Finebaum on 2019

[OttoinGrotto]

Clemson was lined up in a regular defense for the most part.

Greg Robinson himself may have even called a timeout there.

It reminded me of the end of Miracle when the Soviet coach doesn't pull the goalie, and the Herb Brooks line was "he doesn't know what to do". Saban was in unfamiliar territory.

I had the same thought, and actually thought of the same movie reference.

 

[sufandu]

In the discussion about Alabama's offense, a lot is being lost in the part about whether or not it is a tempo offense. The original question was whether it is archaic or modern. It can be modern without being tempo. From what I saw this year and from the numbers mentioned above, it certainly seemed like a modern offense to me. Let's give credit to Clemson's defense. They shut down a very good offense.

The comment made about them needing to modernize or they'll be watching the playoff is misguided too. They're an elite team. Saying they won't be back because they just lost to the best team in the country is silly.

 

[timkay99]

College Football Stats - College FB Team Plays per Game on TeamRankings.com

Alabama is listed at 87th in plays per game. I would not consider them anywhere close to playing at tempo. If you want to change the discussion and talk about points per play or something else, fine. The Syracuse coaching staff measures it's tempo by plays per game. I believe all schools use this as their temp metric.

That is fine. As we got deeper, I lost track of where my argument was going and ended up comparing them tempo-wise to Oklahoma, as you mentioned them as someone Bama needs to emulate.

Based on the numbers, you are correct and I was wrong, Alabama did not play at tempo.

My eyes tell me they play at tempo (watched them play parts of 7 games this year), but I do not have numbers to back them up. I would be fascinated to see their 1st half vs. 2nd half plays per minute, or plays per game while the margin is close.

 

[wfschrec]

While I agree, the SEC is better, it is NOT at the gap that the national media makes it out to be. SEC has a stronger second team in UGA, but after that the rest of the SEC is very similar to the ACC. I couldn't say for sure that Florida would have ran Syracuse out of the gym. There is a TON of garbage offenses in the SEC that allow people with spread offenses in the game for the most part. Texas AM will move up to the next level IMO because Jimbo is a championship type coach that can recruit. Florida maybe, I think that Mullen is a great offensive mind, but I am not sure he can recruit to a level that makes them elite. The SEC west is the best division in football, but the ACC Atlantic is not very far behind IMO.

Um did you see what A&M did to NC State ... far from similar top to bottom.

 

[bcubs9497]

In reality, Clemson had it easy in the ACC except for one game. Us.

The ACC is not the SEC.

You're right. But, the SEC isn't the end-all of conferences. Ole Miss, Miss State, Vandy, Tennessee, South Carolina, Auburn, and Arkansas didn't exactly impress a helluva lot this year.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Lol wow. Seems like a scorching take for an offense that was dominant most of the year and had more total yards of offense than Clemson before Clemson's final drive. Last night they moved the ball pretty well on Clemson and ran the ball rather easily. Problem was 3-4 empty red zone possessions and 2 turnovers, of course along with playing from behind that puts you in rather predictable play calls late.

Bama's offense wasn't the biggest problem last night. They got smoked because of defensive breakdown after defesive breakdown in their secondary which plagued them all season long. And Clemson being the great team they are made them pay every single time for huge plays.

Another significant factor was coaching hubris like going on 4th down in their own territory or close to
it, fake punt with over 10 yards to go. BTW, Clemson has awesome receivers, offensive line and 1/4 back.

 

[chugg21]

You're right. But, the SEC isn't the end-all of conferences. Ole Miss, Miss State, Vandy, Tennessee, South Carolina, Auburn, and Arkansas didn't exactly impress a helluva lot this year.

Was having this argument with a friend last night. SEC might not be what it is represented to be. But no other conference is close. Pac 12 is pretty much a joke but managed to have 2 teams finish in the top 13 and no others. ACC had 2 in the top 15 and no others. Big 12 had 2 in top 9 and then WV at 22. Big 10 had 4 in the top 25. Then the SEC has 5 of the top 11 and another in the top 25 and this was considered somewhat of a down year.

