWN, and you get the 2nd half we had.

Before this team I didn't know if this team had it, but this tournament showed me, if they want it, if they want it for Boeheim, they can get it.

I agree that the most important factor was fatigue, both physical and mental. We played 4 games in 4 days against 3 ranked teams with stifling defenses. Louisville played 3 games in 3 days against 2 ranked teams and did not face a stifling defense until they played us. In the final 10 minutes of the game we looked a half step slower and less spring in our legs; symptoms of fatigue. It didn't help that we missed so many foul shots, but fatigue was the deciding factor. The good news is that there are no consecutive game days from here on.

 

[alphaorange]

After a quick scan, I didn't see any insults. Apologies if I missed one. But it doesn't help your case when you start out your rebuttal post with 'Baloney.' And the only admin I see who responded to this thread was rrlbees, who said, "Players never get mentally or physically tired on xbox." I am not sure that was directed at you (or anyone for that matter, as xbox was not mentioned prior to that). Gotta get a thicker skin, bro. Not everyone's going to agree with you.

Yes, Bee's remark was clearly directed at me and hinting that my experience and/or knowledge was limited to playing electronic games. If he meant different that that, he needs some writing practice. I responded in kind. My skin is plenty thick and I am not bothered by anything posted here, except I was annoyed at Bee's shot, especially since he offered nothing substantive in rebuttal. If you think saying "baloney" in response to someone's analysis is insulting, I suggest it is you, rather than I, that needs a thicker skin. And I couldn't care less if people here agree with my opinions. It's a basketball board, not an election.

 

[orange79]

Yes, Bee's remark was clearly directed at me and hinting that my experience and/or knowledge was limited to playing electronic games. If he meant different that that, he needs some writing practice. I responded in kind. My skin is plenty thick and I am not bothered by anything posted here, except I was annoyed at Bee's shot, especially since he offered nothing substantive in rebuttal. If you think saying "baloney" in response to someone's analysis is insulting, I suggest it is you, rather than I, that needs a thicker skin. And I couldn't care less if people here agree with my opinions. It's a basketball board, not an election.

IMO, you do need thicker skin if you can't take a 'shot' like Bees' remark. Whatever.

 

[alphaorange]

IMO, you do need thicker skin if you can't take a 'shot' like Bees' remark. Whatever.

What the hell is your issue? This has nothing to do with you and I can take anything anyone can dish out. I said I didn't appreciate the image of me he tried to paint, especially since he doesn't know me, or anything about me. If I need any advice from you, I'll ask, OK? Otherwise, you might try to keep your nose out of discussions that don't involve you, and stick to what you know, or don't know, about basketball.

 

[Orangezoo]

alpha- you came out asserting your opinion as if it was above those who you assume don't watch hoops much- what did you expect- you then go on to put down a team that fought its ass off to beat pitt and gtown and act like that didnt matter because of a bad 15 mins againsy louisville after two grueling games. With all due respect your first response comes off as you trying to be a negative ass expecting a team that has turned things around to be a immediate national title favorite. So the comment about thicker skin is on point- if your going to take such an aggressive approach- expect the same response.

 

[orange79]

What the hell is your issue? This has nothing to do with you and I can take anything anyone can dish out. I said I didn't appreciate the image of me he tried to paint, especially since he doesn't know me, or anything about me. If I need any advice from you, I'll ask, OK? Otherwise, you might try to keep your nose out of discussions that don't involve you, and stick to what you know, or don't know, about basketball.

Wow. I thought this was an internet discussion board, not a private conversation. I stand corrected. Carry on. Someone needs a nap.

 

[alphaorange]

Where exactly did I do all that? I said "baloney" to the very first post. That would mean I strongly disagree. I didn't asset my opinion was above anyone. I taker that do mean that anyone who disagrees with you or anyone else as asserting they know more. I do believe I'm right. Of course. Why would anyone have a differing opinion if they thought they were wrong? Wouldn't that be the nature of disagreeing? I said absolutely nothing about the previous three games. Not. One. Thing. I asserted that exhaustion was a factor. I also said that our guard play was not good. I said we didn't play with force, composure, or basketball intelligence. Tell me, which of these are untrue? I didn't attack players (or posters) personally. With all due respect, you are quite a wizard. You managed to derive how I feel about the team going forward and how I felt about them before without me having written a single word indicating that. I said they played a horrible second half of a single game, and I said why. Do you even read what you write? I never said any of what you posted.

