Fatigue

[two3zone]

I've seen it written about 50 times so far and I'm just going to post my thoughts on it because it's obviously a topic of concern with a lot of people on here.

I know these guys are getting a ton of minutes, but come on. We're talking about 18-22 year old kids here who are in elite shape. These guys are in better shape outside of pro basketball players and Olympians. They can handle it. Their bodies can recover extremely fast and if they've made it to this level I'm sure they can handle it. Most of these guys played AAU basketball on top of playing high school basketball so they're actually probably playing less games than they're used to.

One other thing as well, do you think CJ Fair is any more tired today because he played 39 minutes against Pitt instead of 32 or 33 minutes? Give me a break. A difference in a player playing 5 or 6 minutes less a few days before isn't going to have any baring today/tonight.

I know our guys work hard and that a lot is asked from them but these guys are are all in tip top shape. Even if these guys were out drinking last night until 6 am there is no excuse not to beat NC St easily.

 

[orangenauburn]

you are discounting the physicality that teams are bringing against them ... play 3 city league games a week and you can feel worn down


I can't imagine the needed ice baths by these guys

 

[Libero2]

What I think is the following...

These guys are all hearing how they are the best team in the country the last five minutes, and they are holding a little something back so that in the event we are in a tight game in the last 5 they have an extra push.

I think it might be going to their heads, and on top of it, back to back miraculous escapes is only going to exacerbate that thought process. Hopefully we don't need a miracle against BC.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I don't have the information or expertise to truly argue your point and this is the same argument that JB makes. But, I will just point out that even if we accept the premise, they are competing against 18-22 kids who are also in elite shape. The fatigue thing isn't about not being able to physically function, it's about being able to outperform the guy in the other jersey and for the most part the differences between you and the other guy are very minimal. So by the logic, even a 5 or 10% reduction in your abilities (speed, stamina, leaping, concentration, etc) could make a very big difference.

 

[two3zone]

I don't have the information or expertise to truly argue your point and this is the same argument that JB makes. But, I will just point out that even if we accept the premise, they are competing against 18-22 kids who are also in elite shape. The fatigue thing isn't about not being able to physically function, it's about being able to outperform the guy in the other jersey and for the most part the differences between you and the other guy are very minimal. So by the logic, even a 5 or 10% reduction in your abilities (speed, stamina, leaping, concentration, etc) could make a very big difference.

I actually agree with you with the 5% to 10% reduction in abilities. I'm willing to wager that our players are probably 10-20% ability wise better than our opposition most nights. Obviously against teams like Duke and other great teams the talent is much closer and our fatigue and reduction of abilities would be more equal.

 

[Orangello]

I don't buy it. These are elite athletes who are at the top of their game. Something has happened to the offense and if I'm, JB that is what I focus on this week. Gotta get fixed with Duke, UVA and FSU coming.

 

[two3zone]

you are discounting the physicality that teams are bringing against them ... play 3 city league games a week and you can feel worn down


I can't imagine the needed ice baths by these guys

I don't disagree, but sitting an extra 3-4 minutes during the Pitt game I really don't think carries over that much towards this game.

 

[dasher]

I've seen it written about 50 times so far and I'm just going to post my thoughts on it because it's obviously a topic of concern with a lot of people on here.

I know these guys are getting a ton of minutes, but come on. We're talking about 18-22 year old kids here who are in elite shape. These guys are in better shape outside of pro basketball players and Olympians. They can handle it. Their bodies can recover extremely fast and if they've made it to this level I'm sure they can handle it. Most of these guys played AAU basketball on top of playing high school basketball so they're actually probably playing less games than they're used to.

One other thing as well, do you think CJ Fair is any more tired today because he played 39 minutes against Pitt instead of 32 or 33 minutes? Give me a break. A difference in a player playing 5 or 6 minutes less a few days before isn't going to have any baring today/tonight.

I know our guys work hard and that a lot is asked from them but these guys are are all in tip top shape. Even if these guys were out drinking last night until 6 am there is no excuse not to beat NC St easily.

You are 100% correct. We play 2 games a week. We are not tired.

 

[two3zone]

I don't buy it. These are elite athletes who are at the top of their game. Something has happened to the offense and if I'm, JB that is what I focus on this week. Gotta get fixed with Duke, UVA and FSU coming.

Just to add onto this because when I read your first sentence it made me think of this.

