For those are already to move on from Red

[MikeSU02]

3 years no tournament = no 4th year for me. I don't care how many wins you get anymore that isn't a measure of success. Making the tournament is. I would rather have 18 wins and make the tournament than 22 wins and miss. The total number of wins now means very little overall.

Against bad teams you need 15+ point wins on a constant basis and you need to beat the Q2 and Q3 by any means necessary and then you need to sprinkle in a few Q1 wins. Your losses can only be Q1 and Q2 losses maybe 1 random Q3 but anything lower will kill you.

Yeah, we all know the rules of the game now. Can't blame the NET or any other criteria anymore.

 

[Sbucketball]

3 years no tournament = no 4th year for me. I don't care how many wins you get anymore that isn't a measure of success. Making the tournament is. I would rather have 18 wins and make the tournament than 22 wins and miss. The total number of wins now means very little overall.

Against bad teams you need 15+ point wins on a constant basis and you need to beat the Q2 and Q3 by any means necessary and then you need to sprinkle in a few Q1 wins. Your losses can only be Q1 and Q2 losses maybe 1 random Q3 but anything lower will kill you.

Yup and given the portal, do it in 3 years or don't do it at all. Making sure you have enough NIL resources, constructing a workable roster, making sure guys go to class and stay eligible, making sure guys have good attitudes -- that's all on the coach. IMHO there's really no excuse that flies.

 

[atlanticuse]

wondering what Red's interview was like ... what he said his plan was.

Then, how he's executing on that plan and tracking to it.

Right now there's a lot of disarray on the court, but recruiting is strong. With NIL and one-and-done's, it's a tougher job than 15 years ago (when people stayed at least 2, maybe 3, years).

(would John Wallace have stayed 4 years if he played today?)

 

[atlanticuse]

3 years no tournament = no 4th year for me. I don't care how many wins you get anymore that isn't a measure of success. Making the tournament is. I would rather have 18 wins and make the tournament than 22 wins and miss. The total number of wins now means very little overall.

Against bad teams you need 15+ point wins on a constant basis and you need to beat the Q2 and Q3 by any means necessary and then you need to sprinkle in a few Q1 wins. Your losses can only be Q1 and Q2 losses maybe 1 random Q3 but anything lower will kill you.

It's almost like basketball has become like football.

 

[Blanko97]

wondering what Red's interview was like ... what he said his plan was.

Then, how he's executing on that plan and tracking to it.

Right now there's a lot of disarray on the court, but recruiting is strong. With NIL and one-and-done's, it's a tougher job than 15 years ago (when people stayed at least 2, maybe 3, years).

(would John Wallace have stayed 4 years if he played today?)

An interesting question i'd also love to hear the answer to.

 

[CardiacCuse]

If your center is going cost you the season if they get hurt your roster construction is terrible. You don't need amazing centers, just a 6'10" 240-250 pounder that can rebound and be physical. Our recent backups are usually 7'3" and weigh 150 pounds and have only been playing basketball for 4 years. We have had entirely too many "project" centers that never get out of the prototype stage.

I don't want guys who "can play PG." I want a real PG and I want to spend more money on that than injury prone centers.

so why is it either a PG or a good center???

this dichotomy is baffling to me

i know we are used to JBs recent way of centers that do nothing (even though almost all of his best teams did actually have capable bigs) ...but i personally think having an offensively capable center is the difference maker in modern basketball...and is very important. look at the last 5 years of ncaa and nba...which champions had a only a stiff at center? all of the good teams have good bigs now/.

i reject this thesis that the center doesnt need to be an acutal basketball player and just a bruiser

im not saying dont get a pg...im just saying having to pick one or the other is a ridiculous premise

of course get both

 

[pwong]

We took a bus to NY last week. We will take a bus there to play Maryland in a couple of weeks.
Plan is to take a bus to B.C. and Pitt. That sound like a school that is flush with cash to but
out a coach?

Was thinking about this earlier, Auburn became a unstoppable after their fight on their flight. We can’t even afford our own flight fight to become a better basketball team

 

[CuseCPT]

so why is it either a PG or a good center???

this dichotomy is baffling to me

i know we are used to JBs recent way of centers that do nothing (even though almost all of his best teams did actually have capable bigs) ...but i personally think having an offensively capable center is the difference maker in modern basketball...and is very important. look at the last 5 years of ncaa and nba...which champions had a only a stiff at center? all of the good teams have good bigs now/.

i reject this thesis that the center doesnt need to be an acutal basketball player and just a bruiser

im not saying dont get a pg...im just saying having to pick one or the other is a ridiculous premise

of course get both

Because we keep getting told Cuse is behind in terms on NIL. So if we don't have the money to get a really center and a really good PG, I think we need to focus on getting a really good PG and save some money at the C position. We were also told the C's cost the most. Yet another reason to spend our limited resources on a PG.

