Few Thoughts and theories on recent stuff

[Cusefan0307]

My point was that neither Brown nor Taylor even see the floor their freshman year back when we had much more talent in the program. I like both of them, and I think they could be good contributors some day. But we've had a lot of Browns and Taylors in this program going back decades, and it's likely that few of them ever got the minutes they have this season. And that's part of our problem.

I don’t agree with this. Players like both of them have got plenty of minutes on good teams. Statistically Browns freshmen year is right on par with CJ Fair and better than Rick Jackson. It’s kind of weird the board continuously downplays how good he’s been.

Taylor’s per 40 minute stats are right on par with Brandon Triche and he’s shooting 44% from 3.

They are both the type of player that go to UVA for 4 years and absolutely kill us.

 

[Madbiker]

Ever since the Paul P fiasco the AD and BOT is probably scared to death to remove a coach that has had success (even if not recently) to make a change. What is happening at Louisville this year probably reinforces that feeling.

 

[Scooch]

I don’t agree with this. Players like both of them have got plenty of minutes on good teams. Statistically Browns freshmen year is right on par with CJ Fair and better than Rick Jackson. It’s kind of weird the board continuously downplays how good he’s been.

Taylor’s per 40 minute stats are right on par with Brandon Triche and he’s shooting 44% from 3.

They are both the type of player that go to UVA for 4 years and absolutely kill us.

I get it. I'll just note that freshman CJ Fair was in a rotation behind Jr. Kris Joseph (one of the most underrated SU players ever IMHO) and Sr. Rick Jackson (who was a 13 & 10 guy that season).

So to me, Fair was in a position to succeed because his quality freshman minutes were additive to starting Fs who were among the best in the game that season.

Brown's #s are comparable to Fairs, but he's being asked to be a starter now. And he's not producing comparably to Joseph/Jackson. He shouldn't be, that's not fair to him, but it's a sign of where we are as a program that he's being asked to.

Again, I like Brown a lot.

 

[OHIORANGES]

Dino cant hold Jims sack

Doubt he would want to

 

[althea]

I get it. I'll just note that freshman CJ Fair was in a rotation behind Jr. Kris Joseph (one of the most underrated SU players ever IMHO) and Sr. Rick Jackson (who was a 13 & 10 guy that season).

So to me, Fair was in a position to succeed because his quality freshman minutes were additive to starting Fs who were among the best in the game that season.

Brown's #s are comparable to Fairs, but he's being asked to be a starter now. And he's not producing comparably to Joseph/Jackson. He shouldn't be, that's not fair to him, but it's a sign of where we are as a program that he's being asked to.

Again, I like Brown a lot.

It's an entirely different game than it was even 10 years ago - freshman have to play or they will leave. They may leave anyways - even if they are playing.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Man we are pathetic. Hima is avg 1 pt and 2 boards a game as a Soph on a bad, not even bubble Cuse team and some people are calling him a steal in the portal lol. Our standards have went down the shitter so bad for so long now that we have barely even noticed it happen.

In Mt. Hima's defense, he is a serviceable back-up center.
A 7-footer who can be a rim protector and defend.
He's not there to score.
The Orange are a lot better off having him than having to pull a guy like Marek to be an out of position center.

There are other far better examples of how SU basketball standards have faded.
Tops on the list is how many of us no longer expect to win every game.
It's understandable.
But a reflection of a pathetic decline.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

In Mt. Hima's defense, he is a serviceable back-up center.
A 7-footer who can be a rim protector and defend.
He's not there to score.
The Orange are a lot better off having him than having to pull a guy like Marek to be an out of position center.

There are other far better examples of how SU basketball standards have faded.
Tops on the list is how many of us no longer expect to win every game.
It's understandable.
But a reflection of a pathetic decline.

He’d foul out of every game without someone like Jesse already there.

 

[Scooch]

It's an entirely different game than it was even 10 years ago - freshman have to play or they will leave. They may leave anyways - even if they are playing.

I don't disagree.

Then we need better freshman.

 

[Bayside44]

It's an entirely different game than it was even 10 years ago - freshman have to play or they will leave. They may leave anyways - even if they are playing.

Yeah - I think the point is (and I think we agree) is that SU brought developmental weak side forwards along - Hak, Fair, KJ, etc etc as guys who did the dirty work, made the boss happy, and then became the man as time went on.

Maliq is being asked to go from a freshman to practically a junior in productivity in a couple of months.

 

[jgeorge322]

I doubt wildhack is worried about job security. Pretty sure he is highly employable. I dont think he does this job for money. I think he wants to help the university. So the third point imo is way off base.

 

[swish7]

Gotta disagree here. Jimmy has earned the right to be retired respectfully, not to stay as long as he wants.

I am sure any search committee for a new coach would be looking for input from Jimmy, but there is no point in Jimmy’s retiring if the successor is totally inbred to the program.

clearly change is needed unless the goal is perpetual mediocrity.

The basic fact is that the game has evolved both on the court and off the court in terms of recruiting.

Unless a successor is able to embrace those changes we will remain stuck in the mud of past glories.

Being run out of town by Pat Forde, a Newhouse freshman asking about Benny Williams and other local media is not a respectful retirement.

