Exposed

[IthacaMatt]

I think AA is doing a decent job however the challenge with a continuity hire meant there wouldn't be much roster turnover seeing how AA played an integral role in recruiting these players. I think we have to ask is the best recruiting class under JB, where they should be progress wise mid way through their sophomore year?
MacLeod has been a disappointment. JJ does not look like a McD AA from just 2 years ago. I liked the move to bring in him in but the production hasn't been there. Cuffe is an adequate rotation player.
Today's loss felt like a continuation of JB blowouts.

Well, in JW's defense, the continuity hire played to the benefit of all the young guys on the roster and their hoped-for development. We are still a team made up primarily of sophomores, with 2 injured centers, and outside shooters who are underperforming. We also need better motion, more screens, more cuts on offense.

 

[Fly Rodder]

UConn should have fired Hurley then after he went 35-29 in the AAC and took 5 years to win a tournament game. Irrational. We are 17 games into season 1.

I do get the idea of patience but I’ll offer three counterpoints:

1) Hurley was an outside hire after UConn fired their first In-house hire even though he won a National Championship in his second year and had 20 wins in his first season.

2) lots of coaches don’t ever improve much and eventually disappear. Patience doesn’t always fix coaches.

3) it’s been a decade* since we were in the top-25. And the offense this season arguably looks worse than it did at any point during those lost years. And they were mostly ugly offenses.

Relatedly, JAB burned up most of the patience & goodwill for the program. That account surplus is pretty low.

I think the number of people actually literally calling for Red to be fired right now is pretty small, but the number who are willing to give him a lot of time to learn & build a program is going dwindle faster than what might be normal.

 

[IthacaMatt]

This is not football. You do not have to replace 22-50 players on offense, defense, special teams. It takes 1 year to fix with incoming recruits and the portal. 2 more years of this after this season? That would be 5 years (including JB's last 2 years) out of the tournament. That would be unacceptable.

I agree. We have a stud PF coming in and a very good 2 Guard. We could use a center from the portal, and an outside shooter, Elijah Hughes wing kind of player.

 

[Cuse181]

UConn should have fired Hurley then after he went 35-29 in the AAC and took 5 years to win a tournament game. Irrational. We are 17 games into season 1.

Hurley was a proven coach, not a continuity hire from a team nobody wanted continuity from

 

[IthacaMatt]

Of course you’re right. But we will have to make some room in order to bring in a few transfers.

Well, it seems like we could replace one of the centers (Hima most likely from what we've heard about his injury status). If Taylor can't be effective against ACC teams, then he might need to consider a transfer. Judah probably goes pro. I don't think Starling looks like next year's starting PG.

 

[DilemaCuse]

I do get the idea of patience but I’ll offer three counterpoints:

1) Hurley was an outside hire after UConn fired their first In-house hire even though he won a National Championship in his second year and had 20 wins in his first season.

2) lots of coaches don’t ever improve much and eventually disappear. Patience doesn’t always fix coaches.

3) it’s been a decade* since we were in the top-25. And the offense this season arguably looks worse than it did at any point during those lost years. And they were mostly ugly offenses.

Relatedly, JAB burned up most of the patience & goodwill for the program. That account surplus is pretty low.

I think the number of people actually literally calling for Red to be fired right now is pretty small, but the number who are willing to give him a lot of time to learn & build a program is going dwindle faster than what might be normal.

Great post. And I feel Red has us in a better spot than anytime in JBs last 2 years, that's not saying much, though because today was a reminder of how far the program decayed and there is still a ways to go.

 

[crv1728]

Well, it seems like we could replace one of the centers (Hima most likely from what we've heard about his injury status). If Taylor can't be effective against ACC teams, then he might need to consider a transfer. Judah probably goes pro. I don't think Starling looks like next year's starting PG.

I was just suggesting in a different thread that we shouldn’t give up on JJ yet. He might yet be the player we all hoped for.

 

[two3zone]

Well, it seems like we could replace one of the centers (Hima most likely from what we've heard about his injury status). If Taylor can't be effective against ACC teams, then he might need to consider a transfer. Judah probably goes pro. I don't think Starling looks like next year's starting PG.

Where is Judah going pro? Europe?

 

[Cusefan0307]

I do get the idea of patience but I’ll offer three counterpoints:

1) Hurley was an outside hire after UConn fired their first In-house hire even though he won a National Championship in his second year and had 20 wins in his first season.

2) lots of coaches don’t ever improve much and eventually disappear. Patience doesn’t always fix coaches.

3) it’s been a decade* since we were in the top-25. And the offense this season arguably looks worse than it did at any point during those lost years. And they were mostly ugly offenses.

Relatedly, JAB burned up most of the patience & goodwill for the program. That account surplus is pretty low.

I think the number of people actually literally calling for Red to be fired right now is pretty small, but the number who are willing to give him a lot of time to learn & build a program is going dwindle faster than what might be normal.

I see a lot of discussion that Red is an extension of JB which I don’t think it’s true. I don’t get why an outside hire should get more leeway. I‘ve asked multiple posters who we would have hired and I‘ve got zero responses.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I agree. We have a stud PF coming in and a very good 2 Guard. We could use a center from the portal, and an outside shooter, Elijah Hughes wing kind of player.

