Finebaum on 2019

[Alsacs]

My only gripe, and I do think the ACC was undervalued simply because FSU/Miami/VT were down, is that outside of Clemson, the ACC's best win was Syracuse over WVU (yes, annoyingly, without Grier). Virginia's thrashing of South Carolina was good for the conference in showing that the middle tier of the ACC might be as good/better than the middle tier of the SEC.

...but that's really it. Wake/Duke beating AAC squads doesn't do much to help perception outside of contributing to the 6-5 bowl record.

Georgia Tech joining the 21st century offensively can help the ACC in the future as that state HS has enough athletes for them to be top 25 a lot more.
Johnson’s offense was killing their ability to recruit GA skill position athletes.

 

[NKR1978]

My only gripe, and I do think the ACC was undervalued simply because FSU/Miami/VT were down, is that outside of Clemson, the ACC's best win was Syracuse over WVU (yes, annoyingly, without Grier). Virginia's thrashing of South Carolina was good for the conference in showing that the middle tier of the ACC might be as good/better than the middle tier of the SEC.

...but that's really it. Wake/Duke beating AAC squads doesn't do much to help perception outside of contributing to the 6-5 bowl record.

Whoa! Don't forget Duke's win @ B1G West champ Northwestern.

Have no problem saying the ACC was down this year, but I think it's funny when a couple people in this thread point to Clemson dominating everyone in the ACC except us as reason why the ACC sucks, while not considering that Alabama rolled through the SEC as easily as Clemson did, aside from Georgia.

I really have a hard time understanding why the ACC can't maintain success. I have no idea why Virginia Tech took such a massive step back this year. UNC goes from 11 wins in 2015 to 2 wins in 3 years. It really just makes no sense.

 

[longislandcuse]

Whoa! Don't forget Duke's win @ B1G West champ Northwestern.

Have no problem saying the ACC was down this year, but I think it's funny when a couple people in this thread point to Clemson dominating everyone in the ACC except us as reason why the ACC sucks, while not considering that Alabama rolled through the SEC as easily as Clemson did, aside from Georgia.

I really have a hard time understanding why the ACC can't maintain success. I have no idea why Virginia Tech took such a massive step back this year. UNC goes from 11 wins in 2015 to 2 wins in 3 years. It really just makes no sense.

Good point on Duke. Somehow they are viewed as a joke football school, yet NW garners respect from talking heads.

I take zero issue with SEC bias - They are the best conference, with the best fans, and it makes sense from a business perspective to market to them. My issue is usually with the B1G. The ACC desperately needs FSU/Miami to figure it out, but even down, the B1G isn't much better yet is treated as the clear cut #2 football conference.

 

[Hoo's That]

Whoa! Don't forget Duke's win @ B1G West champ Northwestern.

Have no problem saying the ACC was down this year, but I think it's funny when a couple people in this thread point to Clemson dominating everyone in the ACC except us as reason why the ACC sucks, while not considering that Alabama rolled through the SEC as easily as Clemson did, aside from Georgia.

I really have a hard time understanding why the ACC can't maintain success. I have no idea why Virginia Tech took such a massive step back this year. UNC goes from 11 wins in 2015 to 2 wins in 3 years. It really just makes no sense.

On the UNC board, they said that the 11-win season was Fedora winning with Butch Davis' players who were now seniors (Trubitsky, et al.). The fall-off came when he was using only the players he recruited. I couldn't tell you if that's right, wrong, or indifferent.

 

[sufandu]

How do y'all refute this then? 2018 College Football Conference Records - topdan.com

It's not at all hard to figure out. Firstly, one game is missing, Clemson beat Alabama to give the ACC 4 wins. Now look at the match ups game by game. Two of the ACC losses were by the worst team in the conference. None of the worst SEC teams played in any of those games. Where are Arkansas, Ole Miss, or Tennessee? The SEC wins came with their best teams playing mostly mediocre teams from the ACC (the top 3 SEC teams from each division vs the 3rd, 6th, and 7th teams in the Atlantic and 2nd, 3rd in the coastal). ACC wins came against the 1st and 2nd best teams in the SEC west and 4th in the SEC east. So, take out LSU and substitute Arkansas, and Miami, as bad as they were this year, wins that game. Or put us in Louisville's place against Kentucky and I feel good about that game. A mediocre Virginia blanked a mediocre South Carolina.

If you want to tell me the SEC is a little better this year, fine. I'll give you that. If you want to tell me there is a chasm between the two, no way. Clemson more than proved themselves by not only going undefeated in the better division of the ACC, they beat 3 SEC bowl teams, including their best, the team that is likely 3rd (while Clemson was still figuring out their qb situation), and a mediocre one that is an in state rival. It's almost the same as when we practically won the Big 12 basketball championship on our way to the NC in 2003.

Paul Finebaum is an idiot.

