Freeh Report confirms the worst | Page 6 | Syracusefan.com

Freeh Report confirms the worst

can somebody get jay paterno to shut up??

good lord listening to him defend everything its annoying as all hell.

The good news for Jay is that he doesn't have to worry about working again. At least not as a college football assistant coach (he never had to worry about being a head coach, the apple fell way too far from the tree).
 
What was their point in the letter to PedSt back in November, then a follow-up, then their statement yesterday? If you say it's all for show, then that I can understand. But I don't see anyplace where the NCAA themselves have said or done anything that says they don't think it is their jurisdiction or its outside their manual or anything of the nature people are saying here. It's the talking heads and lawyers they are asking where these ideas are coming from. The NCAA on at least 2 occasions has quoted the morals, ethics and institutional control sections of their manual.

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The NCAA is doing there due diligence as they would for any national scandal of this kind of proportion especially one involving kids. They can send all the letters and issue all the statements they want in the end there going to probably give a slap on the wrist or the out of our jurisdiction excuse. Baylor didnt even get the death penalty or program altering sanctions for attempting to cover up the murder of a teammate. I just dont see where the NCAA is going to do anythign about it.
 
Because many of the crimes took place while he was a football coach or took place in football facilities or were covered up by the football coach. The womens basketball coach wasn't a factor at all.

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He covered up a horrific crime that after 98 or whenever he was forced outno longer involved a coach. Look what happened was beyond inexecusable and I agree punishment to the highest level should be sought in court but its not the NCAA's jurisdiction it doesn't involve anything to do with PSU getting any sort of advantage on or off the field or with the student athletes themselves which is what the NCAA is there to monitor. Who is exactly is the NCAA going to punish with Joe PA dead, Sandusky rotting in jail and everyone else fired.
 
He covered up a horrific crime that after 98 or whenever he was forced outno longer involved a coach. Look what happened was beyond inexecusable and I agree punishment to the highest level should be sought in court but its not the NCAA's jurisdiction it doesn't involve anything to do with PSU getting any sort of advantage on or off the field or with the student athletes themselves which is what the NCAA is there to monitor. Who is exactly is the NCAA going to punish with Joe PA dead, Sandusky rotting in jail and everyone else fired.
They did get an advantage in that they avoided bad publicity and diminished fan support and recruiting. the whole cover-up was for the benefit of the football program. They would not have done it other than for that fact.
 
Clearly Chambers and others were convinced that the pattern was one of pedophelia - that Sandusky was engaging in the the process of "grooming."

And clearly many in law enforcment tried to convince Seasock that his conclusion was way off base.

So, yes you and I agree that many got it right in 1998, and Seasock got it wrong - way wrong.

And yes, we apparently agree that the DA chose not to prosecute and likely chose not to do so because he could hang his hat on the Seasock conclusion.

And yes, the Seasock conclusion was likely the one they - the DA and the school - wanted to believe

Why are you arguing with me?

Where do we differ here? Help me understand what you and others want me say?

This seems to be a really pointless exercise at this point. Help!!!

You've moved the bar a bit. Here is parts of your first post on the subject.

It was John Seasock who concluded in 1998 that there was no evidence that Jerry Sandusky was a pedophile. It was John Seasock who basically eliminated the possibility of prosecution by concluding that there was no indication that the young boy was being "groomed for sexual victimization" even though Sandusky had showered with the kid, had bear hugged the kid in the shower, had kissed the kid on the head, had uttered "I love you" in the shower and had thereafter pursued the kid in a very unusual manner for an adult male.

In my opinion John Seasock is the guy who bears much of the blame because he seemingly derailed what other intelligent and insightful people were trying to do.
Seasock didn't prevent anyone from going forward and prosecutuing. The prosecution chose on their own to use his report as their justification. They could have just as easily used the report of Chambers and the internal police report. Seasock did not prevent anything. He didn't derail anything.
 
You've moved the bar a bit. Here is parts of your first post on the subject.

It was John Seasock who concluded in 1998 that there was no evidence that Jerry Sandusky was a pedophile. It was John Seasock who basically eliminated the possibility of prosecution by concluding that there was no indication that the young boy was being "groomed for sexual victimization" even though Sandusky had showered with the kid, had bear hugged the kid in the shower, had kissed the kid on the head, had uttered "I love you" in the shower and had thereafter pursued the kid in a very unusual manner for an adult male.

In my opinion John Seasock is the guy who bears much of the blame because he seemingly derailed what other intelligent and insightful people were trying to do.
Seasock didn't prevent anyone from going forward and prosecutuing. The prosecution chose on their own to use his report as their justification. They could have just as easily used the report of Chambers and the internal police report. Seasock did not prevent anything. He didn't derail anything.



Bees - I was an assistant DA in Philadelphia.

Trust me.

When the lead investigator issues a report that vindicates the potential defendant it is devastating even if some other professional disagrees with the conclusion.

You're just dead wrong on that part of it.