I think we all can agree that our defense has been great, some would say even better than great. Being in that hellish non stop moving zone that we're in, how is our defense so great if our guys are so fatigued?

 

[SarasotaPaul]

I don't buy it. These are elite athletes who are at the top of their game. Something has happened to the offense and if I'm, JB that is what I focus on this week. Gotta get fixed with Duke, UVA and FSU coming.

Our shooting is way off. That can easily happen with fatigue. The only way to get out of shooting slumps is to shoot your way out. We also took to many early threes. I don't wan anyone but Cooney taking early threes.

 

[mark79]

The mind and the body are linked. I'm sure there is an aspect of mental fatigue from the pressure of 25-0
and being number one that is at play as well. I think their recent sluggish play may also be partly mental fatigue.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

I'll say it- Boeheim is flat out wrong about the fatigue issue.

That being said, if he thinks grinding out games with Fair and co is better than giving guys like Robeson 12-15 minutes, well, he's the coach, and the team is winning.*

*I could give a rat's ass about beating SPITT and NC ST during the regular season. this is a championship calibre team, and cutting down the nets in Arlington is the only thing that matters. I am certain that is Boeheim's goal as well.

 

[two3zone]

The mind and the body are linked. I'm sure there is an aspect of mental fatigue from the pressure of 25-0
and being number one that is at play as well. I think there recent sluggish
play may also be partly mental fatigue.

Without question there is going to be some mental fatigue. I guess the real question would be how much is that an effect?

 

[orangefan13]

CJ had no legs on his jumper today, lost alot of his explosivness as well, go back and watch the duke CJ and its like getting shot out of a cannon. Grant hasn't attacked much off the dribble from the high post in over a month now. He has a pause and a stepback layup when he does drive but he doesn't utilize it enough. He loves to get in position leaning to the basket to get his own board and often times he ends up on the floor for it. I remember the mono thing preseason and wonder what a extra 12 pounds could have done for him this year.

May we never be in a spot to win with defense ever again.

I think a big part of what we saw tonight was a 1-2 pass shoot game in the first half trying to speed the game up. Not so much of that in the second but we still missed alot of jumpers and ennis and fair couldn't drive to the rim succesfully. None of our big four scorers got going today Rak stepped up but it was spread out, I don;t think hes ready to take over the offense like Fair ennis or Cooney can(thats why he will be back next year for sure).

In the end we still won.

 

[Millhouse]

CJ had no legs on his jumper today, lost alot of his explosivness as well, go back and watch the duke CJ and its like getting shot out of a cannon. Grant hasn't attacked much off the dribble from the high post in over a month now. He has no pause when he does or stepback layup its always get in position leaning to the basket to get his own board or on the floor. May we never be in a spot to win with defense ever again. I think a big part of what we saw tonight was a 1-2 pass shoot game in the first half trying to speed the game up. Not so much of that in the second but we still missed alot of jumpers and ennis and fair couldn't drive to the rim succesfully. None of our big four scorers got going today Rak stepped up but never took over the offense like Fair ennis or cj can, And we still won.

he has gotta be sick. He was gassed all day.

 

[HoustonCuse]

JB did say that CJ had no legs today in the post game PC. He also said that he'd still rather have a no legs CJ for 40 minutes than waste 5 minutes on Roberson. He didn't say Robersons name but that is who was talking about.

 

[osullfam]

This thread is mostly discussing carry over fatigue from too many minutes in prior games. To me the bigger concern is too many minutes in the current game. It is not debatable that CJ Fair with 8 minutes rest is better in the final 4 minutes than CJ Fair with no rest. We need Keita back. I'm afraid we will get slaughtered by Duke if we only go 6 deep.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

This thread is mostly discussing carry over fatigue from too many minutes in prior games. To me the bigger concern is too many minutes in the current game. It is not debatable that CJ Fair with 8 minutes rest is better in the final 4 minutes than CJ Fair with no rest. We need Keita back. I'm afraid we will get slaughtered by Duke if we only go 6 deep.

I'm not sure we get slaughtered by Duke but we definitely need Keita back. No question that RAK had a real good game and Jerami had a pretty good game but Cuse needs to have the depth up front. Plus Keita brings a lot of energy.

 

[Orangefanforever]

Agree. Keita brings energy and a mental lift. Guys know there is another body on the bench to turn to...

 

[CorduroyG]

They're humans, not robots. Humans get tired, I don't care how great a shape you're in.