Exposed

[Cuseball]

Regardless the effort this team has displayed against top 25 teams is pathetic…this board would be on complete meltdown if JB had a 40 point loss.

That’s exactly right. Non compete blowout today and rolling over and giving up late vs dook and anyone with a pulse . We have beat no one that is any good and lost to everyone that is decent. Losing by 40 to UNC and being down 20-30 all game is shameful

 

[two3zone]

Why is the Pitt game important?

It’s a quad 1 opportunity.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I was just suggesting in a different thread that we shouldn’t give up on JJ yet. He might yet be the player we all hoped for.

I see him as a pretty good player, but is he good enough to be our starting PG? He's averaging 2.6 assists vs. 2.1 turnovers, and he plays more minutes than anybody on the team. Yes, he shares PG duties with Judah and Copeland.

Copeland is putting up 2.9 assists vs. 1.9 turnovers (how is that possible, right?) in 2/3 the minutes of JJ, and Judah is giving us 3.9 assists vs. 2.9 turnovers.

I'm not writing off anybody, but Judah had more assists last year, and Girard as a sophomore was the last time our top assists guy only put up 3.5 per game. We've had some truly dreadful PG production these past 5 years or so, like "historically worst" territory, like Frank Howard leading us with only 2.7 assists per game in 2018-19.

John Gillon was our last guy to average 5 assists a game, and that was 7 years ago. Last person before that was Tyler Ennis, our first year in the ACC.

I think we need a REAL point guard. Nobody has created easy shots for other guys on our teams in years and years. Autry has to start running better offensive sets to give people better looks at the basket. He is working on generating easy buckets in transition, but you have to be able to run a half court offense, too.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Why is the Pitt game important?

Well, it depends on what this season's goal is. If we want to make the NCAAs this year, Pitt on the road is a game we need to win. We haven't beaten any of the top teams we've faced, so winning a couple on the road versus rough "peers" competing for the same post season spot, well, we need this one.

Our upcoming schedule now: @Pitt, Miami, Fla State, NC State (3 in a row at home), then @BC, @Wake, Louisville in the Dome. The next 7 games get us through the first week of February, and if you ask me, we have to do well in this stretch, because we have 3 ranked teams and 4 out of 6 on the road to close out the regular season.

So, looking at these next 7 games, Miami has lost 2 out of 3, including to Louisville at home. We are a slight favorite against Miami, mostly based on the home floor, I would guess.

Florida State has won 4 straight, and is sitting high in the league standings, but lost 4 straight earlier in the season, and ESPN says we have a 2/3 likelihood of beating them. Again, they may be over-estimating our home court advantage.

NC State is going to be favored against us, they are 12-4 and 4-1 in conference, and played UNC fairly tough. Wake has won 10 out of 11, and it's on the road, so I am not counting on that one being a win, either.

Louisville is still really bad, and have lost 7 out of 9. So that should be a win at home.

That leaves @Pitt, Miami and NC State as our toss-up games. We can expect to win @BC and home vs. Louisville, and I expect to lose on the road at Wake and probably to Florida State.

We are currently 11-5 (2-3). After the next 7 games, I see our range as 13-7 with 3 toss-ups. That's why Pitt away is an important game, and we have to win 1 out of 2 at home vs. Miami and Florida State.

That would leave us 15-8 (6-6) with 8 games left in the regular season. Three likely losses to ranked teams, and the very real possibility of 4 losses in a row in the heart of February. I can see us probably finishing only 3-5 in that last 8 (Ga. Tech on the road would be an upset if we were to win it ...)

Best case, we're looking at something like 19-12, and it could be a couple games worse. I don't think that's going to get us into the tournament this year, but it's a very solid year, with a first year coach, and some guys who transferred in who never got over their injuries. The wheels could have come off this year, but it looks we're going to get through the season in NIT quality shape, which is not bad for a first year coach following a Hall of Famer.

If we harbor any hopes of the NCAA this year, we have to win @Pitt, @GaTech, Miami, Florida State, NC State, home vs. Notre Dame, Va. Tech & Louisville. That would give us a 10-5 finish, a couple decent road wins, and an overall record of 21-10. Win one or two at the Conference Tournament, and we might make it in as an 11 or a 12 seed.

