Football Sell-Out...

[JeremyCuse]

Supply and demand no doubt. People that think they can show up and be seated in half an hour just before the game starts usually have some surprises in store for them. It's not like when you go to a movie at the mall, you must leave the comforts of your home early or suffer the frustration of parking and walking to the Dome.

It always amazes me when I see people trying to park 15 minutes before the game as they sit in traffic across from the fine lot. I see it nearly every game as I walk up to the Dome with my beer, I just shake my head. That being said, SU building a good size parking garage or opening up some type of public parking anywhere close to the dome would generate a lot of revenue.

 

[SmilinBob]

No doubt Jeremy, a big lot near the Dome would be quite nice for all involved.

 

[All4SU]

It always amazes me when I see people trying to park 15 minutes before the game as they sit in traffic across from the fine lot. I see it nearly every game as I walk up to the Dome with my beer, I just shake my head. That being said, SU building a good size parking garage or opening up some type of public parking anywhere close to the dome would generate a lot of revenue.

Exactly. Get up there at least an hour before game time...probably two. Then relax.

Maybe they can pave over Oakwood Cemetary. It's not like those folks would complain.
Dead Man's Tailgate! A new Orange tradition.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Exactly. Get up there at least an hour before game time...probably two. Then relax.

Maybe they can pave over Oakwood Cemetary. It's not like those folks would complain.
Dead Man's Tailgate! A new Orange tradition.

I tell ya, golf courses and cemeteries are the biggest wastes of prime real estate. - Al Czervik.

 

[JSOrange97]

Parking plays a role. It’s a giant pain in the arse and the ‘average’ fan just isn’t going to deal with the hassle.

The parking excuse is a tired one. Parking has always been an issue. It is not as if there were lots capable of holding thousands of cars right next to the dome that were suddenly taken away. Parking has always been a challenge, yet when we were winning, we would have good crowds, even if they had to park on Skytop (oh my!) I'm not sure that parking is the problem.

 

[JSOrange97]

I agree but the situation is still a cluster if your not familiar with the parking situation at the Dome. Syracuse has zero public lots, the only parking anywhere close to the dome not pass protected is a private garage on a one way street that backs up to armory square for any decent size crowd. I have a parking pass so it doesnt affect me obviously but trying to get casual fans to come to a game/tailgate can be an issue based on the lack of parking options.

Perhaps there is a perception that parking is a huge problem. I could see the casual fan coupling this with the lack of "gameday atmosphere" in parking lots (i.e. tailgating.) And it isn't enough to get them to move off of the couch.

So why doesn't SU do a little something to promote the fun of Gameday by addressing some of the tailgate concerns people have and along the way, address the parking situation head on. Yes, it can be a challenge, No, it is not insurmountable. Here are your options...

Hand out free hot dog coupons on the Skytop buses. Beer would be better .

Or, how about have the University sponsor shuttle buses from other locations around the city? Would that help the "casual fan"?

 

[CuseOnly]

Yep. And they did a terrible job during basketball season with their alternative offerings - that first level stand with the mac and cheese and chicken parm and stuff was closed for most of the year (and the backcourt was even closed on Senior Night).

I get the space constraints, but develop some different foods and sell them consistently at each stand. If the Chiefs can do it (and, yes, this has gotten publicity and been a small draw for them), so can SU. They need more pressure from the top to get middle management and the rank and file to be more receptive to customer preferences (and to the larger goal of taking pride in making the Dome the best place in the country to see a college game). That they would shut the backcourt and their one alternative concession stand (and move a 7:00 p.m. start to 6:00 p.m. on a business day) for Senior Night says a lot about their priorities.

With regard to food, why not have a few gated sections outside of the dome gates XX and XY where people can exit the dome, have some giant grills with a "normal" tailgate assortment of fresh grilled food. Grilled chicken, fresh grilled Hoffmans, Hamburgers, Cheeseburgers, fresh grilled Gianelli sausage, salt potatoes, etc..

Beer vendors, can't forget the beer.

Cash only...get some fresh air, some food during halftime, etc

Just a thought, wouldn't cost much. Sub out a vendor, some metal partitions and take a percentage of the gross goes to SU.

