Fire Autry

[CuseTG2003]

I think it was scooter who pointed out that it was insane to hire an assistant who oversaw the decline of a great program thinking he would turn it around.

It’s worse than that. We hired a longtime assistant who not a single other D1 program thought to even interview.

 

[Scooch]

That's... a pretty low bar. Most posters on the board can do that.

This was one of the very weakest teams on the schedule and it was a dogfight. I think you might be hypnotizing yourself into coping, which is frankly something I wish I could do.

I don’t think it was a dogfight. And that’s the issue. We knew we’d beat them, and we put in the least effort possible to do so.

I’m disappointed because you’d think after Hofstra we’d have come out over this three game stretch of cupcakes and blast them from the jump. It’s been the exact opposite. It’s the sign of a team that lacks intent and urgency.

That Red had to scream at them 8
Minutes into the game is an embarrassment. It shouldn’t be coming to that.

But, all we can do is hope we have a healthy Freeman for Clemson and we rip off a month of ACC wins. Seems clear we need to go something like 14-4 in conference to have any tourney chance.

 

[Grbac]

It sucks when you have a genuine nice guy and well liked alumni as coach and he isn’t the one. It really puts him in a spot of being disliked for being in a position he should have never been in.
It’s like putting a fat man on a Kentucky Derby horse. He can’t get these guys to play hard consistently. I feel like we don’t even have the fundamentals down like passing, hitting free throws, and making layups.
We don’t even ask for much these days. Just being one of the 60 teams to make the tourney every year. We are Syracuse and our standards should be much higher.

 

[SUFan44]

I don’t think it was a dogfight. And that’s the issue. We knew we’d beat them, and we put in the least effort possible to do so.

I’m disappointed because you’d think after Hofstra we’d have come out over this three game stretch of cupcakes and blast them from the jump. It’s been the exact opposite. It’s the sign of a team that lacks intent and urgency.

That Red had to scream at them 8
Minutes into the game is an embarrassment. It shouldn’t be coming to that.

But, all we can do is hope we have a healthy Freeman for Clemson and we rip off a month of ACC wins. Seems clear we need to go something like 14-4 in conference to have any tourney chance.

Intensity, urgency and intent are all driven by the head coach. Accountability is not there, and that starts at the top.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don’t think it was a dogfight. And that’s the issue. We knew we’d beat them, and we put in the least effort possible to do so.

I’m disappointed because you’d think after Hofstra we’d have come out over this three game stretch of cupcakes and blast them from the jump. It’s been the exact opposite. It’s the sign of a team that lacks intent and urgency.

That Red had to scream at them 8
Minutes into the game is an embarrassment. It shouldn’t be coming to that.

But, all we can do is hope we have a healthy Freeman for Clemson and we rip off a month of ACC wins. Seems clear we need to go something like 14-4 in conference to have any tourney chance.

11-12 wins probably would be enough to be a 10 or 11 seed with the amount of quad ones we have left. Saving grace is the ACC was pretty good in the OOC this year. That said no one here will be happy with that and Red may be fired anyway.

 

[wiCuse]

There's rare unanimous agreement on this board that Red is a nice guy. Unfortunately, the famous Leo Durocher quote is appropriate "Nice guys finish last." I really believe this is why the team hasn't responded since the Hofstra loss (or had any sustained success during Red's tenure). There's never been a standard or any accountability for sloppy play or careless mistakes.

Any decent coach has this quality. Red wants to be a friend.

 

[CardiacCuse]

one of the most damning things about Red as a HC is looking at the stats of his former players this year - across the board, they are (often times MUCH) better away from SU than they were with Red, sometimes by a lot:

Kyle Cuffe - 12.3 PER (highest of career) 7.2 pts/gm (highest of career), 38% from 3 (highest of career) but only getting 14 minutes of gametime per game...so its not about playing more
Chance Westry - 26.4 PER!, 16 pts/gm, 4 reb/gm, 4 asts/gm (obviously all highest of career)
Quadir Copeland - 24.4 PER (highest of career), 132.3 ortg (highest of career by FAR), 54% from 3! (highest of career), 14 pts/gm (highest of career), 5.8 assts/gm (highest of career)
Chris Bell - 19.1 PER (by far highest of career), 14.4 points/gm (highest of career), 2.7 reb/gm (highest of career)...in less minutes than he got his sophomore season at SU
Petar masjtorvic - PER 16.8 (much higher than at SU), 13.5 pts/ gm (compared to only 2.6 for SU)...across the board almost all of his stats this year are better than with SU

this is honestly the best signal we have of Reds impact as a coach - his players leave - a lot of them looked hopeless for SU under his tutelage - and they BLOSSOM under a different coach.

