Free pass? | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Free pass?

The RB that Dino ran off remember... Jordan Fredricks.

Medical killed our DL, not Shafer

I've already posted my opinion on the rest and repeating is pointless so just agree to disagree for now.
 
It's fun being able to weed out the Shafer loyalist's. There are only a handful or 2, but it's pretty obvious. I just don't get what everyone is all upset about? Because he didn't get year 4 in what was becoming a complete disaster? There was nothing that we saw in years 1-3 that would give any glimmer of hope that the man could handle being an ACC HC, let alone a HC at any level. All year 4 would have done was extend the inevitable.

Just because you brought it up in the other thread, Shafer's recruiting was atrocious. Part of the problem with this years team is there is no quality depth with the upperclassmen. There is no offensive line and 1 offensive playmaker. Once you got past the top 5 recruits in each class we were basically looking at FCS level talent. Dino's 2017 recruiting class was exceptional and his 2018 class is shaping up to be the best class since the early 2000's.

When it came to game planning there wasn't 1 game he coached the team to a win over a better opponent. In fact, most of the time we got brought out behind the woodshed for a beat down. Everyone gets on Marrone, but there were several times he schemed a win, and he very rarely got blown out with piss poor talent. In 14 games at least Dino has already proven he came win a game he isn't expected to.

Moving on. When it comes to style Shafer never had a defined identity. You tell me what those teams were? HardNosed? Hell no. Those teams were soft as charmin. At first they were supposed to be the Baylor of the north with this up tempo offense. I don't need to mention that was an utter failure. The defense had the identity of a kamikaze blitzing that would get beat over te top with any sort of play action or pump fake. But basically his whole tenure there was no identity. With Babers you know what you are getting, or at least you know what he ultimately wants to do once he gets his guys in here. He's going to spread you out, speed you up, and eventually run the ball right down your throat. Defensively it's Tampa 2 and that's what they are recruiting too. The defense needed to be over hauled more than anything. Wwith the collection of peewee sized db's, that was the exact opposite of what was needed. They got hammered defensively last year, but you can already see massive improvements once he has the type of player in that better fits that style. I truly beloeve the same will eventually happen with the offense. There is no changing of strategy from recruiting class to recruiting class like with Shafer. He is targeting the type of recruit that will excel in his style and it will eventually show on the field.

Now am I happy with Saturday's result? Absolutely not. Losing to MTSU under any circumstance is unacceptable and Babers should be held responsible. The only difference I feel with this loss is that I believe things are going in the right direction. I saw enough adjustments that were made that I was satisfied, but ultimately the kids need to make the plays.
 
anomander said:
It's fun being able to weed out the Shafer loyalist's. There are only a handful or 2, but it's pretty obvious. I just don't get what everyone is all upset about? Because he didn't get year 4 in what was becoming a complete disaster? There was nothing that we saw in years 1-3 that would give any glimmer of hope that the man could handle being an ACC HC, let alone a HC at any level. All year 4 would have done was extend the inevitable.

Just because you brought it up in the other thread, Shafer's recruiting was atrocious. Part of the problem with this years team is there is no quality depth with the upperclassmen. There is no offensive line and 1 offensive playmaker. Once you got past the top 5 recruits in each class we were basically looking at FCS level talent. Dino's 2017 recruiting class was exceptional and his 2018 class is shaping up to be the best class since the early 2000's.

When it came to game planning there wasn't 1 game he coached the team to a win over a better opponent. In fact, most of the time we got brought out behind the woodshed for a beat down. Everyone gets on Marrone, but there were several times he schemed a win, and he very rarely got blown out with piss poor talent. In 14 games at least Dino has already proven he came win a game he isn't expected to.