 

[DoctahLexus]

If your center is going cost you the season if they get hurt your roster construction is terrible. You don't need amazing centers, just a 6'10" 240-250 pounder that can rebound and be physical. Our recent backups are usually 7'3" and weigh 150 pounds and have only been playing basketball for 4 years. We have had entirely too many "project" centers that never get out of the prototype stage.

I don't want guys who "can play PG." I want a real PG and I want to spend more money on that than injury prone centers.

Lamkin played 28 mins a game for 37 games last season. It is not some given that he was going to struggle with an injury this year. The injury also does not appear to be a major one, and I am sure we will see a better version of him in the near future. He has already had some excellent games for us and I am confident he will continue to once he gets his health in a better spot.

The "real pg" is more illusive than people realize. If we spent on a guy likely in our budget like Leffew, who does not quite check all the "real pg" boxes, while also having zero post game because we brought in a far worse center and forward than Lampkin and Davis, I really do not think our outlook changes much this season. We would have to go another level up in money that I do not even know we can reach to get that guy who is both a "real pg" like Carlos, but also capable of scoring/playmaking/defending at the very highest level. And then what money is left for the frontcourt after that? We lost 4 guys from our frontcourt from last year and have only a truly injury prone center in McLeod left over.

We had the second highest scorer in the acc, 4th in assists, 2nd in steals, and we were still well below are standard last year, in part because the frontcourt was beyond weak. To spend boatloads to just bring in a guy about as good on paper as Mintz, while going cheaper in the frontcourt and bringing in guys considerably worse than Lampkin and Davis, would also disappoint. And if that pg guy gets hurt, it would also cost us the season without question.

I am not fully defending Reds moves, becuase his talent evaluation of Carlos was clearly lacking, but I also do not think pursuing a quality center was automoatically the wrong move. I am hoping JJ and Moore can take us somewhere as the plan B.

 

[Cappy3]

Because we keep getting told Cuse is behind in terms on NIL. So if we don't have the money to get a really center and a really good PG, I think we need to focus on getting a really good PG and save some money at the C position. We were also told the C's cost the most. Yet another reason to spend our limited resources on a PG.

There aren’t many “really good point guards” out there. Leffew is a combo guard, not a true point, and is averaging 3 assists and 1.8 turnovers, hardly “really good point guard” stats. FWIW Carlos is at 3.2 to 0.8, much better at the key quality for a point. Not saying Carlos is good, but pointing out there aren’t that many true point guard types available (particularly if you want guys with at least high mid-major experience) and the ones that are available have many suitors with deep pockets.

 

[bballbeadle]

And just so people know as well- Fran raised $5m the first week he was here. He didn’t sleep and went business to business and met with a lot of people to get things to where they are now for football. Alex and Red are out in the community Iike crazy, but they weren’t asking like Fran was asking. Until now and I expect them to continue to be upfront about what they need for the future

So I am not rich, but if I donated $500 where would I get the most bang for my buck?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

3 years no tournament = no 4th year for me.

 

[bballbeadle]

Was thinking about this earlier, Auburn became an unstoppable after their fight on their flight. We can’t even afford our own flight fight to become a better basketball team

Haven’t you ever heard of bus brawls?

 

[cuseguy]

UConn doesn’t plan to play in tourneys like Maui anymore because of travel expenses. They plan to play more home and aways with top tier teams as well as games in NYC.

 

[Millhouse]

When it comes to autry , I don't care if they're traveling to games on pogo sticks, I've seen enough

Now, buses vs planes is relevant to evaluating recruiting for the next guy

 

[MikeSU02]

Lamkin played 28 mins a game for 37 games last season. It is not some given that he was going to struggle with an injury this year. The injury also does not appear to be a major one, and I am sure we will see a better version of him in the near future. He has already had some excellent games for us and I am confident he will continue to once he gets his health in a better spot.

The "real pg" is more illusive than people realize. If we spent on a guy likely in our budget like Leffew, who does not quite check all the "real pg" boxes, while also having zero post game because we brought in a far worse center and forward than Lampkin and Davis, I really do not think our outlook changes much this season. We would have to go another level up in money that I do not even know we can reach to get that guy who is both a "real pg" like Carlos, but also capable of scoring/playmaking/defending at the very highest level. And then what money is left for the frontcourt after that? We lost 4 guys from our frontcourt from last year and have only a truly injury prone center in McLeod left over.

We had the second highest scorer in the acc, 4th in assists, 2nd in steals, and we were still well below are standard last year, in part because the frontcourt was beyond weak. To spend boatloads to just bring in a guy about as good on paper as Mintz, while going cheaper in the frontcourt and bringing in guys considerably worse than Lampkin and Davis, would also disappoint. And if that pg guy gets hurt, it would also cost us the season without question.