its really hard to say that this current roster would be doing bettter with a different coach even though it FEELS like that...but when you look at the stats of his former guys and see how they are KILLING IT FOR THEIR NEW TEAMS...its kinda hard to come up with any other conclusion besides red is the problem.

guys like chance, petar and bell cuffe looked lost playing for red...well guess what? it wasnt them.

how much better would our current roster be with an elite coach???

 

[Hawknate144]

one of the most damning things about Red as a HC is looking at the stats of his former players this year - across the board, they are (often times MUCH) better away from SU than they were with Red, sometimes by a lot:

Kyle Cuffe - 12.3 PER (highest of career) 7.2 pts/gm (highest of career), 38% from 3 (highest of career) but only getting 14 minutes of gametime per game...so its not about playing more
Chance Westry - 26.4 PER!, 16 pts/gm, 4 reb/gm, 4 asts/gm (obviously all highest of career)
Quadir Copeland - 24.4 PER (highest of career), 132.3 ortg (highest of career by FAR), 54% from 3! (highest of career), 14 pts/gm (highest of career), 5.8 assts/gm (highest of career)
Chris Bell - 19.1 PER (by far highest of career), 14.4 points/gm (highest of career), 2.7 reb/gm (highest of career)...in less minutes than he got his sophomore season at SU
Petar masjtorvic - PER 16.8 (much higher than at SU), 13.5 pts/ gm (compared to only 2.6 for SU)...across the board almost all of his stats this year are better than with SU

this is honestly the best signal we have of Reds impact as a coach - his players leave - a lot of them looked hopeless for SU under his tutelage - and they BLOSSOM under a different coach.

its really hard to say that this current roster would be doing bettter with a different coach even though it FEELS like that...but when you look at the stats of his former guys and see how they are KILLING IT FOR THEIR NEW TEAMS...its kinda hard to come up with any other conclusion besides red is the problem.

guys like chance, petar and bell cuffe looked lost playing for red...well guess what? it wasnt them.

how much better would our current roster be with an elite coach???

Not to Defend Red, but
The wonders of dropping down a level for 3 of those guys.
Westry didn't play(who is the reason for that I don't know) , so I'm not sure we can really judge Red on that one.

Ill give you Bell and part of Copeland though I think we would have kept Copeland if he hadn't been essentially expelled due to grades

 

[sufan59]

I’m feeling optimistic about this team. I think they will get back that defensive intensity at the beginning of the season. I also think offensively the last two games was pretty good overall (much better ball movement) and encouraging production from the guards. They got to continue being aggressive. Donnie is going to help with rebounds, interior defense, and scoring. Donnie worst game was Monmouth, but it was clear something wasn’t good that game. If we get the Donnie of the first 3 games then this is a different team as long as the guards keep up their play. I also think Red should tighten the lineup a little for conference play, minutes granted to certain guys only if their is bad foul trouble.

 

[wiCuse]

I’m feeling optimistic about this team. I think they will get back that defensive intensity at the beginning of the season. I also think offensively the last two games was pretty good overall (much better ball movement) and encouraging production from the guards. They got to continue being aggressive. Donnie is going to help with rebounds, interior defense, and scoring. Donnie worst game was Monmouth, but it was clear something wasn’t good that game. If we get the Donnie of the first 3 games then this is a different team as long as the guards keep up their play. I also think Red should tighten the lineup a little for conference play, minutes granted to certain guys only if their is bad foul trouble.

I hope Freeman has a huge impact when he returns against Clemson. However, his best games are all against inferior competition. Rebounding only gets better with him on the court. That's the only guarantee. Spacing will also improve, but we have a coach that cannot coach offense...

Some are putting Donnie in an impossible position. He's not a lottery pick, he's not even on any draft boards. Yet he's supposed to save our season. Please realize we have enough talent paired with a poor coach, which is really frustrating. Ceiling is somehow sneaking into the tournament and fixing this mess with a new coach.