Benny once was a stud wing coming in. So were Roberson & McCullough. Its hard to rely on freshmen to fix serious roster issues unless you’re bringing in multiple top-20 kids every season and can afford to miss on a few.

 

[BomberOrange]

Keep Brown & Q.
Hard conversations with everyone else.

I’d agree with that

 

[BomberOrange]

I see a lot of discussion that Red is an extension of JB which I don’t think it’s true. I don’t get why an outside hire should get more leeway. I‘ve asked multiple posters who we would have hired and I‘ve got zero responses.

Dan Mullen?

 

[Fly Rodder]

I see a lot of discussion that Red is an extension of JB which I don’t think it’s true. I don’t get why an outside hire should get more leeway. I‘ve asked multiple posters who we would have hired and I‘ve got zero responses.

His offense is the same, it’s mostly the same players, and it’s mostly the same assistant coaches, S&C, and mostly the same or worse results. He’s a continuity hire.

Also random posters arent going to have good ideas nor will everyone agree with them even if they might be good ideas. And then there will many many justifications for why their idea wasn’t possible in the first place. That’s lame. Fortunately for everyone random posters don’t have responsibility for these hires. But Wildhack gets paid a lot of money to make those decisions.

Basketball program has been a mid-major for a decade. I’m not renewing my seasons or any donations until after April at the earliest.

 

[DilemaCuse]

I see a lot of discussion that Red is an extension of JB which I don’t think it’s true. I don’t get why an outside hire should get more leeway. I‘ve asked multiple posters who we would have hired and I‘ve got zero responses.

Good question. Would get more leeway is different than should. 1 reason, money. Outside hire would have required a buyout and higher salary than the internal hire. That sometimes leads to more patience before firing due to money owed on a contract.

 

[Cusefan0307]

His offense is the same, it’s mostly the same players, and it’s mostly the same assistant coaches, S&C, and mostly the same or worse results. He’s a continuity hire.

Also random posters arent going to have good ideas nor will everyone agree with them even if they might be good ideas. And then there will many many justifications for why their idea wasn’t possible in the first place. That’s lame. Fortunately for everyone random posters don’t have responsibility for these hires. But Wildhack gets paid a lot of money to make those decisions.

Basketball program has been a mid-major for a decade. I’m not renewing my seasons or any donations until after April at the earliest.

It’s not really. If JB was here we would likely still have Joe and be rolling out the zone 100% of the time.

 

[DilemaCuse]

I see a lot of discussion that Red is an extension of JB which I don’t think it’s true. I don’t get why an outside hire should get more leeway. I‘ve asked multiple posters who we would have hired and I‘ve got zero responses.

Outside hires? Cooley, Shrewsberry, Pitino etc. the usual suspects we mentioned last year that were gettable if willing to pony up. Would they work out any better, who knows?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Hurley was a proven coach, not a continuity hire from a team nobody wanted continuity from

UConn fans wanted him gone. I read their board. Point is fans are irrational.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Outside hires? Cooley, Shrewsberry, Pitino etc. the usual suspects we mentioned last year that were gettable if willing to pony up. Would they work out any better, who knows?

So we would be the same or worse based on this years results.

 

[Fly Rodder]

It’s not really. If JB was here we would likely still have Joe and be rolling out the zone 100% of the time.

I won’t convince anyone of anything they don’t want to believe or consider.

Red has more institutional inertia than any other possible hire other than maybe Hopkins. If Red is not a continuity hire, who would be? Gmac? That’s it. That’s the list of possible continuity hires.

 

[Fly Rodder]

So we would be the same or worse based on this years results.

This is the type of justification that makes any other possibility an impossibility for someone and pointless to discuss further.

There’s no such thing as perfect candidate.

 

[Cusefan0307]

This is the type of justification that makes any other possibility an impossibility for someone and pointless to discuss further.

There’s no such thing as perfect candidate.

I didn’t say there was. My only opinion is I think Red getting criticism because of JB’s past failures is stupid. Why an outside hire should get more leeway makes no sense to me. We can agree to disagree.

 

[DilemaCuse]

So we would be the same or worse based on this years results.

It's a total hypothetical, there's no other result to definitively say. There would have been more roster turnover, more wins, who knows. As I previously said, I think AA has us in a better spot. Fwiw, Red beat Cooley so I will say worse than 11-5.

 

[Bayside44]

UConn should have fired Hurley then after he went 35-29 in the AAC and took 5 years to win a tournament game. Irrational. We are 17 games into season 1.

Dan Hurley Coaching Record | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Dan Hurley Coaching Record

www.sports-reference.com

 

[Bayside44]

Apples and Oranges. Hurley had a lot of success as a head coach before UCONN. He also was very close to making the tourney during the pandemic year.

It took Hurley a season at Wagner and two at URI before he turned the corner at those places.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Guys, we don’t need a ‘state of the program’ post everytime we get our butts handed to us.

Don’t we?