I am not fully defending Reds moves, becuase his talent evaluation of Carlos was clearly lacking, but I also do not think pursuing a quality center was automoatically the wrong move. I am hoping JJ and Moore can take us somewhere as the plan B.

TCU made Lampkin lose 70 pounds between his frosh and soph year. That year was also his best year ever.

Lampkin played with three NBA players last year.

Lampkin has not been and is not in shape.

All back injuries are serious, especially for someone his size, especially for someone his size and his fitness level.

 

[DoctahLexus]

TCU made Lampkin lose 70 pounds between his frosh and soph year. That year was also his best year ever.

Lampkin played with three NBA players last year.

Lampkin has not been and is not in shape.

All back injuries are serious, especially for someone his size, especially for someone his size and his fitness level.

Last year was his best year so far. He balled out in March madness with everything on the line. They do not get past the play-in game without him last year, even with those three NBA players. A nagging injury is still better than what JJ apparently has or a persistent lower body injury like McLeod last year and maybe this year. He has already gutted it out and played some big games for us this season, even with the injury. It is not set in stone that he will never fully recover from this. He is a dawg. Lets not give up on him.

 

[FrancoPizza]

TCU made Lampkin lose 70 pounds between his frosh and soph year. That year was also his best year ever.

Lampkin played with three NBA players last year.

Lampkin has not been and is not in shape.

All back injuries are serious, especially for someone his size, especially for someone his size and his fitness level.

Should've structured the NIL deal to include fitness goals.

 

[Jeremy L.]

When I was working with Connecticut's WNBA team, the only place we'd travel by bus is to New York (roughly 2.5 hour ride with traffic). Always left either after practice the night before the game or two days before for a shootaround at Barclays. Then always bussed after. Eventually players/staff had the choice of traveling on their own. The bus rides back to CT were always terrible, so I can't even imagine the ride back to Syracuse.

Additionally, I know the landscape of the WNBA now, but it blows my mind that an ACC team that's arguably a top 15 program in the history of the sport doesn't have travel funding for this. So either they're playing the "it's a short enough trip on the bus you guys will be fine" or they really are saving money to spend it elsewhere

 

[CardiacCuse]

Lamkin played 28 mins a game for 37 games last season. It is not some given that he was going to struggle with an injury this year. The injury also does not appear to be a major one, and I am sure we will see a better version of him in the near future. He has already had some excellent games for us and I am confident he will continue to once he gets his health in a better spot.

The "real pg" is more illusive than people realize. If we spent on a guy likely in our budget like Leffew, who does not quite check all the "real pg" boxes, while also having zero post game because we brought in a far worse center and forward than Lampkin and Davis, I really do not think our outlook changes much this season. We would have to go another level up in money that I do not even know we can reach to get that guy who is both a "real pg" like Carlos, but also capable of scoring/playmaking/defending at the very highest level. And then what money is left for the frontcourt after that? We lost 4 guys from our frontcourt from last year and have only a truly injury prone center in McLeod left over.

We had the second highest scorer in the acc, 4th in assists, 2nd in steals, and we were still well below are standard last year, in part because the frontcourt was beyond weak. To spend boatloads to just bring in a guy about as good on paper as Mintz, while going cheaper in the frontcourt and bringing in guys considerably worse than Lampkin and Davis, would also disappoint. And if that pg guy gets hurt, it would also cost us the season without question.

I am not fully defending Reds moves, becuase his talent evaluation of Carlos was clearly lacking, but I also do not think pursuing a quality center was automoatically the wrong move. I am hoping JJ and Moore can take us somewhere as the plan B.

big picture, i agree...center is very important. almost every single great syracuse team I can think of had good/great big men. theres been a lot of good SU teams that didnt have a great PG, or even had a combo guard or just replacement level pg, imo

but theres a lot of assumptions you make i take issue with

1. mintz was not a good pg...hes a good 1 on 5 player. huge difference. with next years roster, a guy lke mintz wouldnt make any sense at all.
2. a real pg is not as illusive as you think. just needs to be able to play the position and run the offense...shooting would be nice as well but doesnt need to score...and be able to defend. carlos was that guy - in theory - except he doesnt create anything, cant shoot and cant guard anyone over 6 ft, apparently. the theory of carlos was fine...he just cant do any of the things he was brought for.
3. bringing in leffew instead of lampkin and davis...and this team is MUCH MUCH worse...why cant people see that?
4. of course it takes two to tango...the players have to want to come to SU...but the ideas are fine. theres enough scoring at forward, guard and big that the PG doesnt need to be a ballhog, mintz type player...that would actually be a horrible fit. its not about how good a player is but how good they fit with the rest of the roster, imo.