 

[721Comstock]

I hope Freeman has a huge impact when he returns against Clemson. However, his best games are all against inferior competition. Rebounding only gets better with him on the court. That's the only guarantee. Spacing will also improve, but we have a coach that cannot coach offense...

Some are putting Donnie in an impossible position. He's not a lottery pick, he's not even on any draft boards. Yet he's supposed to save our season. Please realize we have enough talent paired with a poor coach, which is really frustrating. Ceiling is somehow sneaking into the tournament and fixing this mess with a new coach.

Yeah, but -
IF we manage to sneak into the tournament, then Red will likely get another year.

So, I guess let’s root for a winning season, but then narrowly missing the tournament;
so that the necessity of moving on from this staff becomes abundantly clear to all parties.

 

[wiCuse]

Yeah, but -
IF we manage to sneak into the tournament, then Red will likely get another year.

So, I guess let’s root for a winning season, but then narrowly missing the tournament;
so that the necessity of moving on from this staff becomes abundantly clear to all parties.

I get what you're saying. Listening to Wildhack's comments about the past football season and current basketball season gives me a lot of hope. Wildhack supports and believes in Fran, while he calls out losing to Hofstra. There was no mention of the embarrassing loss to Notre Dame. Red is in a lot of trouble, there was no support provided from Wildhack. Red has to do things he's not capable of (no offensive system, develop subbing patterns, motivate players on a consistent basis, etc) for this team to play meaningful games in March.

If sneaking into the tournament with this roster is the new standard we're cooked...

 

[tptcuse]

Yeah, but -
IF we manage to sneak into the tournament, then Red will likely get another year.

So, I guess let’s root for a winning season, but then narrowly missing the tournament;
so that the necessity of moving on from this staff becomes abundantly clear to all parties.

Alternatively, let's root for everything to click and that the Hofstra game was an aberration and we cruise into the tournament.

 

[ORANGE OATH]

Time and again the University has proven to me they will not act until the seats are nearly empty.
Don’t count on Red being gone even if we fail to make the tournament.
The history supports me on this.

 

[Cappy3]

Time and again the University has proven to me they will not act until the seats are nearly empty.
Don’t count on Red being gone even if we fail to make the tournament.
The history supports me on this.

What “history” might that be? The way they treated a Hall of Fame legend? You seriously think Red will get the same slack?

 

[Blanko97]

Alternatively, let's root for everything to click and that the Hofstra game was an aberration and we cruise into the tournament.

Im conflicted. I want to be in the tournament but I’m also so tired of watching mediocrity that I don’t want red to get another year just because he hit bare minimum expectations in year 3. That might fly at Virginia Tech but it shouldn’t here

 

[sufan59]

Im conflicted. I want to be in the tournament but I’m also so tired of watching mediocrity that I don’t want red to get another year just because he hit bare minimum expectations in year 3. That might fly at Virginia Tech but it shouldn’t here

FWIW where things stand, mediocrity in conference play isn’t going to be good enough to get to the Dance. Not pulling out the Houston game and Hofstra game has basically set the stage for what needs to be a good conference play with some good wins and no bad losses. They had those two wins you may be able to get away with 10-8 or 9-9. It’s got to be 11-7 at worse, 12-6, a lot would have to go wrong to leave them out. I’m kind of one of those hoping preparation is going on in the background, but would be thrilled to squash those plans if Red has the click it moment that brings us back to good consistent basketball (we will all feel it when that happens). Now there is a scenario where we don’t perform well in conference play then win the ACC tournament, Kevin Keatts and Patrick Ewing did it to save their jobs temporarily.

 

[cuseallday]

I’m feeling optimistic about this team. I think they will get back that defensive intensity at the beginning of the season. I also think offensively the last two games was pretty good overall (much better ball movement) and encouraging production from the guards. They got to continue being aggressive. Donnie is going to help with rebounds, interior defense, and scoring. Donnie worst game was Monmouth, but it was clear something wasn’t good that game. If we get the Donnie of the first 3 games then this is a different team as long as the guards keep up their play. I also think Red should tighten the lineup a little for conference play, minutes granted to certain guys only if their is bad foul trouble.

Some great points here, my friend. Regarding the rotation, what is ideal to you? The starting five, including Donnie, plus Kiyan, Sadiq and Tyler? 8-man? Would you go beyond that? Souare, Fennell, etc. Curious what people think!