 

[sufandu]

College Football Stats - College FB Team Plays per Game on TeamRankings.com

Alabama is listed at 87th in plays per game. I would not consider them anywhere close to playing at tempo. If you want to change the discussion and talk about points per play or something else, fine. The Syracuse coaching staff measures it's tempo by plays per game. I believe all schools use this as their temp metric.

Millhouse explained earlier that plays per game is a poor metric of tempo with teams that acore quickly.

Does a team have to play at a high tempo to be modern?

 

[Alsacs]

Was having this argument with a friend last night. SEC might not be what it is represented to be. But no other conference is close. Pac 12 is pretty much a joke but managed to have 2 teams finish in the top 13 and no others. ACC had 2 in the top 15 and no others. Big 12 had 2 in top 9 and then WV at 22. Big 10 had 4 in the top 25. Then the SEC has 5 of the top 11 and another in the top 25 and this was considered somewhat of a down year.

It’s a joke how SEC teams don’t get dinged for losses. That is part of the problem.
SEC is the best conference but they get the benefit of the doubt from the pollsters.

 

[Horn88]

Another significant factor was coaching hubris like going on 4th down in their own territory or close to
it. BTW, Clemson has awesome receivers, offensive line and 1/4 back.

I didn't mind that decision tbh. Bama proved they could run on Clemson and Saban didn't trust his defense and knew he'd have to outscore Clemson. Also, Bama's punter has been atrocious this year so no guarantee you even get that much of a field position flip.

I think barring injury next year we see these two again in the championship. Bama returns 9 starters on offense and 8 on defense plus will get 2-3 very high impact guys back from injury who they lost early this season on defense with Terrell Lewis who Bama thinks will be a lock top of the 1st round pick and Diggs at CB who would have been playing over Smith that was awful last night.

I actually ironically see some parrallels between Bama this year and what Clemson may look like next year. After Tua's debut against UGA everyone thought wow you have Tua and all these weapons on offense back they'll be unstoppable and will score enough to offset the impact of losing 8 starters on defense. This morning it's, Lawrence and that offense will be unstoppable and offset the loss of those Clemson defenders. My guess is Clemson puts on a show on offense next year.

 

[longislandcuse]

His show is pathetic right now.

Clemson has great coaching, BUT Saban had a bad night.

Clemson has great players, BUT Bama’s are better.

Maybe it’s the coaching...yea, YEA, that’s the ticket!! Saban has had too much coaching turnover while Dabo never has any. Yup, that’s it! We’ve found our excuse, hurrah!!!

Then they had the typical drunk Bama hillbilly slurring his speech and blaming the loss on the fact Clemson got ND and Bama had to expend energy against Oklahoma.

Ive got his show on at the office and we are all dying right now.

 

[Hoo's That]

It should help but instead Finebaum says Clemson gets a free pass to the playoffs so the solution should be more SEC roadblocks for them.
Which is a stupid argument and why Finebaum/SEC perception of themselves needs to be pushed back against.
Florida/South Carolina/Ole Miss/Mississippi State are not roadblocks. They are just like teams in the ACC.

As was proved by a ne'er-do-well from the lowly, bedraggled worst division of the P5.

 

[longislandcuse]

Was having this argument with a friend last night. SEC might not be what it is represented to be. But no other conference is close. Pac 12 is pretty much a joke but managed to have 2 teams finish in the top 13 and no others. ACC had 2 in the top 15 and no others. Big 12 had 2 in top 9 and then WV at 22. Big 10 had 4 in the top 25. Then the SEC has 5 of the top 11 and another in the top 25 and this was considered somewhat of a down year.

CFB perspective is all about your top teams.

SEC teams after Bama/UGA are similar to ACC teams after Clemson.

Only difference is they have Bama and UGA. We just have Clemson.

Put ND as a full member in the Coastal and conferences become quite similar. (Although the SEC is still better until Miami/FSU get their ish together)

 

[Doc5120]

Change the scheme. Spread the field. Run tempo. Do the things programs like Clemson, Oklahoma and Syracuse are doing.

