Exhaustion

[Orangezoo]

It's both. It's rare (and problematic) that Fair and South can't help. We usually have a forward who can be counted on to bring the ball up.

But these two guards are also worse than usual. One is a poor decision-maker who's been careless with the ball for his whole career, the other is inexperienced and doesn't look like someone who's been dribbling against pressure for much of his basketball-playing life.

its amazing how much you can come to appreciate scoops ball handling when you watch us against a press.. scoop and dion made us almost un-pressable last year especially when having kris to help out as well.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

and yet we beat that same team, in their building, without having JS in uniform.

because triche sold his soul to the devil for one grand game..and we really had no business winning it anyway. they handed it to us...or should I say siva handed it to us

 

[ForeverOrange]

They may have been a little tired, but if you watched closely you could see once they got pressure on MCW they started mouthing at him getting in his head, and it worked. The ball handling was scary once L'villed turned up the pressure, it's been the same problem all year for us. MCW just is not good at dealing with pressure.

 

[rrlbees]

In your eyes, maybe, and although these forwards are not what I would call good but they aren't the worst culprits. The guards are. Guards are the primary handlers on every team and this is the second worst SU team handling the ball I can remember. Ours can't handle pressure. My statement that the team handles badly is 100% correct. Since the guards handle more but do not handle it well at all, I'd say my post was right on and YOU are wrong. So outside of your post not being aimed at me, how else am I wrong? I mean besides having a different point of view from you?

tell me 1 time cj or james dribble against any pressure at all. they don't even dribble to get their own shots. su used to use forwards to break a press knowing the guards would be blanketed. as good as cj and james are and the skills they possess, dribbling is both of their weaknesses by a mile.

 

[alphaorange]

tell me 1 time cj or james dribble against any pressure at all. they don't even dribble to get their own shots. su used to use forwards to break a press knowing the guards would be blanketed. as good as cj and james are and the skills they possess, dribbling is both of their weaknesses by a mile.

I never said our forwards could handle, did I? I said the whole team was bad and the guards (PRIMARY ball handlers) were not good at all for guards. The majority of the turnovers were not by strips but rather by poor passes, fumbled catches, falling down, and basic mishandling. This whole "we don't have forwards to help break the press" stuff is just hand wringing. We weren't losing it in traps, we were losing it with one on one ball pressure. Maybe if we had a SF that handled like a guard it would have helped some, but they would have pressed him, too. Guards have to value the ball and ours don't/can't.

 

[AluminNV]

Yeah this one was bad, far worse than the one after 6OTs.

But you can factor in the same level of being tired.

Add in the refs were out to get us just as bad if not worse than Ohio St (because Lville got away with murder.)

And then of course you have the awful play and poor coaching as well. It was all of them combined and why we got outscored by 35 in the second half (which is more than most teams in this league score per half.)


Boeheim isn't a great coach at putting the knife to good teams when we are up. I know its easier said than done but we take our foot off the gas whenever we go up 10+.

 

[rrlbees]

Marsh, I think everyone agrees that it had an effect. I think what is being debated is the level.

You didn't agree it had an effect. You're revising things now. Go read your original post in this thread.

Sent using my Commodore 64

 

[Knicks411]

I'd say a better comparison would be the Michigan State game in 2000 (haven't read too many of these threads; have to think this has been said elsewhere). Other team made adjustments, a couple calls went against us, and we froze up.

Certainly we had tired guys, but they didn't look completely spent like they did in 2009. Thought they looked better, energy-wise, last night than they did against Georgetown. They just got flustered and completely melted down.

I can buy that; 2000 was before my time as an SU fan so I'll defer to you.

I remembered the halftime score in 09 being 35-27, so when it weas 35-22 at halftime it made me think even more of the 09 game. (Then I looked up the score, in 09 it was actually 38-30, not 35-27, so i was wrong. No idea why I had that score in my head)

 

[alphaorange]

You didn't agree it had an effect. You're revising things now. Go read your original post in this thread.

Sent using my Commodore 64

You don't read well either, boss. Let me quote it for you: "Baloney. They played without heart and brains in the second half. Tired bodies? Not in the span of 5 minutes. They played scared and if you have watched as much basketball as a lot of us, you'd see that. It happens all the time and it happens in the middle of a season, as well. Trying to what you watch in MMA to what you see in basketball is silly. They really didn't look all that tired to me. To me, the problem was more mental. As soon as they started looking at the refs for help, they were done. The best teams figure out how to play through adversity and we tend to let things snowball."

OK...said they don't go from fine to exhausted in 5 minutes. Only a fool would think that happens. That is the time span to go from up and confident to folding and unsure. Then I said they didn't appear to be all that tired to me during the collapse. Guess what, Chief? They didn't. Did you see guys bent over hands on their shorts? That's a sign. Getting your ass kicked is not a telltale sign. So I think its pretty clear I don't share the posters opinion but nowhere do I say it was no factor. The OP said it was THE factor. I said baloney. YOU are the guy revising. Just read what I wrote. Thats what I meant, nothing more or less. Your channeling of your inner Kreskin failed you.