 

[SaltineWar]

How about making some really affordable deals for the students to come and watch all the home games. They are the generation that Syracuse has to get involved in the football program.

Those spoiled brats wouldn't sit through a whole game if you paid them.

 

[PhatOrange]

The parking excuse is a tired one. Parking has always been an issue. It is not as if there were lots capable of holding thousands of cars right next to the dome that were suddenly taken away. Parking has always been a challenge, yet when we were winning, we would have good crowds, even if they had to park on Skytop (oh my!) I'm not sure that parking is the problem.

A tired excuse? It's a real issue. We're talking casual fans people who could give a shot if they go to a game or not. It's always been an issue just like attendance has always been an issue. But over the years the parking situation has deteriorated worse than it ever was before. WAY worse. Back in the day I used to park in the cemetery with hundreds of other people, right next to the dome. That's now gone. Manley is gone and who wants to shuttle anyhow. Plus dont you need a parking pass for what parking is there? All streets within 10 blocks coned off. Armory and the train is gone. Multiple parking pass lots are now gone. He'll half the quad parking is gone.

You tell me it's a tired excuse but I know a lot of casual fans who just would rather not deal. It's a real issue and one that probably can't be fixed.

I would start by getting the city to stop coning both sides of the streets, get the cemetery to open their gates again and heck they could make some money doing it and I'd try to get the armory train rolling again. I don't shuttle but I loved parking in armory, tail gaiting there and taking the train up and I think others would agree.

 

[Moontan]

Also, I care less about individual games than seasons. Here is my go-to page for season attendance (not updated recently). The 90s were good. Look at '92...averaged over 49.

http://www.suathletics.com/sports/2008/4/23/sufootballhomeattendance.aspx

Why they include 1979 in those stats is beyond me.

 

[JSOrange97]

A tired excuse? It's a real issue. We're talking casual fans people who could give a shot if they go to a game or not. It's always been an issue just like attendance has always been an issue. But over the years the parking situation has deteriorated worse than it ever was before. WAY worse. Back in the day I used to park in the cemetery with hundreds of other people, right next to the dome. That's now gone. Manley is gone and who wants to shuttle anyhow. Plus dont you need a parking pass for what parking is there? All streets within 10 blocks coned off. Armory and the train is gone. Multiple parking pass lots are now gone. He'll half the quad parking is gone.

You tell me it's a tired excuse but I know a lot of casual fans who just would rather not deal. It's a real issue and one that probably can't be fixed.

I would start by getting the city to stop coning both sides of the streets, get the cemetery to open their gates again and heck they could make some doing it and I'd try to get the armory train rolling again. I don't shuttle but I loved parking in armory, tail gaiting there and taking the train up and I think others would agree.

Ok, well then, this is something which we can probably seek to understand better.

I would like to think that Carrier Dome logistics folks would be smart enough to understand that for an average game, say 2-3 fans per car will drive, and maybe about 4000 (?) students and local fans who will walk to the Dome. Thus worst case is to get 50k fans, you need 15,333 to 23,000 parking spots... if you don't have this capacity, then there needs to be adequate provisions for mass transit or other means to get people to the Dome...

Does this number make sense? Well, according to this link, there are about 28,800 parking spaces at MetLife Stadium (capacity of about 82,500 fans.) This puts an average of 2.86 fans per vehicle, if they all drove. For MetLife it isn't a good assumption because there is excellent mass transit and a lot buses go to NFL games. So if they assume 2 people per car, then they are still accounting for about 25k fans (or 30% of capacity) to get there via other means. Sounds reasonable for MetLife.

Applying this to the Carrier Dome: 30% of 50,000 is 15,000.. so you need a way to handle 15,000 fans via other than cars (buses, mass transit, walkers, etc.) and still need about 17,500 parking spaces. Uh oh.

Jason, if you are watching this discussion you started, what is the assumed parking capacity for Carrier Dome football games? Logistically how difficult is it to get 50,000 people to the Dome (assuming we could figure out a way to entice them to attend)?