His stupid report made it very difficult to proceed. And as I also indicated in the part of the post that you did not quote, or another post that I made in this thread - I don't recall - that at the very least his report gave the DA cover not to proceed.

So, I think we are saying very similar things, but I also think that your observation that the DA should have said "Oh well, so the lead County Investigator says nothing happened, big deal, I'll just use another report that says something did happen," is a bit naive, particularly when you're dealing with a potential defendant who, up to that point, had a spotless and admirable reputation.

You can't pick and choose the evidence. The defense is going to call Seasock and make the prosecution case look very bad.

Beyond a reasonable doubt is a high standard of proof. You just can't prosecute a guy when the expert says that there is way more than reasonable doubt. It's a waste of time and money and puts the DA's own prosecutorial reputation on the line.

I am not the sharpest blade in the drawer - I admit it.

But on this one, I think I'm right.
 
They did get an advantage in that they avoided bad publicity and diminished fan support and recruiting. the whole cover-up was for the benefit of the football program. They would not have done it other than for that fact.

Correct. They absolutely got a recruiting advantage. Some of these talking heads must be on the take. If it had been shown that JoePa and others had covered things up and not done their legal responisbily of turning in Sandusky, Paterno would have and should have been fired 15-20 years ago. How many players went to PedSt back then "to play for JoePa"?
 
Bees - I was an assistant DA in Philadelphia.

Trust me.

When the lead investigator issues a report that vindicates the potential defendant it is devastating even if some other professional disagrees with the conclusion.

You're just dead wrong on that part of it.

His stupid report made it very difficult to proceed. And as I also indicated in the part of the post that you did not quote, or another post that I made in this thread - I don't recall - that at the very least his report gave the DA cover not to proceed.

So, I think we are saying very similar things, but I also think that your observation that the DA should have said "Oh well, so the lead County Investigator says nothing happened, big deal, I'll just use another report that says something did happen," is a bit naive, particularly when you're dealing with a potential defendant who, up to that point, had a spotless and admirable reputation.

You can't pick and choose the evidence. The defense is going to call Seasock and make the prosecution case look very bad.

Beyond a reasonable doubt is a high standard of proof. You just can't prosecute a guy when the expert says that there is way more than reasonable doubt. It's a waste of time and money and puts the DA's own prosecutorial reputation on the line.

I am not the sharpest blade in the drawer - I admit it.

But on this one, I think I'm right.

Lead investigator? Who made him that? He was a psychologist just like Chambers who happened to be the Happy Valley psychologist. The prosecution made a conscious decision to find someone that would say no charges. The guy spent one hour with the kid and his report didn't even mention the kissing or the I love you. He was on the take as was everyone. He did not prevent anyone from doing the right thing. Those who should have done the right thing by prosecutuing, chose to ignore other facts they had where they didn't like the answer.
 
I remember a bunch of folks killing LaVar Arrington when this news first broke because he was a staunch defender of PSU and Paterno. Didn't realize that he knew "victim #4" and took a 180-degree turn during the trial. Good piece on it here. Feel bad for the guy...

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf...erno-didn-t-know-person-014135658--ncaaf.html

He likes to use the word "institution" but he only wants to punish people. Glad to see he has re-thought this stuff and come to his senses. He even hinted at warning signs. I just wonder if he said all this to put himself in a better light since he was one of the most vocal in November.
 
well, my answer is popular opinion. there is nothing they can do.

and obviously, as of now, they havnt released a punishment.

they have sent that letter request to penn st and are still awaiting a response. based on that they will make a statement. most talking heads cant figure out what, if anything, they can do.

all we have now is our opinions.

You are correct, we all have opiniosn on what might happen in the future. I just wonder if people have acftually read the ncaa manual and the sections they quoted to PedSt and ask for replies on. Hopefully the NCAA will do the right thing allowed by their own rules. Hopefully the B10 will also do something to the "institution". Let the legal process handle the individuals and their crimes, but someone has to also puncih the institution. I am anxious to see where SU's moral compass is set also.
 
bees, you need to drop this Syracuse and their moral compass bullspit.

as far as the country is concerned, Syracuse is a pedophile uni with a coverup too.

the last thing the Hill needs to do is associate their name into this story in any way, shape or form.
 
bees, you need to drop this Syracuse and their moral compass bullspit.

as far as the country is concerned, Syracuse is a pedophile uni with a coverup too.

the last thing the Hill needs to do is associate their name into this story in any way, shape or form.

Sorry, not going to drop it. And it isn't just SU. I could add any team OOC that is playing them. It's also not bullspit. It's what an institution allowed. Not just Paterno, but the institution. Lets see if SU or any other school is made of the right moral fiber. What's more important? Money, or sending a message to an institution that allowed kids to be raped.
 
