Feelings of Hopelessness for this Program amidst the Gaslighting

[tptcuse]

Part of the problem will be that we haven’t created any die hards the last 10 years. Locals under 20 have never been to a conference game in the Dome where we were ranked. Neither have alumni under 30.

Then you get into chicken and egg. We need NIL $ to be back to where we used to be. But people won’t want to invest in the product until they see results. Which makes it harder to get back to where we used to be.

That is one of the saddest things I have read on this board in a long time.

 

[kcsu]

That is one of the saddest things I have read on this board in a long time.

wow that is an eye opener

 

[kingtidge]

That is one of the saddest things I have read on this board in a long time.

I saw that comment then used ninja mind focus to block it from my mind.

Thx.

 

[PauliePeppas]

Could you ever imagine the bball program looking towards the football program hoping for a similar savior type to save them?

If you told me that 10 years ago, I would have said something terribly wrong happened.

Here we are 10 years later in a position it shouldn't be in.

Twilight zone

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I believe the same.

Given what we've seen, and how bad the KenPom data reveals we are, I'm actually surprised when I see posters express that they aren't sure yet whether or not Red is a good coach, or indicate that they think he just needs more NIL $$$, and all will be fine.

Difficult to reconcile, compared to the product on the court.

Im just going to check out for the next couple years until they regime change. No sense getting frustrated about it.

 

[Red2003]

Im just going to check out for the next couple years until they regime change. No sense getting frustrated about it.

Hah I just had to say that this sounds exactly like something GOB from Arrested Development would say. Better follow through too or people will call you the gaslighter

 

[Sherman20]

The lack of self-awareness from an X and Os standpoint is astonishing from Red in the clip below. I can see where all the long-time posters are now getting their talking points. There is no amount of talent we can bring in that can cover for the lack of our offensive and defensive systems. The fact that some posters seem to just completely overlook this is baffling. I can see by the thread Dasher made that most of you don't watch other teams or other leagues play and it shows that if you think we can just throw some money at this and it will be fine.

On defense, we give up lay-up after lay-up and when the other team gets tired of doing that they start taking open threes you know why they are open? It's not because of talent. It is because they are not coached in proper rotations and are not demanded to give maximum effort on that end of the court. And if they make a mistake there is no consequence just a gosh good try get them next time buddy.

On offense, we have one of the least efficient offenses in the nation because we are one of the only offenses left in the nation that relies on pure isolation most of the time.

You guys are holding onto an old-school style of big East basketball that you guys once loved that just doesn't work anymore in today's modern basketball. The lack of wanting change is concerning, to say the least.

I’m not defending Red. We don’t have an identity on either side of the ball. And for whatever reason he’s not getting these guys to execute at all or play as hard as they can. He’s not good at motivating them. I also fear that he’s simply a poor communicator, which is vital in a leader. That’s what that interview clip shows me.

But this is a false statement:
“On offense, we have one of the least efficient offenses in the nation because we are one of the only offenses left in the nation that relies on pure isolation most of the time.”

People need to stop implying that we run a pure isolation offense. We don’t. I don’t know where you get that from. Yes, we do run some isolation for JJ, who can take his man off the dribble, but not as much as we did for, say, Tyus Battle. And we isolate Jyare back to the basket on the wing so he can work his man into the post. But watch the Miami game again. We run off-ball screening actions regularly (flare screens, brush screens, wheel routes, horns set, high-low post ups, dribble hand offs), plus high ball screens. I also saw more decisive cuts to the hoop off of screens in the Miami game. Is it particularly creative or well executed? No it isn’t. Actually, against Miami, the offense was less of an issue than the atrocious defense. We cannot defend a pick and roll to save our life. But lots of teams run similar offensive actions as we do and have success with it. The problem lies with execution. And then when we run some sets and we meet resistance or it doesn’t work, the offense tends to break down and that’s when players resort to freelancing or iso ball. But we do not run a “pure iso offense.”

 

[wiCuse]

I also think we need to look at this from a non-basketball perspective. Many of us are in management positions, thus have hiring and budgets to work within. We're not on even playing fields with other organizations. However, that is seldom an excuse. We either meet, exceed or not attain our goals. We're always looking for growth and opportunities. This has been void in the Autry coaching era. In addition, as many have mentioned, there is no identifiable culture, philosophy or clear vision. None of us would continue on this path with a leader in our organization. The sooner you can cut bait the better.

Some have mentioned that Red was not given the proper tools to be prepared for NIL and the portal. That is most concerning as it's a systematic failure within the athletic department. Regardless, this should not give Red a pass on his inability to lead or coach.