 

[RoofBeam]

Unfortunately he basically left left the program in shambles. He should have retired at least 5 years earlier than he did

I would have said 10 years earlier.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Where is Judah going pro? Europe?

Could be G League, could be portal, to "play for a Top 25 team".

 

[IthacaMatt]

Regardless the effort this team has displayed against top 25 teams is pathetic…this board would be on complete meltdown if JB had a 40 point loss.

I disagree. They've played most of the good teams pretty competitively for 20-25 minutes or so, and then talent won out, as we failed to be able to keep up our scoring. Gonzaga and UNC were the only really embarrassing blow out losses.

 

[kcsu]

This team lacks a center, true pg, shooting.
It wins by getting to the rack as that is our strength.
We won't beat top teams until add the missing pieces.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

This team lacks a center, true pg, shooting.
It wins by getting to the rack as that is our strength.
We won't beat top teams until add the missing pieces.

but we should not be losing by 40 points ever. that is just dumb.

 

[mark79]

What is a cycle here? If it's two or three years, ok, cool. More than that? Nah

2-3 years. If we keep getting the kind of recruits Red seems like he’s getting, I’ll have more patience. It’s simply too early to make a judgement but we’ll know more in 2-3 years.

 

[mark79]

Blowouts aside, I am actually thrilled to have 11-6 record. .500 season was a win in my book for first year. And this is also the hardest schedule there has been in probably a decade. Sure a lot has to change but middle of season progress report I’m not that mad. Sure getting blown out stinks but again we kinda knew those games were going to be very tough no matter what

Wait a minute - a voice of reason! It always amazes me how easily some people go into overreact mode.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

I think Red is doing a good job and has things headed in the right direction. More specifically I like he’s style of play, especially in the defensive side of the ball (yesterday aside).

That being said, he needs to address the roster makeup and the staff in the offseason. I personally think GMac and Grif have been on staff way too long and are average to below average coaches. I feel we’re holding on to them too long due to alumni loyalty. We need to shake up the staff because it’s not working. Recruiting isn’t great (although I like Freeman and Moore) and the player development has been poor.

The roster issues have been beaten to death so nothing more to add there other than you can go into next year with 9 rising juniors on the roster. Need to shake 4 of them free.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Red is not the problem. Lack of roster is. This team has no center or forwards and guards who can’t shoot. How have we won any games? We don’t have a point guard and people wonder why we can’t beat top ten teams. You watch good teams and they’re knocking down shots all day. I get giddy every time we make a jump shot from anywhere on the court. We are statistically, not my opinion, maybe the worst shooting team in America and people want to blame Red. You can blame the coaches for the roster, but it’s not fair to say they can’t coach the team they have.

 

[gmoney44]

He gets about 730 more days from today, overall around 3 years on the job.

Judah cannot even be bothered to get back on D. They had a free run, missed a dunk & a 2nd UNC player whom had been behind or even with Mintz got that rebound and laid it in. Mintz couldn't even be bothered to be in frame. Its embarrassing.

Hats off to the dudes still diving for loose balls when we were down 30.

It’s hard to get back on D when you start from lying on your back on the baseline every time.

 

[gmoney44]

I think Red is doing a good job and has things headed in the right direction. More specifically I like he’s style of play, especially in the defensive side of the ball (yesterday aside).

That being said, he needs to address the roster makeup and the staff in the offseason. I personally think GMac and Grif have been on staff way too long and are average to below average coaches. I feel we’re holding on to them too long due to alumni loyalty. We need to shake up the staff because it’s not working. Recruiting isn’t great (although I like Freeman and Moore) and the player development has been poor.

The roster issues have been beaten to death so nothing more to add there other than you can go into next year with 9 rising juniors on the roster. Need to shake 4 of them free.

The staff needed to be turned over when we finally broke free from JB. To hire within and keep the whole staff was insanity. We may not have the horses to compete with the big dogs but there is zero evidence of a well coached team. This is going to end badly in the near future.

 

[OrangePA]

This game exposed where SU is as a program. We saw the downside of all the players, the overall roster issues and a new head coach finding his way. It’s painful and hard to watch but necessary to have a realistic assessment. With the exception of Brown our best players faults are equal to their talents. We also have rotational players that wouldn’t get minutes on NCAAT caliber teams.