Moving on. When it comes to style Shafer never had a defined identity. You tell me what those teams were? HardNosed? Hell no. Those teams were soft as charmin. At first they were supposed to be the Baylor of the north with this up tempo offense. I don't need to mention that was an utter failure. The defense had the identity of a kamikaze blitzing that would get beat over te top with any sort of play action or pump fake. But basically his whole tenure there was no identity. With Babers you know what you are getting, or at least you know what he ultimately wants to do once he gets his guys in here. He's going to spread you out, speed you up, and eventually run the ball right down your throat. Defensively it's Tampa 2 and that's what they are recruiting too. The defense needed to be over hauled more than anything. Wwith the collection of peewee sized db's, that was the exact opposite of what was needed. They got hammered defensively last year, but you can already see massive improvements once he has the type of player in that better fits that style. I truly beloeve the same will eventually happen with the offense. There is no changing of strategy from recruiting class to recruiting class like with Shafer. He is targeting the type of recruit that will excel in his style and it will eventually show on the field.

Now am I happy with Saturday's result? Absolutely not. Losing to MTSU under any circumstance is unacceptable and Babers should be held responsible. The only difference I feel with this loss is that I believe things are going in the right direction. I saw enough adjustments that were made that I was satisfied, but ultimately the kids need to make the plays.
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My vote for post of the day
 
Pyle said:
The RB that Dino ran off remember... Jordan Fredricks.

Medical killed our DL, not Shafer

I've already posted my opinion on the rest and repeating is pointless so just agree to disagree for now.
Expand...

Fredericks couldn't make the calls at the line. It's his fault that he is at UMass or wherever.

Medical disqualified two players on our line this year, one of whom came in earlier this summer and had nothing to do with SS. It would be nice to have Clark this year, but we had Clark last year when our line was 5x worse. I'm sorry, but I think you're fighting a losing battle here.
 
anomander said:
It's fun being able to weed out the Shafer loyalist's. There are only a handful or 2, but it's pretty obvious. I just don't get what everyone is all upset about? Because he didn't get year 4 in what was becoming a complete disaster? There was nothing that we saw in years 1-3 that would give any glimmer of hope that the man could handle being an ACC HC, let alone a HC at any level. All year 4 would have done was extend the inevitable.

Just because you brought it up in the other thread, Shafer's recruiting was atrocious. Part of the problem with this years team is there is no quality depth with the upperclassmen. There is no offensive line and 1 offensive playmaker. Once you got past the top 5 recruits in each class we were basically looking at FCS level talent. Dino's 2017 recruiting class was exceptional and his 2018 class is shaping up to be the best class since the early 2000's.

When it came to game planning there wasn't 1 game he coached the team to a win over a better opponent. In fact, most of the time we got brought out behind the woodshed for a beat down. Everyone gets on Marrone, but there were several times he schemed a win, and he very rarely got blown out with piss poor talent. In 14 games at least Dino has already proven he came win a game he isn't expected to.

Moving on. When it comes to style Shafer never had a defined identity. You tell me what those teams were? HardNosed? Hell no. Those teams were soft as charmin. At first they were supposed to be the Baylor of the north with this up tempo offense. I don't need to mention that was an utter failure. The defense had the identity of a kamikaze blitzing that would get beat over te top with any sort of play action or pump fake. But basically his whole tenure there was no identity. With Babers you know what you are getting, or at least you know what he ultimately wants to do once he gets his guys in here. He's going to spread you out, speed you up, and eventually run the ball right down your throat. Defensively it's Tampa 2 and that's what they are recruiting too. The defense needed to be over hauled more than anything. Wwith the collection of peewee sized db's, that was the exact opposite of what was needed. They got hammered defensively last year, but you can already see massive improvements once he has the type of player in that better fits that style. I truly beloeve the same will eventually happen with the offense. There is no changing of strategy from recruiting class to recruiting class like with Shafer. He is targeting the type of recruit that will excel in his style and it will eventually show on the field.

Now am I happy with Saturday's result? Absolutely not. Losing to MTSU under any circumstance is unacceptable and Babers should be held responsible. The only difference I feel with this loss is that I believe things are going in the right direction. I saw enough adjustments that were made that I was satisfied, but ultimately the kids need to make the plays.
Expand...
I heard the exact same arguments made for Robinson about P. Like almost verbatim deja vu like. Bottom line short term...Shafer never lost to CMU, they are coming this weekemd. Pressures on.
 
sdhall01 said:
Fredericks couldn't make the calls at the line. It's his fault that he is at UMass or wherever.