 

[RF2044]

I also think we need to look at this from a non-basketball perspective. Many of us are in management positions, thus have hiring and budgets to work within. We're not on even playing fields with other organizations. However, that is seldom an excuse. We either meet, exceed or not attain our goals. We're always looking for growth and opportunities. This has been void in the Autry coaching era. In addition, as many have mentioned, there is no identifiable culture, philosophy or clear vision. None of us would continue on this path with a leader in our organization. The sooner you can cut bait the better.

Some have mentioned that Red was not given the proper tools to be prepared for NIL and the portal. That is most concerning as it's a systematic failure within the athletic department. Regardless, this should not give Red a pass on his inability to lead or coach.

Zero identity on either side of the ball.

Poor grasp of in-game X's and O's / substitution patterns.

Tenuous command of the locker room.

Incredibly poor team defense.

Alarming number of blowout losses.

As you put it, systemic failure. People pointing to NIL [which admittedly, could be one of many issues associated with our basketball program] as the root cause of our deficiencies are missing the bigger picture. Namely, that our head coach doesn't have the chops and is unqualified for the demands of the performance-based job.

 

[rrlbees]

Some have mentioned that Red was not given the proper tools to be prepared for NIL and the portal. That is most concerning as it's a systematic failure within the athletic department.

Red was given his NIL budget request plus some from the collectives (not the AD).

 

[orangecuse]

I believe the same.

Given what we've seen, and how bad the KenPom data reveals we are, I'm actually surprised when I see posters express that they aren't sure yet whether or not Red is a good coach, or indicate that they think he just needs more NIL $$$, and all will be fine.

Difficult to reconcile, compared to the product on the court.

I'll be less diplomatic than your 'surprised' sentiment and quote this saying; 'there's no longer any excuse for ignorance.' Especially, nowadays when there is so much data, info., etc. at everyone's fingertips, let alone those two things between one's eyes.

 

[OmahaCuse]

I think the evidence DOES show that the early positivity isn't necessarily supported by the results.

Transfers:

• JJ -- very good
• Westry -- injured, zero impact
• McLeod -- injured, negligible impact
• Carlos -- limited impact
• Taylor -- decent value, for the NIL money
• Davis -- decent value, for the NIL money
• Lampkin -- solid production, glaring limitations, not good value for the NIL money

High school:

• Freeman -- good talent, injured, didn't help the team's struggles against lower OOC opponents
• Anthony -- exciting, but probably not a program changer
• White -- exciting, but has offensive limitations / probably not a program changer
• Fennell -- exciting, but readiness TBD [and a big risk to hand the PG role to him and him alone next year]
• Womack -- love his potential, but probably a year away from being a year away

So... not much bang for the buck on either front. I don't think recruiting can be viewed as a negative necessarily, but it also can't be viewed as a strength. The results just aren't there.

This is spot on. Would add Cuffe as decent value, for the money. The reality is we need a war chest of NIL to get immediate impact players. If we add an elite C and PG, it will cost at 2.5-3M which is more than our current budget.

 

[phil77]

This is spot on. Would add Cuffe as decent value, for the money. The reality is we need a war chest of NIL to get immediate impact players. If we add an elite C and PG, it will cost at 2.5-3M which is more than our current budget.

Why would an elite immediate impact player pick Syracuse of all places? We are never going to be in a place to massively overbid for the top talent as we will be up against the SEC for those players. So lets say for certain elite players we can get close why would they pick Syracuse?

-We are a lower-end ACC team that will be coming off a losing record
-Our "brand" has been on a serious decline haven't made the tournament in half a decade
-We haven't had a player drafted into the NBA in over a decade
-Our coach doesn't look like he really knows what he is doing and looks like he will not be here past next year.
-ACC is down compared to SEC, BIG 12 and BIG 10
-We are CW's team

Why would an elite-level player ever choose to come here? They will have so many other option? The players we will be looking at are the level of Eddie Lampkin. Who are P4 level talented players but with clear flaws that are not NBA material and looking for the highest pay day they can get. Those are the type of P4 players we will be looking for and then those players have to value money over winning. Otherwise, we will be looking at lower-level hidden gem types and hoping Kline is better than Red and finding talent.

 

[DonutHole]

I don't believe in many absolutes in this world. Almost everything is and should be up for discussion or consideration.

• Fans that shout from social media that Adrian Autry absolutely cannot get the job done and 100% should be fired are extreme. And that is a non-productive stance to take.
• Fans (and apparently administrators) that take the position that Adrian Autry absolutely cannot be fired and 100% must be given the job next year? That's wrong too.