It is was it is. We are what we have seen. Sure this was the worst the team could perform but at their best this game is still a loss IMO. In some ways I wonder if Red has done a great job to have 11 wins so far. I’m not sure the roster is better than Pitt/BC/Oregon.

I’m going to marinate in this feeling. I’m going to remember it. One day we will be back and this will just make being back feel that much better.

For me, we are just not tough enough - not physical enough. We got outrebounded badly. We gave up too many second chance points. We need stronger, better players closer to the basket - it's just that simple in my opinion.

 

[Bayside44]

For me, we are just not tough enough - not physical enough. We got outrebounded badly. We gave up too many second chance points. We need stronger, better players closer to the basket - it's just that simple in my opinion.

Jalen Washington - Bacot's backup - would be our most explosive player by a mile.

Team is roll players and guys trying to figure out their roll. Judah needs to stop foul hunting and play more straight up basketball. He gives away as much as he gets, yesterday moreso.

 

[Cstate]

Jalen Washington - Bacot's backup - would be our most explosive player by a mile.

Team is roll players and guys trying to figure out their roll. Judah needs to stop foul hunting and play more straight up basketball. He gives away as much as he gets, yesterday moreso.

This is what is infuriating and makes me not want to watch the game. I just watched a point guard in Pedula from VT (who no one will mistake for an “nba prospect” such as some think with Judah) just shred 3 good teams in a row for 26, 32, and 34 by dribbling, passing, running an offense and shooting straight up, NOT dribble dribble dribble dribble head down and have no where to go and lunge into the defender severely off balanced to try and draw a foul while throwing a line drive at the rim. And then picks himself off the ground and look towards the ref with his hands up as that same ref AND the opposing team are already running towards the opposite basket!

 

[swish7]

Even the guys that transferred in this year? The ones that Red recruited?
I’d like to keep JJ. I think/hope he will improve next year. Same with Bell, I think he will contribute more in the next two years.

Agreed, but it all depends on how they play the rest of the year.

I don't care about what mix returns or emotionally tied to any one player. If Red needs to clean house, he should. Even coaches. Do your job.

It's just so bad against any Q1 team. So many kids quitting on plays. Unable or unwilling or too embarassed to compete. No leadership, except for what comes from Q, Brown (by example), & Judah (most times).

A friend was at the game within earshot & Red lit into the team, questioning their pride, & they were all apparently mute.

Meanwhile, UCF is knocking off Kansas, someone had Tennessee on the ropes yesterday, may have beat them. This is supposed to be fun. Don't care about Ws & Ls, but the lack of effort is so frustrating.

 

[swish7]

We aren’t signing 5-7 transfers.

Then we won't be competitive, again.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Then we won't be competitive, again.

We don’t need 5-7 transfers, but we do need at least 3 or 4.

 

[tptcuse]

We don’t need 5-7 transfers, but we do need at least 3 or 4.

At least, a C, a PG, and someone who can shoot.

 

[Sbucketball]

We don’t need 5-7 transfers, but we do need at least 3 or 4.

Considering the 2 freshmen coming in, I could live with 2-3 transfers if they're the right guys. Some of the guys we're down on would be fine for depth, just not the big roles they're playing.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

At least, a C, a PG, and someone who can shoot.

Won’t be PG (despite our current frustrations). We desperately need better forwards. Brown is great but he needs help. Freeman will be a good addition, but we really need two others, especially small forwards that can shoot and rebound. If you really break down our current roster it’s our weakest spot. It was my biggest fear with this team headed into the year and it seems to have become a reality. JT, Bell and Benny are complete liabilities at forward. We can work with almost everything else, but those positions need to be addressed in the offseason.

 

[tptcuse]

Won’t be PG (despite our current frustrations). We desperately need better forwards. Brown is great but he needs help. Freeman will be a good addition, but we really need two others, especially small forwards that can shoot and rebound. If you really break down our current roster it’s our weakest spot. It was my biggest fear with this team headed into the year and it seems to have become a reality. JT, Bell and Benny are complete liabilities at forward. We can work with almost everything else, but those positions need to be addressed in the offseason.

Who do you think will be PG next year?