 

[kingtidge]

big picture, i agree...center is very important. almost every single great syracuse team I can think of had good/great big men. theres been a lot of good SU teams that didnt have a great PG, or even had a combo guard or just replacement level pg,

We won the natty with Craig Forth at center...

 

[Cusefan0307]

big picture, i agree...center is very important. almost every single great syracuse team I can think of had good/great big men. theres been a lot of good SU teams that didnt have a great PG, or even had a combo guard or just replacement level pg, imo

but theres a lot of assumptions you make i take issue with

1. mintz was not a good pg...hes a good 1 on 5 player. huge difference. with next years roster, a guy lke mintz wouldnt make any sense at all.
2. a real pg is not as illusive as you think. just needs to be able to play the position and run the offense...shooting would be nice as well but doesnt need to score...and be able to defend. carlos was that guy - in theory - except he doesnt create anything, cant shoot and cant guard anyone over 6 ft, apparently. the theory of carlos was fine...he just cant do any of the things he was brought for.
3. bringing in leffew instead of lampkin and davis...and this team is MUCH MUCH worse...why cant people see that?
4. of course it takes two to tango...the players have to want to come to SU...but the ideas are fine. theres enough scoring at forward, guard and big that the PG doesnt need to be a ballhog, mintz type player...that would actually be a horrible fit. its not about how good a player is but how good they fit with the rest of the roster, imo.

Strongly disagree. Arinze and RJ were great post players, but Fab, Rak and Baye were just good to great defensive centers from 2011-2014. Those teams were guard driven. If you ask me if I would rather have Lampkin or a Michael Carter Williams type player I am picking MCW every time. Then there's 2003.

 

[CardiacCuse]

We won the natty wit Craig Forth at center...

thats why i said almost...melo still dominated the glass as a forward on that team as well as warrick...the 2 forwards were basically nba all star level talents...so yeah


get a scrub at center if you have 2 nba forwards, fine

what other SU team was good without a decent big???????????????????????????

 

[CardiacCuse]

Strongly disagree. Arinze and RJ were great post players, but Fab, Rak and Baye were just good to great defensive centers from 2011-2014. Those teams were guard driven. If you ask me if I would rather have Lampkin or a Michael Carter Williams type player I am picking MCW every time. Then there's 2003.

fab and rak were 5stars and both got drafted in the NBA, fwiw...yeah I wish we could have those types of guys be our throwaway options at center smh

im not sure we are actually disagreeing here...

in my opinion a lot of the guards...like scoop or those types of players were not close to being the best on the roster on some of the best SU teams...a guy like rautins who came good as a senior...did not look the part his first year or two imo...etc etc...theres been a lot of PG misses lately...so of course I realize how important PG is

of course I want good guards lol...im just saying...having guys like maliq brown or mastejorovic or dolzaj play center should be OFF THE TABLE. not even an option...and yet...it has been the case for years now...bean pole centers who also cannpt threaten in the post...leads to a horrible offense...and a team with a low ceiling...thing is there really arent that many centers out there who are actually good enough...meanwhile theres hundreds of 6 foot guys who are. its statistics.

for the record i wanted Malik mack or kadary this offseason as my first wish in the portal... i wanted a dynamic guard...and was disappointed at who the staff ultimately landed at guard in the portal...the backcourt is a disaster, imo...theres like 6 guards on the roster and none of them are good PGs...which makes zero sense (unless westry is that guy and hasnt been playing due to reds coaching decisions...which is what i suspect)

 

[Cusefan0307]

fab and rak were 5stars and both got drafted in the NBA, fwiw...yeah I wish we could have those types of guys be our throwaway options at center smh

im not sure we are actually disagreeing here...

in my opinion a lot of the guards...like scoop or those types of players were not close to being the best on the roster on some of the best SU teams...a guy like rautins who came good as a senior...did not look the part his first year or two imo...etc etc...theres been a lot of PG misses lately...so of course I realize how important PG is

of course I want good guards lol...im just saying...having guys like maliq brown or mastejorovic or dolzaj play center should be OFF THE TABLE. not even an option...and yet...it has been the case for years now...bean pole centers who also cannpt threaten in the post...leads to a horrible offense...and a team with a low ceiling...thing is there really arent that many centers out there who are actually good enough...meanwhile theres hundreds of 6 foot guys who are. its statistics.

for the record i wanted Malik mack or kadary this offseason as my first wish in the portal... i wanted a dynamic guard...and was disappointed at who the staff ultimately landed at guard in the portal...the backcourt is a disaster, imo...theres like 6 guards on the roster and none of them are good PGs...which makes zero sense (unless westry is that guy and hasnt been playing due to reds coaching decisions...which is what i suspect)

Maliq Brown played center for Duke against Kansas and got their All American Center ejected. I'd 100% take him at center this year over Lampkin.

I am just saying I'd rather have a pg than a center. I think we are seeing that play out this year.