Why are so many so damm entrenched, so unable to have a real, level-headed discussion of the pros and the cons of making a change? I hear so many people calling into radio sounding like their best friend has died, saying this is the worst they have seen this program in 50+ years, saying they have no interest any more, and then saying "We have to give him one more year". Its gaslighting to the Nth degree. No we don't. Maybe we should. Maybe that's where we land after a discussion of all options. But NOTHING is entitled in this world, especially when it comes along with offensive and defensive schemes that look dusted off from the days of underhanded free throws. Nothing innovative is happening under Autry. It's awful. We lose to bad teams, and get destroyed by good ones.

I believe Autry is likely in way over his head and like Jerod Mayo, the beloved but unqualified former Patriots coach, likely needs to be relieved of his duties. That's not an absolute, but I feel confident enough about it that I believe it needs serious consideration.

But that said, I'm not even saying a change MUST be made. But I'm so tired of this defeatist attitude that we have NO choice but to eat one more season of terrible basketball, taking us one season farther from competitiveness.

I saw a social post that was a mind fark. It said that this current graduating class will have NEVER seen this team in a Tourney. That's INSANE. We need to do everything to make sure next year's doesn't suffer the same fate. That may include Autry and this staff, if may not. But ALL OPTIONS need to be considered at the highest levels.

There has GOT to be a way to save the incoming class without sacrificing the future of the program. Isn't it worth even trying?

It just feels so hopeless.

If we had good 3 point shooting we could have closed out a few more wins. I thought we played OK against NC and kept the score close.

 

[OmahaCuse]

I’m not defending Red. We don’t have an identity on either side of the ball. And for whatever reason he’s not getting these guys to execute at all or play as hard as they can. He’s not good at motivating them. I also fear that he’s simply a poor communicator, which is vital in a leader. That’s what that interview clip shows me.

But this is a false statement:
“On offense, we have one of the least efficient offenses in the nation because we are one of the only offenses left in the nation that relies on pure isolation most of the time.”

People need to stop implying that we run a pure isolation offense. We don’t. I don’t know where you get that from. Yes, we do run some isolation for JJ, who can take his man off the dribble, but not as much as we did for, say, Tyus Battle. And we isolate Jyare back to the basket on the wing so he can work his man into the post. But watch the Miami game again. We run off-ball screening actions regularly (flare screens, brush screens, wheel routes, horns set, high-low post ups, dribble hand offs), plus high ball screens. I also saw more decisive cuts to the hoop off of screens in the Miami game. Is it particularly creative or well executed? No it isn’t. Actually, against Miami, the offense was less of an issue than the atrocious defense. We cannot defend a pick and roll to save our life. But lots of teams run similar offensive actions as we do and have success with it. The problem lies with execution. And then when we run some sets and we meet resistance or it doesn’t work, the offense tends to break down and that’s when players resort to freelancing or iso ball. But we do not run a “pure iso offense.”

I don’t think it’s a matter of trying hard, or communication. I think it’s a 100% talent issue. We have a decent rebounding team but have the following challenges. Poor shooting team from 3, poor FT shooting team, poor at blocking shots, poor at getting steals, poor at getting deflections, poor at driving to the basket outside of 1 guy, poor at ball handling outside of 1 guy. Bell is a very good shooter, when he is set and open otherwise sub par at defense, rebounding, passing and dribbling, occasionally he will block a shot from behind after turning it over. Cuffe plays hard but is limited in size, has a poor handle, is not a good passer and sub par shooter.

I could go on about each player but each one is limited in some way as everyone knows. I think the coaching is sub par in part because they are struggling to find a solution with all the missing parts. Losing Leffew, Freeman, Westry (we think), Brown, Mintz and maybe Copeland killed us. I would take Benny back for his athleticism, blocked shots, despite him being a headcase. He is not doing much at UCF. Bottom line is we have missed on most recruits, lost the good ones for various reasons. Roster management, raising capital and keeping your best players is all on the coach staff. It’s no longer 100% about development and high school recruiting only and why many of the elite coaches have hung it up. New game better adapt.

 

[AlaskaSU]

No, mostly just the argument that you "need to give more than 2 years for optics" type arguments.

I've lost interest for this year but I'd like to see how Red does next year before making a decision.

 

[JeffCuse]

If we had good 3 point shooting we could have closed out a few more wins. I thought we played OK against NC and kept the score close.

 

[JeffCuse]

I've lost interest for this year but I'd like to see how Red does next year before making a decision.