I don't consider what I posted or what anyone else posted as "aggressive". I'm not bothered at all by the tone anyone took. I just don't like being insulted by someone who doesn't know me. The back and forth is stuff people say all the time when discussing sports in a bar, pub, or at work. Snide remarks trying to denigrate don't go over well. That was personal. Want to tell me I don't know what I am talking about? Feel free but it would be nice to hear why, or what it's based on. Want to paint me as a nerd sitting behind some video game and who knows nothing and I'll respond in kind.

 

[albanycuse]

Alpha relax buddy. Some people take the board and themselves too seriously.


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[cuseguy]

This thread is making me "exhausted"


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[Jake]

Eh, it was a combination of factors. You just can't pin it on exhaustion. But in our 8th half, with our best offensive player in the bench, with a backcourt that has been susceptible to pressure all year long, facing that kind of defense...

 

[Orangezoo]

all bees was getting at was try factoring in the team was tired and that its too easy to expect so much from them as a fan... also that is all my post is about too.. people are saying your not giving the team credit to go with the criticism- your tone was a bit aggressive whether you see it or not- i think your undervaluing the fatigue factor and using yourself as an example playing hoops is not a good comparison- your the only one making this personal.

 

[Orangezoo]

agree jake- without the benefit of the whistle to counter that defense we were in trouble i said it in another post that this reminded me of the title game against the cards in the 6ot year- we just caved to their pressure as a tired team that had paul harris as one of the ball handlers..

 

[cuseguy]

The best teams generally have several options for ballhandlers. It helps when your forwards and centers are comfortable with the ball in tight situations.


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[alphaorange]

My entire point was that being tired is a very convenient excuse. We played with more force in the 6th OT...We weren't exhausted then? Tough teams play through it. You really think this team could be called tough? And then there are those that think JS was the key. Maybe he would have been a big difference, but odds are he is/was due to cool off. Nobody is shooting 70% for an extended time. He could just have easily gone 0-5 in the 2nd half. I prefer to discuss what did happen and why.

 

[realorange]

Suggest you all check the box score. They played one more guy than we did and he played 2 minutes. Silva played as much as MCW and played harder. Smith played as much as Triche and played harder. Time was dispersed almost equally among the two teams. Either they are in much better shape or it wasn't the factor so many think it was...

If dispersal of time is 52 minutes of subs for us and 70 for Louisville, I guess I missed that math lesson. Oh, and they got 41 points from their bench and we got 8 from Keita.

 

[dollarbill44]

and yet we were up 16 points in the 2nd half. throw that logic out the window. their pressure d and our lack of good ball handlers killed us.they forced us to make quick decisions to pass that ended up turnovers. these kids are pumped up for these games. i never buy the fatigue issue for this tournament. double buys are overrated.

You are either blind, biased or oblivious. Or all 3.

 

[alphaorange]

If dispersal of time is 52 minutes of subs for us and 70 for Louisville, I guess I missed that math lesson. Oh, and they got 4 1 points from their bench and we got 8 from Keita.

Guess I'll have to school you then. It isn't about starters vs subs. Its about how many minutes the players played. Siva/MCW about the same. Triche/Smith about the same. Dieng/Fair the same. As I recall, you can match up almost all the players that way within +/- 2 minutes. Is that too hard to understand? No single player played more than a player on the other team. Oh...and where did we talk about who had more firepower off the bench? I guess I missed that reading lesson...

 

[realorange]

I just disagree. Seen NBA teams play back to back to back and play hard even though tired. Those guys are older and the play/schedule is much more physical. I, myself, played at SU every Mon-Fri for 1 1/2 hours when I was between 35-45 years old. The guys played hard and there were few breaks. Not comparing the level of competition with D1, just saying that you shouldn't be that tired at 20 years old. I mean tired to the point of not being able to function. They got got flustered. You could see guys running away from the ball because they lost confidence. In short, I agree they were tired. So cry me a river. Many of the turnovers were unforced and the decision making was just awful.

Btw, I don't think this makes SU different from most teams. I do think it makes them different from elite teams.

I don't think you have ever been in a position remotely similar to what they faced yesterday. You could clearly see the physical fatigue, but after battling that along with the press, the refs and seeing their lead go south, the mental fatigue kicked in. Believe me when I tell you that mental fatigue will sap you to the point you are operating on 75% tops. That's when bad judgment and loose play happens very easily.