 

[Scooch]

On attendance, I've made this point a dozen times before, but it bears repeating...

All you need to know about SU football attendance happened on 9/21/98. That day a 1-1 Syracuse team, loaded with high-profile stars on both sides of the ball, coming off laying an epic beatdown on defending national champion Michigan, and being touted nationally as still being in the national title hunt despite a heart-wrenching (but super exciting) loss to Tennessee in week 1, drew...

42,000.

It was against Rutgers (a historically horrific program at the time) but it was Parent's Weekend, which always provides a sizable boost to attendance.

I don't like to dump on fans anymore, everyone has the right to choose what they want to do. But CNYers are very, very casual fans of SU football, aside from the 30-35K core who showed up even during the dreadful GumpRob er(ror)a.

Only way to get back to the halycon days of drawing 46K+ each game is to win. And even then we'll still see ~42K for the games people perceive as dogs.

It is what it is.

All the talk about parking, concessions, "atmoshpere" and all that is nice, but it's not going to move the needle meaningfully.

Gotta win.

Good luck, Jason.

 

[Chip]

On attendance, I've made this point a dozen times before, but it bears repeating...

All you need to know about SU football attendance happened on 9/21/98. That day a 1-1 Syracuse team, loaded with high-profile stars on both sides of the ball, coming off laying an epic beatdown on defending national champion Michigan, and being touted nationally as still being in the national title hunt despite a heart-wrenching (but super exciting) loss to Tennessee in week 1, drew...

42,000.

It was against Rutgers (a historically horrific program at the time) but it was Parent's Weekend, which always provides a sizable boost to attendance.

I don't like to dump on fans anymore, everyone has the right to choose what they want to do. But CNYers are very, very casual fans of SU football, aside from the 30-35K core who showed up even during the dreadful GumpRob er(ror)a.

Only way to get back to the halycon days of drawing 46K+ each game is to win. And even then we'll still see ~42K for the games people perceive as dogs.

It is what it is.

All the talk about parking, concessions, "atmoshpere" and all that is nice, but it's not going to move the needle meaningfully.

Gotta win.

Good luck, Jason.

I would just add to the end... Gotta win "against interesting teams", AND/OR Gotta win "with an overly exciting (on a national level) offensive player".

McNabb, Harrison, Graves, Qadry, McPherson, Moore, Tennessee, Michigan, Ohio State, Miami, VT, Penn State. Any of those combos brought them out.

I'm sure there are plenty of people that are annoyed by parking, concessions, the weather that day, etc. But give them a winning team with an exciting offensive, AND/OR an opponent with a national name, they'll get over it and show up.

Give them the GRob offense years and the Big East post 2003, and no more than 35,000 people are interested on any given week.

It's not even worth judging it at this point. It just is what it is.

Luckily, we should be heading in the right direction on all accounts.

 

[Scooch]

I would just add to the end... Gotta win "against interesting teams", AND/OR Gotta win "with an overly exciting (on a national level) offensive player".

McNabb, Harrison, Graves, Qadry, McPherson, Moore, Tennessee, Michigan, Ohio State, Miami, VT, Penn State. Any of those combos brought them out.

I'm sure there are plenty of people that are annoyed by parking, concessions, the weather that day, etc. But give them a winning team with an exciting offensive, AND/OR an opponent with a national name, they'll get over it and show up.

Give them the GRob offense years and the Big East post 2003, and no more than 35,000 people are interested on any given week.

It's not even worth judging it at this point. It just is what it is.

Luckily, we should be heading in the right direction on all accounts.

Agreed.

I've always felt that SU missed an opportunity to better cultivate it's fan base in the 90s, because although we had a very exciting team most years, we apparently thought marketing was a fad.

Say what you will about Dr. Gross, but he understands that you have to constantly market. Have to keep SU football top of mind. A combination of that, a winning program, and attractive opponents will right the attendance ship.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Exactly. Get up there at least an hour before game time...probably two. Then relax.

Maybe they can pave over Oakwood Cemetary. It's not like those folks would complain.
Dead Man's Tailgate! A new Orange tradition.

sold.

get Oingo Boingo to play before every game......