Whats another year? Dead is already dead right?

 

[Irishsecra1]

We have no defense.
None.
Defense does not rely on talent, unlike offense.
It requires a good scheme, and hard work from the players.
They need to be scrappy and never give up.
That describes Taylor and Cuffe,
Thats it.

 

[kcsu]

We dont have the athletes to compete. Its that simple.

IF and a BIG IF Chance JJ Donnie had been good from the jump we might have had a shot at a decent year.
John Wooden head coach. Assistants Phil Jackson, JB, Coach K, Tony Bennet wouldn't have made the dance with this group. Seriously. Cuffe and Carlos at G, Bell and Taylor at the 3, Davis and Petar the 4. Forget it not a chance. I'm not saying we wouldn't have won a few more games and played better but all the coaching in the world isn't going to turn these guys into a tournament basketball team.

 

[pwong]

I think the evidence DOES show that the early positivity isn't necessarily supported by the results.

Transfers:

• JJ -- very good
• Westry -- injured, zero impact
• McLeod -- injured, negligible impact
• Carlos -- limited impact
• Taylor -- decent value, for the NIL money
• Davis -- decent value, for the NIL money
• Lampkin -- solid production, glaring limitations, not good value for the NIL money

High school:

• Freeman -- good talent, injured, didn't help the team's struggles against lower OOC opponents
• Anthony -- exciting, but probably not a program changer
• White -- exciting, but has offensive limitations / probably not a program changer
• Fennell -- exciting, but readiness TBD [and a big risk to hand the PG role to him and him alone next year]
• Womack -- love his potential, but probably a year away from being a year away

So... not much bang for the buck on either front. I don't think recruiting can be viewed as a negative necessarily, but it also can't be viewed as a strength. The results just aren't there.

I still don’t think JJ is a very good player… building around an inefficient scorer who doesn’t make others better and isn’t a net positive on defense isn’t a great strategy imo.

 

[phil77]

We dont have the athletes to compete. Its that simple.

IF and a BIG IF Chance JJ Donnie had been good from the jump we might have had a shot at a decent year.
John Wooden head coach. Assistants Phil Jackson, JB, Coach K, Tony Bennet wouldn't have made the dance with this group. Seriously. Cuffe and Carlos at G, Bell and Taylor at the 3, Davis and Petar the 4. Forget it not a chance. I'm not saying we wouldn't have won a few more games and played better but all the coaching in the world isn't going to turn these guys into a tournament basketball team.

So in summary --

Our coach ---

Can't identify talent
Can't coach Xs and Os
Can't coach up lesser talent
Can't develop kids
Can't in-game coach with rotation
Can't figure out late-game strategy on the fly

What is one aspect of coaching Red does well??

 

[RF2044]

We dont have the athletes to compete. Its that simple.

IF and a BIG IF Chance JJ Donnie had been good from the jump we might have had a shot at a decent year.
John Wooden head coach. Assistants Phil Jackson, JB, Coach K, Tony Bennet wouldn't have made the dance with this group. Seriously. Cuffe and Carlos at G, Bell and Taylor at the 3, Davis and Petar the 4. Forget it not a chance. I'm not saying we wouldn't have won a few more games and played better but all the coaching in the world isn't going to turn these guys into a tournament basketball team.

This is like a master class in delusion.

We are having a historically bad season, perhaps the worst since the 1960s, and you're just chalking it up to talent?

This team has SYSTEMIC, foundational issues -- mainly predicated upon the coaching staff being incredibly poor.

You keep repeating this nonsense -- and that's what it is, nonsense -- about a good coach not making a difference, but continually repeating something false doesn't make it true. The reality is that a good coach would have an IDENTITY that the team is built around. A good coach would have functional systems on BOTH sides of the ball, and not be a turnstyle defensively that allows even poor teams to tee off on us and have career days. A good coach would help the players improve instead of regress, and hold them accountable when they don't put forth sufficient effort. A good coach would do a better job identifying and landing good system fits -- such that the portal would be to supplement a strong foundational nucleus, instead of having to rely on having to bring in multiple portal transfers to fill gaping holes. And a good coach would take this exact same group of players, and have them playing at a higher level than Red has.

There are plenty of coaches out there who know what they are doing, and would coach this exact same group of players to a higher level of production. But Red isn't one of them, because he isn't good enough to be a P4 head coach.

I get that you have a difficult time acknowledging that, but my god -- it's time to stop pretending and focusing on symptoms of problems instead of the actual problem.