 

[Orangezoo]

You don't read well either, boss. Let me quote it for you: "Baloney. They played without heart and brains in the second half. Tired bodies? Not in the span of 5 minutes. They played scared and if you have watched as much basketball as a lot of us, you'd see that. It happens all the time and it happens in the middle of a season, as well. Trying to what you watch in MMA to what you see in basketball is silly. They really didn't look all that tired to me. To me, the problem was more mental. As soon as they started looking at the refs for help, they were done. The best teams figure out how to play through adversity and we tend to let things snowball."

OK...said they don't go from fine to exhausted in 5 minutes. Only a fool would think that happens. That is the time span to go from up and confident to folding and unsure. Then I said they didn't appear to be all that tired to me during the collapse. Guess what, Chief? They didn't. Did you see guys bent over hands on their shorts? That's a sign. Getting your ass kicked is not a telltale sign. So I think its pretty clear I don't share the posters opinion but nowhere do I say it was no factor. The OP said it was THE factor. I said baloney. YOU are the guy revising. Just read what I wrote. Thats what I meant, nothing more or less. Your channeling of your inner Kreskin failed you.

you clearly know so much more than any of us and we are all out of line to challenge your opinion...

 

[cuserulesall]

I made a very poor decision to run when I got home from NYC today. Paying for it right now!

I hear you , I did 500 , 200 pound military pushups last night and i'm 49 . I'm truly hurting today . Boy was I pissed at the refs last night .

 

[SWC75]

UCONN once won this thing with 5 games in five days. And then went on to win the national championship.

 

[Chris02M]

the fatigue isnt wasnt led to us getting behind . see the pittsburgh and gtown games in those games those teams made runs at us but everytime we countered in the louisville game when they made there surge we had no answer (partly caused by sutherland being planted on the bench with 4)

 

[Chris02M]

UCONN once won this thing with 5 games in five days. And then went on to win the national championship.

uconn had a great player who could create and make his own shots consistently in cardiac kemba

 

[SWC75]

uconn had a great player who could create and make his own shots consistently in cardiac kemba

The issue was the impact of fatigue. Kemba being a great player has nothing to do with that.

I do think injuries may have been an issue. MCW went down hard a couple of times and appeared to hurt a hand or wrist and an ankle. And I suspect that we will find out after the season how much Triche has been hurting with his back.

 

[orangepassion]

Some of you people don't realize how tired this team was that 2nd half. We got beat by our 4th game in 4 days with insufficient substitutions to keep us fresh. I watch enough boxing/mma to see when a fighter is staggered and out on their feet. Look at the activity difference between Trevor Cooney and the rest of the team when he came in, It reminded me of the end of the 6 OT game.

In 4 days of 40 minutes of game time this team probably burned the equivalent of 4 days of consecutive 10 mile runs, couple that with the emotional exhaustion that was felt after GTOWN, and you get the 2nd half we had.

Before this team I didn't know if this team had it, but this tournament showed me, if they want it, if they want it for Boeheim, they can get it.

I agree that the team was exhausted and that this played a major factor in their loss- not so much that they lost but how badly they lost. SU, however, should be commended for its 3 BET victories after the fiasco of the 2nd Georgetown loss. To be able to beat a decent Seton Hall team and then Pitt, which has always been a very tough opponent, and a Top 10 team such as Georgetown in 3 consecutive nights was a major accomplishment which will be long remembered.

Expecting SU, however, to beat an athletic and talented Louisville team with 2 quick guards such as Siva & Williams, a solid center, and a good cast on the 4th day of competition is asking too much.Expecting a relatively slow-footed Triche and a relatively inexperienced, immature, and turnover-prone MCW- regardless of his talent and potential- to be able to overcome intense & relentless full court pressure by a well-coached team such as Louisville in the 4th game in 4 days is unrealistic particularly when SU had no other players who could handle the ball and relieve the pressure. The long and short of it is that SU played well fo 3 1/2 games & then had nothing left in the tank against an aggressive and tough-minded team that, in desperation, resorted to a full-court press with 15 minutes left in the game and hit the jackpot! The full-court press not only prevented SU from playing its usual offensive game, it also tired SU so that SU could not play the tough zone defense it usually plays.

Is Louisville, which lost to SU on its homecourt & barely beat SU at the Dome, a great team? No. However, it was a resourceful team who did what it needed to do to win. And by its overwhelming win agaist the fatigued Orangemen it set the table for beibng selected as the overall No. 1 seed inthe Tournament.

It is important that the Orangemen get some rest and come back strong in the Tournament. This team is not an exceptional team. However, it's a scrappy team which has had some very good moments this season despite having to endure some difficult moments (for example, JS' academic problem, MCW's shopping problem, & DeJuan's injury) to become a No. 4 seed. Hopefully, the guys will continue to play like they did during most of BET and make us proud.Let's go, Orange!