Bama can score 45 most games playing against SEC schools and their weak OOC schedule with their current approach given their overwhelming talent. It doesn't work as well against a defense equally as talented.

There are better options out there.

I can't argue with that. They're one of the few teams that has NFL talent basically everywhere, so just about whatever they want to do, they can. As you noted, it will work against almost anybody. Clemson may be the exception to the rule.

I was surprised at last night's outcome. It's not like that has happened to Bama anytime recently. If I were a betting man, I'd say we'll see them in the playoff next year, again, unfortunately.

 

[longislandcuse]

I can't argue with that. They're one of the few teams that has NFL talent basically everywhere, so just about whatever they want to do, they can. As you noted, it will work against almost anybody. Clemson may be the exception to the rule.

I was surprised at last night's outcome. It's not like that has happened to Bama anytime recently. If I were a betting man, I'd say we'll see them in the playoff next year, again, unfortunately.

Shocked if we don’t see Clemson vs Bama, again, in the Championship Game.

 

[TexanMark]

In reality, Clemson had it easy in the ACC except for one game. Us.

The ACC is not the SEC.

Actually TAMU gave them a game too...but it was there

I was listening to some schmuck on ACC Radio on SiriusXM. He was an expert sidekick with Rachel Baribeau. He said no one stayed within 20 points of Clemson all year. Great research buddy...but he was from the South...so.

 

[MikeSU02]

“The problem’s not Clemson, its getting out of the SEC...”


“...Clemson will be there next year because no one in the ACC can stop them”


If we don’t beat Clemson next year, I hope we See Auburn/LSU/Georgia in the post season and kick them in a ditch

Two points:

1) No one in the SEC can stop Clemson either (looking at you TAMU and Bama)
2) Being in the SEC means you get to lose two games and still have people arguing for you in the CFP playoffs (before getting beat by UT)

SEC gets plenty of preferential treatment.

 

[NKR1978]

In reality, Clemson had it easy in the ACC except for one game. Us.

The ACC is not the SEC.

Alabama 62 Ole Miss 7
45 A&M 23
65 Arkansas 31
39 Missouri 10
58 Tennessee 21
29 LSU 0
24 Mississippi State 0
52 Auburn 21

Alabama had it easy in the big bad SEC.

 

[SmilinBob]

Was having this argument with a friend last night. SEC might not be what it is represented to be. But no other conference is close. Pac 12 is pretty much a joke but managed to have 2 teams finish in the top 13 and no others. ACC had 2 in the top 15 and no others. Big 12 had 2 in top 9 and then WV at 22. Big 10 had 4 in the top 25. Then the SEC has 5 of the top 11 and another in the top 25 and this was considered somewhat of a down year.

I don't understand why opinion is ruled as fact? Top 11 is voted on and an opinion. SU, and yes this is my opinion, can beat any of those SEC teams other than Bama and Georgia in a 5 game series. It is just a "if they were ahead from the week before they stay ahead" type of thing when it comes to voting...timing if you will. SU doesn't play an undefeated ND and it was Lemoyne OOC instead, they would have never dropped from 12.

 

[sufandu]

How is it that Clemson's margin of victory over ACC teams is held as proof of a weal ACC and Alabama's margin of victory does not change the perception of the SEC? After Clemson beat Alabama similar to the way it beat up the ACC, shouldn't that improve the peeception of the ACC while hurting SEC perception? Yes, it should but, loud mouth SEC apologists like Finebaum are given a national stage to prevent that.

 

[baggerbob]

The problem with all the polls is preseason SEC and Big 10 dominate. Then they get credit for beating a top team even when they aren't.

 

[chugg21]

I don't understand why opinion is ruled as fact? Top 11 is voted on and an opinion. SU, and yes this is my opinion, can beat any of those SEC teams other than Bama and Georgia in a 5 game series. It is just a "if they were ahead from the week before they stay ahead" type of thing when it comes to voting...timing if you will. SU doesn't play an undefeated ND and it was Lemoyne OOC instead, they would have never dropped from 12.