Medical disqualified two players on our line this year, one of whom came in earlier this summer and had nothing to do with SS. It would be nice to have Clark this year, but we had Clark last year when our line was 5x worse. I'm sorry, but I think you're fighting a losing battle here.
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Official Site of Western Michigan Athletics

4 tackles at USC, 5 at Michigan State. Not too shabby.
 
Pyle said:
I heard the exact same arguments made for Robinson about P. Like almost verbatim deja vu like. Shafer
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P had to go.
It had run the course after 15 years.

The hiring of Greg Robinson who was an awful NFL D-Coordinator who got fired from Denver and Kansas City and was the D.C. of a stacked Texas team was the dumb decision.

Gross listened to Pete Carroll who recommended Greg Robinson.

Robinson was an awful HC who did recruit better than Shafer though. But sucked at everything involved with being a HC.

Gross could have had John Harbaugh who applied for the job or Bo Pelini.

He chose poorly.

That has nothing to do with fact hiring Scott Shafer was stupid and should have never happened.
That he was an awful HC and the decision to fire him when we did was the proper decision.
 
Pyle said:
I heard the exact same arguments made for Robinson about P. Like almost verbatim deja vu like. Bottom line short term...Shafer never lost to CMU, they are coming this weekemd. Pressures on.
Expand...

Are you really comparing Babers to Gerb? What did Gerb ever do as a HC? That's right nothing because he was a career coordinator when hired. Babers has proven to be a winner at 2 different levels. What was Gerb's identity? Other than insanity there wasn't one. Babers is uptemo spread with the power run game. I'm sorry but how are they even close to the same arguments? As far as losing to MTSU. Well no Shafer never did lose to anybody like that, but having to resort to a goddman fake extra point for a 2 point conversion (which was absolutely insance decision no matter how it turned out) against Nova, and OT vs CMU might as well be equivalent. That MTSU team would beat both of those teams by 3 td's. Babers has some equity with a win vs VT. We saw hope. Nothing your boy gave us ever gave a glimmer of hope.
 
Pyle said:
I

I don't want him fired. I want people to stop blaming Shafer and saying how horrible the program was when he left. Same crap they said about P when Robinson choked.
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He inherited recruits at those other stops, that were on par, talent wise, with who they were competing against. That can't be said for him here. The gap between the inherited talent, and our peer schools is vast, and the gap between us and the top of the ACC is gargantuan. These things are not played in some sort of perfect vacuum. You're comparing apples to oranges...no pun intended.
 
TheCusian said:
Cubs, what did you think of the Cuse DL play last game? Seemed like they faded late but looked great in the 1st half
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Thought Samuels had improved since last year. He's quicker, and stronger. More importantly, it seemed to me like he knew more about what he was supposed to do. Slayton, as well. Overall, think the line's better. DEs still have some work to do, but the line as a whole has improved.
 
bcubs9497 said:
Thought Samuels had improved since last year. He's quicker, and stronger. More importantly, it seemed to me like he knew more about what he was supposed to do. Slayton, as well. Overall, think the line's better. DEs still have some work to do, but the line as a whole has improved.
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I can't believe that Alton Robinson is already on the 2 deep. That was definitely surprising.
 
The talent gap between us and our peer schools is not vast, that's laughable.
 
sdhall01 said:
Your boy is a damn fine lineman. We definitely miss him.
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Thanks.

Bear in mind that it's not the job of the DL, especially the interior guys, to sack the QB 12K times a game. The interior guys must control their gaps, defend against the run, and keep the riffraff off the LBs. DEs contain, watch for the runs, and then go after the QB. Blitzing LBs get the sacks, and the glory, more often than naught.
 
Pyle said:
Reasons why I don't think Dino should be given a free pass and needs to be held accountable now. Not fired, accountable, as in using Scott Shafer as an excuse won't cut it.