 

[sufan59]

Some great points here, my friend. Regarding the rotation, what is ideal to you? The starting five, including Donnie, plus Kiyan, Sadiq and Tyler? 8-man? Would you go beyond that? Souare, Fennell, etc. Curious what people think!

Yep, George, Starling, Kingz, Freeman, and Kyle. White, Anthony, and Betsey off the bench. When Kyle sits, ideally you have Freeman or White take over the 5 and you bring in Betsey. Anthony gives George and Starling rest. Betsey gives Kingz and Freeman rest. Souare is the 9th guy in case their is foul trouble with the forwards and Kyle. Fennell and Zephir gets in the game if their foul trouble or you need a spark. The offensive spark go with Fennell. The defensive spark go with Zephir. I think Fennell will be a pleasant surprise once he gets used to the speed of the College game, he has some very high IQ aspects to his game.

 

[cuseallday]

Yep, George, Starling, Kingz, Freeman, and Kyle. White, Anthony, and Betsey off the bench. When Kyle sits, ideally you have Freeman or White take over the 5 and you bring in Betsey. Anthony gives George and Starling rest. Betsey gives Kingz and Freeman rest. Souare is the 9th guy in case their is foul trouble with the forwards and Kyle. Fennell and Zephir gets in the game if their foul trouble or you need a spark. The offensive spark go with Fennell. The defensive spark go with Zephir. I think Fennell will be a pleasant surprise once he gets used to the speed of the College game, he has some very high IQ aspects to his game.

That's well said. Happy Holidays!

 

[sufan59]

That's well said. Happy Holidays!

Thank you, too you as well!

 

[Charbroil]

I don’t think it was a dogfight. And that’s the issue. We knew we’d beat them, and we put in the least effort possible to do so.

I’m disappointed because you’d think after Hofstra we’d have come out over this three game stretch of cupcakes and blast them from the jump. It’s been the exact opposite. It’s the sign of a team that lacks intent and urgency.

That Red had to scream at them 8
Minutes into the game is an embarrassment. It shouldn’t be coming to that.

But, all we can do is hope we have a healthy Freeman for Clemson and we rip off a month of ACC wins. Seems clear we need to go something like 14-4 in conference to have any tourney chance.

Kind of amazing to me how confidently folks on this board say we need to get “x number of wins” to make the tournament but aren’t even remotely accurate.

If this team were to win 14 conf games (unfortunately never gonna happen), they’d probably be like a 7 seed, not on the bubble. They’d be 23-8 with a bare minimum of 3 quad 1 wins and even more quad 2 wins.

Obviously the bubble is different every year, but UNC made the tournament with a 22-13 record and 1-12 against quad 1 in a considerably worse ACC last year. So let’s put things in perspective.

 

[Orangefizz]

Watching Red’s offense for the past 2 1/2 years has been torture. At least he thinks there’s nothing wrong.

I’ve seen enough…

This JB continuity experiment has been a disaster

 

[FloridaCuse]

I get what you're saying. Listening to Wildhack's comments about the past football season and current basketball season gives me a lot of hope. Wildhack supports and believes in Fran, while he calls out losing to Hofstra. There was no mention of the embarrassing loss to Notre Dame. Red is in a lot of trouble, there was no support provided from Wildhack. Red has to do things he's not capable of (no offensive system, develop subbing patterns, motivate players on a consistent basis, etc) for this team to play meaningful games in March.

If sneaking into the tournament with this roster is the new standard we're cooked...

I thought someone close to the team posted on here last week or the week before that his mandate isn't to just make the tournament but to make it and win at least one game.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Yep, George, Starling, Kingz, Freeman, and Kyle. White, Anthony, and Betsey off the bench. When Kyle sits, ideally you have Freeman or White take over the 5 and you bring in Betsey. Anthony gives George and Starling rest. Betsey gives Kingz and Freeman rest. Souare is the 9th guy in case their is foul trouble with the forwards and Kyle. Fennell and Zephir gets in the game if their foul trouble or you need a spark. The offensive spark go with Fennell. The defensive spark go with Zephir. I think Fennell will be a pleasant surprise once he gets used to the speed of the College game, he has some very high IQ aspects to his game.

Watching Fennell in warmup, I think he is the most "pure" shooter on the team. Whether that ever comes to fruition is hard to tell.