Free pass?

[RandomGuy]

Well you must have missed the adjustment where after the first 3 drives they were -26 yards and the offensive line was giving free runs at Dungey.

No. 5 guys can't block 7. The coaching staff was giving free runs at Dungey. They weren't prepared for an overload blitz. They didn't audible, or put in play calls to cover it... I know the O-line is a work in progress, but you are simplifying, to place the blame on them...That's fine. Re-Watch it. They were more concerned with 4/5 wide... More concerned with having a TE go on a route, than picking up a blocking assignment. They didn't want to have 1 RB picking up blocks, let alone a TE to pick up the overload on the left... 1st Q? I can't put it on the line. There was nothing in place to fix it. That's coaching, and at least Baber's owned it for a little bit...

 

[Ish88888]

Ya you're right, but that's if you don't count the best players; Butler, Martin, Foster (most talented), and Scoop (signed by Babers).

Man you're on a level of your own.

Whatever, just the facts. Butler hasn't given anything yet. Scoop has been marginal. Like butler. But SS recruits are all over the roster.

 

[anomander]

Lol,,if you think the assistants are ok with the strength coach being the only one to address the team along with DINO, you are delirious. Dino is a control freak, beyond the level Saban is, as saban lets his assistants talk. We moved the ball in the 2nd half only bc we got desperate, not smart. We started using ED as the primary runner. Pathetic.

It's amazing how often you're wrong about so many things. The strength coach is the Assistant HC. That's the ASSISTANT HC. None of the coordinators, or position coaches are the ASSISTANT HC. Nobody spends more time with the guys then the strength coach does. It's actually pretty smart that he is the ASSISTANT HC since he is the one implementing what Dino's culture when other coaches can't be around the players.

As far as running Dungey, well Dungey isn't the player he is if you take away his legs. He's not a guy that can just drop back and sling it all game. MTSU was selling out on the RB, they ran Dungey because they had to. Why would they take away his greatest strength? I'm past worrying about him getting injured. He has to play his game for him to be the player that earned him the recognition in the first place.

 

[anomander]

Whatever, just the facts. Butler hasn't given anything yet. Scoop has been marginal. Like butler. But SS recruits are all over the roster.

I hope so, they're the upperclassmen. Butler has been outstanding when he's on the field. Foster is a top 3 defender on the team. Martin is very good as well. Not sure what facts you're referring to.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Babers gets an indefinite pass from me. He's trying to bring an offense into the Dome. It's about time. I sat through decades of pissing away the Dome's inherent advantages. Babers, or whomever may come after him, get a pass so long as they're trying to bring offense.

 

[MSOrange]

Adjustments? In game? Seriously? The only offensive adjustment was making ED THE feature running threat in the option game. That got him hit 20 times. We continued to play offense and NOT challenge the middle. People don't get how serious this is. It's over 60% of the field that we refused to challenge. We ran the same 3-4 plays all game. The players were not put in a position to win. All on DINO and Lewis ! Anyone hear from Lewis? Oh wait, we only know he likes drake in Twitter. Great.

Just FYI, I agree with your frustration over the loss But you don't really help your own credibility when you keep complaining about things that just don't matter, like the assistants talking to the media. Who cares? Unless you can explain how listening to a few minutes of coach speak would make any difference at all.

 

[blizz]

After you take a deeeeeeeep breath, please tell me exactly what you mean by he "needs to be held accountable now". What does that mean? Serious question. He's already accountable. The loss goes on his record, not the OC or DC. What do you want to do, take away his jet privileges?

Chop off one of his fingers and feed it to your unicorn.

Better yet, cut his pay...never miss an opportunity to save a few.

 

[tipphill]

Reasons why I don't think Dino should be given a free pass and needs to be held accountable now. Not fired, accountable, as in using Scott Shafer as an excuse won't cut it.

He doesn't need 3 years to bring his guys in. That's a BS blanket statement and Dino hasn't coached anywhere for 3 years yet. He's won with other coaches recruits both times. He's never even had his own guys so that statement is garbage.

People said they could feel the Gerg disaster starting as early as year 1. I'm feeling it with Dino. We gave up 50 or more points 5 times last year. That is the equivalent of Gerg's offenses failing to crack 20. On Sat we couldn't get stops when we really needed them.

Blatantly getting outcoached. We got outcoached in every aspect of the game on Sat. It wasn't Jimmy's and Joe's. It was not having the team prepared, not able to adjust, and not able to take advantage of lesser talent.