Retiring respectfully is letting him retire on his time, which by all signals is fairly soon anyway.

People want to toss Autry and Gmac too? Blow the whole thing up? For what? We suddenly trust Wildhack's judgment now? Unless its Mark Few or someone of that ilk, let the process play out.

JB is probably done in a year anyway. He has always said he would leave when it was no longer fun. Doesn't seem fun anymore does it? I'd guess he is as close to thinking about it as he has ever been.

If Jesse & Mintz return, next year could be pretty solid.

Not sure if its realistic anymore or not, but I want him to go out on a high note. Not back to back 17 losses seasons.

I wish he had done it after that last Sweet 16. It would have been good for his boys to be coached by someone else.

If he wants a farewell tour, or one or two more chances, let him have it. If he wants 4 more years or a shot at coach K's record, then, yeah, I would rethink my position.

The team is competitive, just not closing games. Next year, if Mintz returns, and we get a suitable replacement for Jesse, they might be better at closing games.

The upside to him going out on a high note and on good terms is way more worth it to me, then sending him off to pasture because he is mean at pressers, and hoping someone can come in right away and return us to 87, instantly. The only coach who could do that would have to be as corrupt as they come. Ain't no way its happening on the up and up.

 

[althea]

Yeah - I think the point is (and I think we agree) is that SU brought developmental weak side forwards along - Hak, Fair, KJ, etc etc as guys who did the dirty work, made the boss happy, and then became the man as time went on.

Maliq is being asked to go from a freshman to practically a junior in productivity in a couple of months.

Yeah, I agree. Also I don’t think having 3 forwards transfer out in the last 2 years helped the process. Oh well.

 

[Tango32]

Being run out of town by Pat Forde, a Newhouse freshman asking about Benny Williams and other local media is not a respectful retirement.

Retiring respectfully is letting him retire on his time, which by all signals is fairly soon anyway.

People want to toss Autry and Gmac too? Blow the whole thing up? For what? We suddenly trust Wildhack's judgment now? Unless its Mark Few or someone of that ilk, let the process play out.

JB is probably done in a year anyway. He has always said he would leave when it was no longer fun. Doesn't seem fun anymore does it? I'd guess he is as close to thinking about it as he has ever been.

If Jesse & Mintz return, next year could be pretty solid.

Not sure if its realistic anymore or not, but I want him to go out on a high note. Not back to back 17 losses seasons.

I wish he had done it after that last Sweet 16. It would have been good for his boys to be coached by someone else.

If he wants a farewell tour, or one or two more chances, let him have it. If he wants 4 more years or a shot at coach K's record, then, yeah, I would rethink my position.

The team is competitive, just not closing games. Next year, if Mintz returns, and we get a suitable replacement for Jesse, they might be better at closing games.

The upside to him going out on a high note and on good terms is way more worth it to me, then sending him off to pasture because he is mean at pressers, and hoping someone can come in right away and return us to 87, instantly. The only coach who could do that would have to be as corrupt as they come. Ain't no way its happening on the up and up.

Hes running himself out of town, no one is making these comments for him... or losing these games... or recruiting battles...

He doesn't own the univerity or the team, he doesn't get to leave whenever he pleases, even though he said as much. Hes been compensated for his work, hes had the court named after him, he's had the fun of coaching his kids at the expense of the programs trajectory. At this point he's emptied the cookie jar there is nothing left that is owed to him that he's earned.

We have no recruits for next year, likely loosing Joe, and Jesse's progression has flattened, I see nothing that suggests we will be any different a team than we were last year or this year unless there is major change.

If he wants a farwell tour by all means he should drop that at the next presser and enjoy the rest of the season.

You can wish all you want, hes made some bad choices and is paying the piper, way more likely than not he can't go out on a high note at this point unless something bigly unforseen happens.

For the love of god its time.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Well said. JB can stay for as long as he wants IMO. He has earned it.

Definitely unfortunate that the year both his sons were on the team, the team results were historically bad. Then Buddy gets suspended. Not a great look.

Unfortunate that we have pretty much sucked our whole ACC tenure, averaging something like 13/14 losses a season and well on our way to another of those.

But, after 47 years, he has earned it. He should leave when he wants, and even have a 'say' in his replacement. The stones, fire and pitchforks is not a good look for the community and media.

Seems like he is ready to go. He bought that place in Skanaetles. I assume he is hoping for one more tourney run. If Mintz and Edwards return, they have a good chance.

JB is culpable for the swoon with his son(s)...that's still lingering...he was willing to put family first...over winning...which NO COACH in basically any sport is allowed to do unscathed...pretty sure thats a big reason for all of the transfers during the Buddy era (spoken or unspoken) fwiw

So "unfortunate" is not exactly how I would word it, personally...it wasnt luck or random...it was pre-meditated.

But I sill agree...that on the balance...he should still be allowed to go out on his terms...considering everything that he has done in his career...it's going to be a sad day when he is no longer on the sidelines for the Orange. I think all true fans...even the ones who want him gone with a passion...will feel that once it hits.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Retiring respectfully is letting him retire on his time, which by all signals is fairly soon anyway.

That was after 2016. And then after 2022. He's been allowed the opportunity twice now. He shouldn't get a third based on the program performance and expectations.