 

[Chip]

get Oingo Boingo to play before every game......

Did you just watch Back to School too? I did. It's a dead man's party...

I so wanted Thornton Mellon to be my dad. That whiny kid didn't know what he had...until the end.

 

[orange126]

Exactly. Get up there at least an hour before game time...probably two. Then relax.

Maybe they can pave over Oakwood Cemetary. It's not like those folks would complain.
Dead Man's Tailgate! A new Orange tradition.

Used to tailgate in Oakwood. Not sure when that ended.

 

[MassOrange]

I unfortunately have some time on my hands, so here is my first crack at a parking analysis, unless / until we get something more official. I highlighted the major lots / garages around the Dome and University area, and started counting.

Carrier Dome Parking Map Link

Fine print:

This excludes street parking, the regular university lots, and places that I wasn't sure whether they handle Dome traffic (i.e. Crouse Hospital garage or lots near University Ave Apts). I always park on E Gennessee for free and enjoy the walk, so have never really paid attention. It also assumes the imagery is up to date. I also didn't count handicapped spaces (I have no idea about how often those get used). For the garages, I guessed and multiplied the number of visual spaces by four. So there's more room for error there.


A conservative number to be sure, but given all that, I get a mere 3,187 lot spaces and 2,189 garage spaces for a total of 5,376.
What else should I add or is wrong with this picture?

If this is at all close to being accurate, then physically getting 50K to the Dome does look like a challenge.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

What else should I add or is wrong with this picture?

289 at Skytop? Not even close.

You didn't even count the unpaved lot at Skytop that's at least 3-4x as big as the paved lot.

Stadium West 1 (Raynor) doesn't exist anymore. It's now a law school.

Stadium West 3 (Henry) doesn't exist anymore. It's now apartments.

You forgot the new lot just East of Fine.

 

[PhatOrange]

Where does Syracuse rank in terms of private school's football attendance? (i'm too lazy to look it up)

You want to increase attendance make Syracuse a State School.

 

[MassOrange]

289 at Skytop? Not even close.

You didn't even count the unpaved lot at Skytop that's at least 3-4x as big as the paved lot.

Stadium West 1 (Raynor) doesn't exist anymore. It's now a law school.

Stadium West 3 (Henry) doesn't exist anymore. It's now appartments.

You forgot the new lot just East of Fine.

Appreciate the feedback. Now updated. Anything else look off?

Link

 

[KaiserUEO]

Did you just watch Back to School too? I did. It's a dead man's party...

I so wanted Thornton Mellon to be my dad. That whiny kid didn't know what he had...until the end.

why dont you call me, when you have no class...

actually we get these pre-programed musak discs every month to play over the office speakers, and that song has been in the rotation for freakin months now.

the song has taken on a life of its own here. got my best suit and tie, shiny silver dollar on either eye.

totally OT, but speaking of musak, remember when Ted Nugent heard one of his songs in an elevator all musaked out...so he tried to buy the company?? the motorcity madman figured he could then take every recording and use them for target practice, and thus the world would be rid of 'original' musak.

pure genius.

 

[JeremyCuse]

289 at Skytop? Not even close.

You didn't even count the unpaved lot at Skytop that's at least 3-4x as big as the paved lot.

Stadium West 1 (Raynor) doesn't exist anymore. It's now a law school.

Stadium West 3 (Henry) doesn't exist anymore. It's now appartments.

You forgot the new lot just East of Fine.

Spot on Extreme, the lack of parking now around the Dome is scary.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Spot on Extreme, the lack of parking now around the Dome is scary.

Hopefully the spots lost at Henry and Raynor will be made up for by the new lot. Remember that Henry was mostly busses and RV's (which have been moved up to Skytop).

 

[lincolncuse]

Where does Syracuse rank in terms of private school's football attendance? (i'm too lazy to look it up)

You want to increase attendance make Syracuse a State School.

all you have to do is look at Stanford. Think about how great they have been in recent years with a brand new stadium and they don't draw much better than SU does There are a lot of empty seats at some of their games.


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