We wanted a HC with D1 experience so we didn't have to do this shiat again. We still are.

i am not sure they had lesser talent. their qb wr and rb certainly were better. their team was faster.

 

[Alsacs]

Dumb post, this thread isn't about THAT.

What I said is a fact. Shafer is greatest 14-23 coach of alltime.

 

[TheCusian]

i am not sure they had lesser talent. their qb wr and rb certainly were better. their team was faster.

I'd take 1 WR, 1 QB, and 1 DE off that team. The WR would def start for us. Maybe the DE.

There are a lot of positions on a football team. We were more talented

 

[007]

Bipolar Fan Disorder (BFD)

"A major affective disorder in which a certain population any fan base alternates between states of deep depression and extreme euphoria."

 

[JackBauer44]

It's fun being able to weed out the Shafer loyalist's. There are only a handful or 2, but it's pretty obvious. I just don't get what everyone is all upset about? Because he didn't get year 4 in what was becoming a complete disaster? There was nothing that we saw in years 1-3 that would give any glimmer of hope that the man could handle being an ACC HC, let alone a HC at any level. All year 4 would have done was extend the inevitable.

Just because you brought it up in the other thread, Shafer's recruiting was atrocious. Part of the problem with this years team is there is no quality depth with the upperclassmen. There is no offensive line and 1 offensive playmaker. Once you got past the top 5 recruits in each class we were basically looking at FCS level talent. Dino's 2017 recruiting class was exceptional and his 2018 class is shaping up to be the best class since the early 2000's.

When it came to game planning there wasn't 1 game he coached the team to a win over a better opponent. In fact, most of the time we got brought out behind the woodshed for a beat down. Everyone gets on Marrone, but there were several times he schemed a win, and he very rarely got blown out with piss poor talent. In 14 games at least Dino has already proven he came win a game he isn't expected to.

Moving on. When it comes to style Shafer never had a defined identity. You tell me what those teams were? HardNosed? Hell no. Those teams were soft as charmin. At first they were supposed to be the Baylor of the north with this up tempo offense. I don't need to mention that was an utter failure. The defense had the identity of a kamikaze blitzing that would get beat over te top with any sort of play action or pump fake. But basically his whole tenure there was no identity. With Babers you know what you are getting, or at least you know what he ultimately wants to do once he gets his guys in here. He's going to spread you out, speed you up, and eventually run the ball right down your throat. Defensively it's Tampa 2 and that's what they are recruiting too. The defense needed to be over hauled more than anything. Wwith the collection of peewee sized db's, that was the exact opposite of what was needed. They got hammered defensively last year, but you can already see massive improvements once he has the type of player in that better fits that style. I truly beloeve the same will eventually happen with the offense. There is no changing of strategy from recruiting class to recruiting class like with Shafer. He is targeting the type of recruit that will excel in his style and it will eventually show on the field.

Now am I happy with Saturday's result? Absolutely not. Losing to MTSU under any circumstance is unacceptable and Babers should be held responsible. The only difference I feel with this loss is that I believe things are going in the right direction. I saw enough adjustments that were made that I was satisfied, but ultimately the kids need to make the plays.

This times 1000. Great post.

 

[JackBauer44]

Lol,,if you think the assistants are ok with the strength coach being the only one to address the team along with DINO, you are delirious. Dino is a control freak, beyond the level Saban is, as saban lets his assistants talk. We moved the ball in the 2nd half only bc we got desperate, not smart. We started using ED as the primary runner. Pathetic.

I'm posting without reading others so apologize if someone has stated this. It's not desperate to run your QB when it's the only running you can do to keep players in the box and not dropping people into mass protect. When your offensive line is on ice skates from a 4/5 man pass rush, you have to figure out how to move the ball on the ground. When you do that, the DL has to change their responsibilities. Gap Fit. Pass Rush. Run Reads. Zone Fit. The coaching staff knew they needed to run the ball to open up the pass a bit, and they did it with Dungey. That's not desperate. That's figuring out a way to even the field.

 

[tipphill]

It's amazing how often you're wrong about so many things. The strength coach is the Assistant HC. That's the ASSISTANT HC. None of the coordinators, or position coaches are the ASSISTANT HC. Nobody spends more time with the guys then the strength coach does. It's actually pretty smart that he is the ASSISTANT HC since he is the one implementing what Dino's culture when other coaches can't be around the players.