Lead investigator? Who made him that? He was a psychologist just like Chambers who happened to be the Happy Valley psychologist. The prosecution made a conscious decision to find someone that would say no charges. The guy spent one hour with the kid and his report didn't even mention the kissing or the I love you. He was on the take as was everyone. He did not prevent anyone from doing the right thing. Those who should have done the right thing by prosecutuing, chose to ignore other facts they had where they didn't like the answer.


Oh please.

Where does the Freeh report say what you are saying?

My review of the report seems to suggest that Seasock was given a clean bill of health in terms of potential influence. Seasock was the lead investigator for the Centre County YSC. His report clearly mattered. One of the others involved told Freeh that the report hurt the chances for prosecution. The report was dead wrong and Seasock refused to listen to others who were telling him that.

Now you think he was on the take? Or that the DA instructed him to write the report the way he did?

Where do you come up with this stuff?
 
Sorry, not going to drop it. And it isn't just SU. I could add any team OOC that is playing them. It's also not bullspit. It's what an institution allowed. Not just Paterno, but the institution. Lets see if SU or any other school is made of the right moral fiber. What's more important? Money, or sending a message to an institution that allowed kids to be raped.


Bees isn't the only one. From MGoBlog:


This school can not be allowed to remain in the B1G. At the very least, they should be suspended from conference football for several years until they fix whatever the hell is going on in that creepy little town.


I can't even look at old games on BTN or espn with him and not be disgusted. Psu must be booted from the B1G, their institution is not worthy to be in the conference.


I'm not sure how the Big Ten Presidents can read this and conclude that PSU should be allowed to stay in the conference. They will take a $$$ hit, but the Big Ten's entire brand will be trashed if PSU is allowed to stay. How can we go about touting the "integrity" of the conference and our academic credentials with Penn State around?


They should be gone. No question.


I really think that it is a possibility that Penn State will not be a member of the Big Ten, I don't know whether the conference is going to have a choice.

The coverup by the University to protect the football program is what has done it to me. I have said it time and time again that Penn State University [note: not their fans, or alumni] is doing their best job to get kicked out of the Big Ten. This report seals the deal for me.

I have no issues with the research arm of PSU, but I never want to interact with their athletic department again.

Lawsuits, no championship game in football, yada yada. The repurcussions are immense and dizzying and probably, if I thought about it, prohibitive. But I really will not be satisfied until the Big Ten does the right thing and says, PSU,
get the #$% out of our conference
.
 
There is no way the B10 kicks PSU to the curb.
 
Sorry, not going to drop it. And it isn't just SU. I could add any team OOC that is playing them. It's also not bullspit. It's what an institution allowed. Not just Paterno, but the institution. Lets see if SU or any other school is made of the right moral fiber. What's more important? Money, or sending a message to an institution that allowed kids to be raped.
alright then, go ahead and give the order.

i then would expect every single hoop team that JB has lined up non-con to tell SU to go to hell, as they wont be playing them either. followed by every football team on the future schedules.

SU clearly shouldnt be throwing stones in this glass house.
 
Being on the take is my opinion obviously. Everything else is fact that has come out in multiple publications. Search on him and Chalmers. Why do you keep calling him an investigator? Are you making that up? He's a psychologist.

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There is no way the B10 kicks PSU to the curb.
If it was the SEC I would say your spot on but I tend to believe the Big has better standards then that and PSU will be booted. This is JMO of course. On a side note I think Bees is on point with this topic
 
By May 4th/5th, 1998: Schultz, Curley, and Paterno ALL KNEW about the investigation

May 8th, 1998: Seasock conducted the 2nd evaluation after the 1st from Alycia Chambers (who had no connection to Penn State) concluded that the child's relationship with Sandusky had patterns of pedophilia. Case worker Jerry Lauro NEVER SAW Chambers' statement

"Now you think he was on the take?"

You don't???
 
From Rick Reilly at ESPN:

I hope Penn State loses civil suits until the walls of the accounting office cave in. I hope that Spanier, Schultz and Curley go to prison for perjury. I hope the NCAA gives Penn State the death penalty it most richly deserves. The worst scandal in college football history deserves the worst penalty the NCAA can give. They gave it to SMU for winning without regard for morals. They should give it to Penn State for the same thing. The only difference is, at Penn State they didn't pay for it with Corvettes. They paid for it with lives.

Article at http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8162972/joe-paterno-true-legacy
 
From Rick Reilly at ESPN:

I hope Penn State loses civil suits until the walls of the accounting office cave in. I hope that Spanier, Schultz and Curley go to prison for perjury. I hope the NCAA gives Penn State the death penalty it most richly deserves. The worst scandal in college football history deserves the worst penalty the NCAA can give. They gave it to SMU for winning without regard for morals. They should give it to Penn State for the same thing. The only difference is, at Penn State they didn't pay for it with Corvettes. They paid for it with lives.

Article at http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8162972/joe-paterno-true-legacy

I wrote that for him.

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I almost believe it. That's about the first decent thing Reilly's written in 10 years.

In all seriousness, while it is a we'll written opinion piece, I found the first part about that Prof interesting.

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