He doesn't need 3 years to bring his guys in. That's a BS blanket statement and Dino hasn't coached anywhere for 3 years yet. He's won with other coaches recruits both times. He's never even had his own guys so that statement is garbage.

People said they could feel the Gerg disaster starting as early as year 1. I'm feeling it with Dino. We gave up 50 or more points 5 times last year. That is the equivalent of Gerg's offenses failing to crack 20. On Sat we couldn't get stops when we really needed them.

Blatantly getting outcoached. We got outcoached in every aspect of the game on Sat. It wasn't Jimmy's and Joe's. It was not having the team prepared, not able to adjust, and not able to take advantage of lesser talent.

We wanted a HC with D1 experience so we didn't have to do this shiat again. We still are.
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AMEN and great post. Tired of the talent argument. We were better and yes, have a better qb and recievers.
 
bcubs9497 said:
Thanks.

Bear in mind that it's not the job of the DL, especially the interior guys, to sack the QB 12K times a game. The interior guys must control their gaps, defend against the run, and keep the riffraff off the LBs. DEs contain, watch for the runs, and then go after the QB. Blitzing LBs get the sacks, and the glory, more often than naught.
Expand...

You're definitely right. I wasn't trying to pin last year's line on your son. In fact,he was one of 2 players worth a damn. Our problem was the DEs couldn't contain because we started two true freshman at DE and had no secondary to speak of. That was Shafer's fault. A year of experience and Coleman and Black look a lot better. Robinson and Berry look good too. That's a real rotation at DE that was brought in by Babers.

As for Steven, god I wish he was here. He would definitely bolster an improving line.
 
CuseCPT said:
I didn't think we had the firepower to adjust. They had a better football team. Who do I put that on? A bunch of problems in the past but mostly SS.

Put me on record as saying Dino is not going to be a disaster.
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They had a better fb team? Lol. Seriously? Sorry, not how much fb you know or watch, but that statement is laughable.
 
Pyle said:
Reasons why I don't think Dino should be given a free pass and needs to be held accountable now. Not fired, accountable, as in using Scott Shafer as an excuse won't cut it.

He doesn't need 3 years to bring his guys in. That's a BS blanket statement and Dino hasn't coached anywhere for 3 years yet. He's won with other coaches recruits both times. He's never even had his own guys so that statement is garbage.

People said they could feel the Gerg disaster starting as early as year 1. I'm feeling it with Dino. We gave up 50 or more points 5 times last year. That is the equivalent of Gerg's offenses failing to crack 20. On Sat we couldn't get stops when we really needed them.

Blatantly getting outcoached. We got outcoached in every aspect of the game on Sat. It wasn't Jimmy's and Joe's. It was not having the team prepared, not able to adjust, and not able to take advantage of lesser talent.

We wanted a HC with D1 experience so we didn't have to do this shiat again. We still are.
Expand...

So I just need to get confirmation on something. You are saying you are feeling a disaster with Dino. Just curious did you feel the same way with Scott?
 
I say it's all still P and Jakes fault. If sJake didn't retire we wouldn't have hired gross who wouldn't have fired P who wouldn't have left the cupboards bare for Grob who wouldn't have read the little engine that could so no Binder who sucked so SS who never deserved a coaching job to begin with right?
sdhall01 said:
You're definitely right. I wasn't trying to pin last year's line on your son. In fact,he was one of 2 players worth a damn. Our problem was the DEs couldn't contain because we started two true freshman at DE and had no secondary to speak of. That was Shafer's fault. A year of experience and Coleman and Black look a lot better. Robinson and Berry look good too. That's a real rotation at DE that was brought in by Babers.

As for Steven, god I wish he was here. He would definitely bolster an improving line.
Expand...
 
Pyle said:
I say it's all still P and Jakes fault. If sJake didn't retire we wouldn't have hired gross who wouldn't have fired P who wouldn't have left the cupboards bare for Grob who wouldn't have read the little engine that could so no Binder who sucked so SS who never deserved a coaching job to begin with right?
Expand...

I would settle for Gross hiring literally anybody else other than Gerg. Ugh . . .
 
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