As far as running Dungey, well Dungey isn't the player he is if you take away his legs. He's not a guy that can just drop back and sling it all game. MTSU was selling out on the RB, they ran Dungey because they had to. Why would they take away his greatest strength? I'm past worrying about him getting injured. He has to play his game for him to be the player that earned him the recognition in the first place.

i agree with what you said. nevertheless, they sold out because we have no ol to assure that we have a running game, they knew we can't throw north and south and our only game is dungey and sideline passing. i thought they had a good game plan and exploited our weaknesses. i am at a loss as to what dino will do. perhaps look at other personnel. by the way, i thought mahony did well in his short time. he seemed to inject some life into the offense. just sayin.
dungey can't sling it all game as he gets no protection and has no one to sling it to that is consistent.

 

[ForeverOrange]

Chop off one of his fingers and feed it to your unicorn.

Better yet, cut his pay...never miss an opportunity to save a few.

Just my opinion but watching that game, it felt like we had complete control until that punt return mishap. It just seemed like we lost momentum and could never regain it.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Bipolar Fan Disorder (BFD)

"A major affective disorder in which a certain population any fan base alternates between states of deep depression and extreme euphoria."

A kind way of saying some on here are psychotic.

 

[RF2044]

It's fun being able to weed out the Shafer loyalist's. There are only a handful or 2, but it's pretty obvious. I just don't get what everyone is all upset about? Because he didn't get year 4 in what was becoming a complete disaster? There was nothing that we saw in years 1-3 that would give any glimmer of hope that the man could handle being an ACC HC, let alone a HC at any level. All year 4 would have done was extend the inevitable.

Just because you brought it up in the other thread, Shafer's recruiting was atrocious. Part of the problem with this years team is there is no quality depth with the upperclassmen. There is no offensive line and 1 offensive playmaker. Once you got past the top 5 recruits in each class we were basically looking at FCS level talent. Dino's 2017 recruiting class was exceptional and his 2018 class is shaping up to be the best class since the early 2000's.

When it came to game planning there wasn't 1 game he coached the team to a win over a better opponent. In fact, most of the time we got brought out behind the woodshed for a beat down. Everyone gets on Marrone, but there were several times he schemed a win, and he very rarely got blown out with piss poor talent. In 14 games at least Dino has already proven he came win a game he isn't expected to.

Moving on. When it comes to style Shafer never had a defined identity. You tell me what those teams were? HardNosed? Hell no. Those teams were soft as charmin. At first they were supposed to be the Baylor of the north with this up tempo offense. I don't need to mention that was an utter failure. The defense had the identity of a kamikaze blitzing that would get beat over te top with any sort of play action or pump fake. But basically his whole tenure there was no identity. With Babers you know what you are getting, or at least you know what he ultimately wants to do once he gets his guys in here. He's going to spread you out, speed you up, and eventually run the ball right down your throat. Defensively it's Tampa 2 and that's what they are recruiting too. The defense needed to be over hauled more than anything. Wwith the collection of peewee sized db's, that was the exact opposite of what was needed. They got hammered defensively last year, but you can already see massive improvements once he has the type of player in that better fits that style. I truly beloeve the same will eventually happen with the offense. There is no changing of strategy from recruiting class to recruiting class like with Shafer. He is targeting the type of recruit that will excel in his style and it will eventually show on the field.

Now am I happy with Saturday's result? Absolutely not. Losing to MTSU under any circumstance is unacceptable and Babers should be held responsible. The only difference I feel with this loss is that I believe things are going in the right direction. I saw enough adjustments that were made that I was satisfied, but ultimately the kids need to make the plays.

You have been en fuego lately.

Thank you for saying some things [across numerous threads] that needed to be said.

 

[Newhouser]

Saturday sucked. No doubt about it. Tons of reasons why. That being said, Babers has to stay. First, because his system is proven in the P5 (Baylor and Wazzu come to mind immediately), second is because there's not a coach out there, including the Almighty Saban and the Holy Dabo, who could take what we've got now and be even remotely considered as a serious contender for a divisional championship in the next year or two. At best, it'll be year 3, in my opinion, before anything REALLY positive starts to happen. Third, getting rid of Babers, or taking his legs out from under him, will seriously hinder hiring a replacement. No coach worth their salt would come into the toxic crap hole his leaving prematurely would create. In the meantime, get used to another 4-8 year, followed by a 5-7 or 6-6, before getting above .500 and becoming relevant.

Interested as someone more in touch with the college football scene - where do you see our ceiling with DB's system? Or any system in today's college environment? I agree Dino needs time (though I do think you can coach kids up and put them in a better position to win then we have seen in some games during his tenure), but I wonder if there is any system that will allow us to consistently win 8 or 9 games in the arms race that college football is today.