 

[longislandcuse]

It's not at all hard to figure out. Firstly, one game is missing, Clemson beat Alabama to give the ACC 4 wins. Now look at the match ups game by game. Two of the ACC losses were by the worst team in the conference. None of the worst SEC teams played in any of those games. Where are Arkansas, Ole Miss, or Tennessee? The SEC wins came with their best teams playing mostly mediocre teams from the ACC (the top 3 SEC teams from each division vs the 3rd, 6th, and 7th teams in the Atlantic and 2nd, 3rd in the coastal). ACC wins came against the 1st and 2nd best teams in the SEC west and 4th in the SEC east. So, take out LSU and substitute Arkansas, and Miami, as bad as they were this year, wins that game. Or put us in Louisville's place against Kentucky and I feel good about that game. A mediocre Virginia blanked a mediocre South Carolina.

If you want to tell me the SEC is a little better this year, fine. I'll give you that. If you want to tell me there is a chasm between the two, no way. Clemson more than proved themselves by not only going undefeated in the better division of the ACC, they beat 3 SEC bowl teams, including their best, the team that is likely 3rd (while Clemson was still figuring out their qb situation), and a mediocre one that is an in state rival. It's almost the same as when we practically won the Big 12 basketball championship on our way to the NC in 2003.

Paul Finebaum is an idiot.

There was a chasm this year though... Not every year, but this year, this is how we match up at the top (which is what matters when people discuss conference strength)

Clemson - Bama
Syracuse - UGA
NC State - LSU
BC - Florida
Pitt - Kentucky
Virginia - A&M
Duke - Miss St

How do you think that goes...

 

[Newhouser]

Lol wow. Seems like a scorching take for an offense that was dominant most of the year and had more total yards of offense than Clemson before Clemson's final drive. Last night they moved the ball pretty well on Clemson and ran the ball rather easily. Problem was 3-4 empty red zone possessions and 2 turnovers, of course along with playing from behind that puts you in rather predictable play calls late.

Bama's offense wasn't the biggest problem last night. They got smoked because of defensive breakdown after defesive breakdown in their secondary which plagued them all season long. And Clemson being the great team they are made them pay every single time for huge plays.

most recently when they lose it has been their D that faltered not their O. The 9-6 loss to LSU was years ago.

 

[721Comstock]

On the UNC board, they said that the 11-win season was Fedora winning with Butch Davis' players who were now seniors (Trubitsky, et al.). The fall-off came when he was using only the players he recruited. I couldn't tell you if that's right, wrong, or indifferent.

Did like 1/3 of all their starters get injured last year?

I don't care how good or not good a coach is - he still needs talented bodies to play the game, and when you're down to 3rd stringers and walk-ons, you're probably not winning many games.

 

[Newhouser]

There was a chasm this year though... Not every year, but this year, this is how we match up at the top (which is what matters when people discuss conference strength)

Clemson - Bama
Syracuse - UGA
NC State - LSU
BC - Florida
Pitt - Kentucky
Virginia - A&M
Duke - Miss St

How do you think that goes...

Um not good for the ACC

 

[Trueblue25]

There was a chasm this year though... Not every year, but this year, this is how we match up at the top (which is what matters when people discuss conference strength)

Clemson - Bama
Syracuse - UGA
NC State - LSU
BC - Florida
Pitt - Kentucky
Virginia - A&M
Duke - Miss St

How do you think that goes...

Otto burns down the hedges.

 

[Hoo's That]

Did like 1/3 of all their starters get injured last year?

I don't care how good or not good a coach is - he still needs talented bodies to play the game, and when you're down to 3rd stringers and walk-ons, you're probably not winning many games.

Yes, they were devastated. The discussion seemed to imply that their fans felt he wasn't winning enough even with them. They're very upset over the fact that they haven't won the ACC championship since 1980. Add to that an over-inflated sense of their own worth and the fact that dook and UVa (twice) have won since they last won makes for one very impatient fanbase.

UVa trivia - Between 1983 and 2010, UNC was 0-14 in Charlottesville. They were not amused.

 

[PhatOrange]

There was a chasm this year though... Not every year, but this year, this is how we match up at the top (which is what matters when people discuss conference strength)

Clemson - Bama
Syracuse - UGA
NC State - LSU
BC - Florida
Pitt - Kentucky
Virginia - A&M
Duke - Miss St

How do you think that goes...

I would take
Clemson
Syracuse
LSU
BC
Kentucky
Virginia
Duke

 

[TheCusian]

In reality, Clemson had it easy in the ACC except for one game. Us.

The ACC is not the SEC.

This year

 

[omniorange]

There was a chasm this year though... Not every year, but this year, this is how we match up at the top (which is what matters when people discuss conference strength)

Clemson - Bama
Syracuse - UGA
NC State - LSU
BC - Florida
Pitt - Kentucky
Virginia - A&M
Duke - Miss St

How do you think that goes...

Not well, but does everything have to be measured against the SEC? It's not as though the thoughts about the ACC from all the pundits are much different in comparison with the Big Ten either.