We aren't just having a down year, we are HISTORICALLY BAD. KenPom substantiates how bad we actually are. So does NET. And so do the game results. I mean... my god, we barely survived against Le Moyne Colege in the opener. Youngstown State took us to double overtime, a couple of days after losing to middling Ohio State by nearly 40. BC, the second worst team in the conference, took us to TRIPLE overtime, and had a 7 point lead in the 2OT before running out of gas. We lost to Miami, the worst team in the conference.

It is beyond belief how bad we are -- we are literally one of the worst power conference teams, dangerously close to not even making the cut for the ACC tournament, let alone the NCAA postseason tournament. And people think that a couple of portal additions are going to help turn Red into a competent coach? First of all, they won't -- because he's underqualified. Second, who exactly are we going to land? Good / great portal transfers have a lot of suitors, and want to win. Any difference making transfer will take a look at our program, and our coach being subpar, and elect to go elsewhere.

Just like Freeman and his camp are likely to do this offseason, having seen for themselves that this coaching staff has ruined their kid's draft stock, so that the "damage" can be offset by a coach who knows what the hell they are doing.

Time to dispense with the nonsense, and recognize how bad things are. And I'm no doom and gloomer -- the data doesn't lie: see KenPom and NET.

 

[Fly Rodder]

This is like a master class in delusion.

We are having a historically bad season, perhaps the worst since the 1960s, and you're just chalking it up to talent?

This team has SYSTEMIC, foundational issues -- mainly predicated upon the coaching staff being incredibly poor.

You keep repeating this nonsense -- and that's what it is, nonsense -- about a good coach not making a difference, but continually repeating something false doesn't make it true. The reality is that a good coach would have an IDENTITY that the team is built around. A good coach would have functional systems on BOTH sides of the ball, and not be a turnstyle defensively that allows even poor teams to tee off on us and have career days. A good coach would help the players improve instead of regress, and hold them accountable when they don't put forth sufficient effort. And a good coach would do a better job identifying and landing good system fits -- such that the portal would be to supplement a strong foundational nucleus, instead of having to rely on having to bring in multiple portal transfers to fill gaping holes.

There are plenty of coaches out there who know what they are doing, and would coach this exact same group of players to a higher level of production. But Red isn't one of them, because he isn't good enough to be a P4 head coach.

I get that you have a difficult time acknowledging that, but my god -- it's time to stop pretending and focusing on symptoms of problems instead of the actual problem.

We aren't just having a down year, we are HISTORICALLY BAD. KenPom substantiates how bad we actually are. So does NET.

It is beyond belief how bad we are -- we are literally one of the worst power conference teams. And people think that a couple of portal additions are going to help turn Red into a competent coach? First of all, they won't -- because he's underqualified. Second, who exactly are we going to land? Good / great portal transfers have a lot of suitors, and want to win. And difference making transfer will take a look at our program, and our coach being subpar, and elect to go elsewhere.

Just like Freeman and his camp are likely to do this offseason, having seen for themselves that this coaching staff has ruined their kid's draft stock.

Time to dispense with the nonsense, and recognize how bad things are. And I'm no doom and gloomer -- the data doesn't lie: see KenPom and NET.

There are about 2,500 D1 basketball players who are “almost there” and coulda shoulda woulda been difference makers. The excuses some posters are making about talent and SU players can be said for any other mediocre to bad team.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Which I would get if he was an external hire, but he was an internal hire. Optically this is different than if we would’ve fired Dino after his second season because we didn’t make a bowl either year. And we had strong signals that we improved from 2016 to 2017 as a program even though the record didn’t show it. It’s just I think most of the coaching world wouldn’t care if we decided to abandon ship on the keep in the family coaching succession strategy after a trial period of a few seasons.

I agree with you, but I want to reinforce Optics literally do not matter as some here tend to claim they do. Coaches get fired all the time after losing season and people that care about why they got fired think about it for 24 hours then quickly move on. Then almost every single school is able to conduct a coaching search and hire a talented coach. There’s no blight or stigma attached to the program because the prior coach got fired. Coaching is all about performance. If you don’t perform at a high level you get fired. There’s always another coach waiting for their chance to be a head coach because they believe they will be successful once they have their chance. There’s only 360+- D1 coaching positions and less than 70 at high major programs. That’s not a lot of opportunity for those waiting for their shot. Really less than 10 positions a year and probably 50 or so qualified coaches fighting to for those positions.

Fire Red. There’s 50 guys better than him that could potentially take over and would love a shot. Almost every single option would be better than Red. He was the wrong choice all in the name of continuity on a program that’s was on a downward trajectory. Well, the school got what they wanted with continuity.