 

[Deano]

Official Site of Western Michigan Athletics

4 tackles at USC, 5 at Michigan State. Not too shabby.

That's pretty impressive considering he shouldn't be playing football according to one certain man

 

[bcubs9497]

Interested as someone more in touch with the college football scene - where do you see our ceiling with DB's system? Or any system in today's college environment? I agree Dino needs time (though I do think you can coach kids up and put them in a better position to win then we have seen in some games during his tenure), but I wonder if there is any system that will allow us to consistently win 8 or 9 games in the arms race that college football is today.

Offensively, Dino's system will work. Tampa 2 has GOT TO GO.

 

[reedny]

i agree with what you said. nevertheless, they sold out because we have no ol to assure that we have a running game, they knew we can't throw north and south and our only game is dungey and sideline passing. i thought they had a good game plan and exploited our weaknesses. i am at a loss as to what dino will do. perhaps look at other personnel. by the way, i thought mahony did well in his short time. he seemed to inject some life into the offense. just sayin.
dungey can't sling it all game as he gets no protection and has no one to sling it to that is consistent.

We haven't had a vertical passing game in as long as I can remember. Our RB's look scrawny and slow and our OL looks lost. Sadly, I agree MTS was better at nearly every offensive skill position: QB; RB; WR; and TE. They were also faster on defense than we were ... more team speed, better mass tackling; better pass rush; better sideline to sideline; and MUCH better coverage in the secondary. We looked anemic offensively in the first half and mediocre defensively. Then we just STB on D the second half as the FCS team we were playing racked up chunk play after chunk play. Our longest [correction] completion was 16 yards.

Don't look for attendance to improve anytime soon. We're going to get pasted against the top 4-5 teams in our division.

 

[Pyle]

We haven't had a vertical passing game in as long as I can remember. Our RB's look scrawny and slow and our OL looks lost. Sadly, I agree MTS was better at nearly every offensive skill position: QB; RB; WR; and TE. They were also faster on defense than we were ... more team speed, better mass tackling; better pass rush; better sideline to sideline; and MUCH better coverage in the secondary. We looked anemic offensively in the first half and mediocre defensively. Then we just STB on D the second half as the FCS team we were playing racked up chunk play after chunk play. Our longest play was 16 yards.

Don't look for attendance to improve anytime soon. We're going to get pasted against the top 4-5 teams in our division.

The recruit annually in the 80s. Stop acting like this was Da U or Bama. Do you guys really believe this nonsense? That they were so much more talented than us? Shafer recruited in the 50s. You're making excuses and they don't fly. Are we more talented than VT? No, we simply beat them last year because they weren't prepared. And neither were we.

 

[TheCusian]

We haven't had a vertical passing game in as long as I can remember. Our RB's look scrawny and slow and our OL looks lost. Sadly, I agree MTS was better at nearly every offensive skill position: QB; RB; WR; and TE. They were also faster on defense than we were ... more team speed, better mass tackling; better pass rush; better sideline to sideline; and MUCH better coverage in the secondary. We looked anemic offensively in the first half and mediocre defensively. Then we just STB on D the second half as the FCS team we were playing racked up chunk play after chunk play. Our longest play was 16 yards.

Don't look for attendance to improve anytime soon. We're going to get pasted against the top 4-5 teams in our division.

They didn't get pressure unless they were blitzing. We got more done with our DL than they did, by far. The D created 2 TO's and held them to 7 points for the half. That's better than mediocre. Dungey had a 29 yard run for a TD in the 4th Q to tie the game.

 

[TheCusian]

The recruit annually in the 80s. Stop acting like this was Da U or Bama. Do you guys really believe this nonsense? That they were so much more talented than us? Shafer recruited in the 50s. You're making excuses and they don't fly. Are we more talented than VT? No, we simply beat them last year because they weren't prepared. And neither were we.

They had an SEC DE and the QB transferred from Cinci when they were good. The WR had p5 offers. Those players were as good as ours.

 

[Pyle]

They had an SEC DE and the QB transferred from Cinci when they were good. The WR had p5 offers. Those players were as good as ours.

That's not what people are saying. They are saying that MTSU was flat out MORE talented than we are. I agree they had some players on our level. I do not agree that they were a superior team athletically to us. The post I was replying to said that MTSU was better than us at almost every position. That is what I take issue to, those are the apologists I've been arguing with since yesterday, those are the same guys who said Grob just needed to time to fix P's mess.