How is it that Clemson's margin of victory over ACC teams is held as proof of a weal ACC and Alabama's margin of victory does not change the perception of the SEC? After Clemson beat Alabama similar to the way it beat up the ACC, shouldn't that improve the peeception of the ACC while hurting SEC perception? Yes, it should but, loud mouth SEC apologists like Finebaum are given a national stage to prevent that.

The problem with all the polls is preseason SEC and Big 10 dominate. Then they get credit for beating a top team even when they aren't.

How do y'all refute this then? 2018 College Football Conference Records - topdan.com

 

[longislandcuse]

The problem with all the polls is preseason SEC and Big 10 dominate. Then they get credit for beating a top team even when they aren't.

I agree with this premise in regards to the B1G. They have wildly mediocre teams like Michigan State that somehow stay for 3/4 of the year.

Also, outside of Ohio State, some of the B1G teams have good football players, but they do not have the athletes that the SEC and some ACC teams have.

The SEC is legit. Hands down, the best football conference in the land. People can get all worked up that ESPN protects it, but why wouldn't they?... Are you all going to watch 24/7 CFB content year round?.. because they will. Are you all committed to boosting/supporting your program in every way you can?... because they are.

Yea, there's bias. A lot of it is deserved and a lot of it is preserving a business model.

 

[bcubs9497]

Updated conference bowl records following national championship

"
Clemson’s national championship win over Alabama helped the ACC to move over the .500 mark in its record for bowl season. It also dropped the SEC to a 6-6 mark for the bowls.

ACC wins came from Wake Forest, Duke, Syracuse, Virginia, and two Clemson wins in the College Football Playoff, according to records compiled by NCAA.com. The ACC’s performance in the bowl season changed the season-long narrative that the conference had a sub-par performance from a national perspective.

The SEC’s wins came from Auburn, Florida, Alabama, Kentucky, LSU, Texas A&M. Its losses were by Vanderbilt, South Carolina, Missouri, Mississippi State, Georgia and Alabama in the national championship.

The ACC joined the Big Ten (5-4), Big 12 (4-3), Mountain West (3-2), Sun Belt (3-2) and independents (2-1) as conferences that were one game over .500. Conference USA’s 4-2 mark had the best winning percentage.

The conferences with losing records were the American (2-5), Mid-American (1-5) and Pac-12 (3-4)."

 

[longislandcuse]

Updated conference bowl records following national championship

"
Clemson’s national championship win over Alabama helped the ACC to move over the .500 mark in its record for bowl season. It also dropped the SEC to a 6-6 mark for the bowls.

ACC wins came from Wake Forest, Duke, Syracuse, Virginia, and two Clemson wins in the College Football Playoff, according to records compiled by NCAA.com. The ACC’s performance in the bowl season changed the season-long narrative that the conference had a sub-par performance from a national perspective.

The SEC’s wins came from Auburn, Florida, Alabama, Kentucky, LSU, Texas A&M. Its losses were by Vanderbilt, South Carolina, Missouri, Mississippi State, Georgia and Alabama in the national championship.

The ACC joined the Big Ten (5-4), Big 12 (4-3), Mountain West (3-2), Sun Belt (3-2) and independents (2-1) as conferences that were one game over .500. Conference USA’s 4-2 mark had the best winning percentage.

The conferences with losing records were the American (2-5), Mid-American (1-5) and Pac-12 (3-4)."

My only gripe, and I do think the ACC was undervalued simply because FSU/Miami/VT were down, is that outside of Clemson, the ACC's best win was Syracuse over WVU (yes, annoyingly, without Grier). Virginia's thrashing of South Carolina was good for the conference in showing that the middle tier of the ACC might be as good/better than the middle tier of the SEC.

...but that's really it. Wake/Duke beating AAC squads doesn't do much to help perception outside of contributing to the 6-5 bowl record.