Clemson - Ohio State
Syracuse - Michigan
NC State - Penn State
BC - NW
Pitt - Iowa
UVA - Wisc
Duke - MSU

Not saying the ACC wins if the comparison is like the above one and not the SEC one, but the chasm is far, far less, imho.

Ultimately this was the worse overall year for the ACC since 2013. I think next year will likely be another "down" year as well. I do believe 2020 and beyond is when the ACC will challenge both the SEC and the Big Ten as best football conference on a regular basis. Especially if the ACCN and the $$$ it will add to each ACC schools coffers is what some in the conference think it will eventually be.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[cuse10]

While I agree, the SEC is better, it is NOT at the gap that the national media makes it out to be. SEC has a stronger second team in UGA, but after that the rest of the SEC is very similar to the ACC. I couldn't say for sure that Florida would have ran Syracuse out of the gym. There is a TON of garbage offenses in the SEC that allow people with spread offenses in the game for the most part. Texas AM will move up to the next level IMO because Jimbo is a championship type coach that can recruit. Florida maybe, I think that Mullen is a great offensive mind, but I am not sure he can recruit to a level that makes them elite. The SEC west is the best division in football, but the ACC Atlantic is not very far behind IMO.

With what Mullen did with Florida this season is going to sell itself. That's with a terrible Felipe Franks under center. If Justin Fields didn't take that Georgia bag, the Gators would be terrifying. All he needs is a legit QB and they'll post a threat in the SEC for years to come.

 

[Madbiker]

Perception ACC is "down" is because Florida State is down. Media was focused on FSU as ACC football for last 25 years.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I don’t know why people get upset when Paul Finebaum carries water for the SEC. it’s like getting mad because you found out that the Sun will rise tomorrow morning.

This.
It’s like scouring the interwebs looking for any negative quote about SU, particularly from dbags like Doug Gottlieb, and then giving it more attention here, to mark the outrage.
It creates a debate, sure- but no one should really be surprised, no?

 

[sufandu]

There was a chasm this year though... Not every year, but this year, this is how we match up at the top (which is what matters when people discuss conference strength)

Clemson - Bama
Syracuse - UGA
NC State - LSU
BC - Florida
Pitt - Kentucky
Virginia - A&M
Duke - Miss St

How do you think that goes...

But the top isn't all that matters. If it did this argument wouldn't exist since Clemson smashed the SEC's best team. I agree that Alabama and Georgia are better than everyone not Clemson, so move everyone starting with Syracuse one line down and it evens out significantly.

The whole point of this discussion was whether Clemson played a tough enough schedule. They absoulutely did. I'll repeat it for the thick headed, they not only went undefeated in the harder division of the ACC, they beat two SEC bowl teams before thrashing Alabama.

 

[Trueblue25]

Louisville, Miami and Tech tanked our perception this year. All the more reason to resent their existence

 

[sufandu]

This.
It’s like scouring the interwebs looking for any negative quote about SU, particularly from dbags like Doug Gottlieb, and then giving it more attention here, to mark the outrage.
It creates a debate, sure- but no one should really be surprised, no?

It's different because ESPN puts Finebaum on TV billed as a national college football expert when he is merely a regional SEC apologist. You don't have to dig for him like Gottlieb.

 

[chugg21]

I would take
Clemson
Syracuse
LSU
BC
Kentucky
Virginia
Duke

If we came within 14 of Georgia I would consider that a win. They would likely run for 300+. Just being realistic.

 

[chugg21]

Perception ACC is "down" is because Florida State is down. Media was focused on FSU as ACC football for last 25 years.

And Miami.

 

[supp]

Perception ACC is "down" is because Florida State is down. Media was focused on FSU as ACC football for last 25 years.

If FSU and Miami get back on track and Syracuse, NC State, and UVA keep rising, the ACC is as strong as any league in the country including the SEC.

 

[shandeezy7]

I think even that doesn't really work that well because these powerhouse teams like Alabama and Oklahoma score so fast and in Alabama's case get up by so much so fast that they are just trying to grind the clock out for the majority of the 2nd half. Not sure what standalone state could accurately show what we are looking for here.

There's gotta be some kind of formula that combines plays per game, yards per play and time of possession to determine a true tempo rating. As you mentioned, both Bama and Oklahoma have big plays and score quickly. In fact, Bama led the country in plays gaining over 10 yards (293). They were 3rd in 20+ yard plays (101), 5th in 30+ yard plays (47), 3rd in 40+ yard plays (32) and 2nd in 50+ yard plays (20).

cfbstats.com - 2018 National Team Leaders

Combine this with the fact that according to this metric, Alabama was 12th in the country in average field position. So they led the country in 10+ yard plays and were 12th in the country in average field position. It's no wonder they didn't need to run as many plays per game as other higher-tempo teams.

https://www.cfbanalytics.com/2018-field-position

 

[baggerbob]

If we came within 14 of Georgia I would consider that a win. They would likely run for 300+. Just being realistic.

Not against the defense, and offense with a healthy Eric at the end of the year. Shy replacing Cordy, and Trill for Bradshaw made a big difference.