Freeh Report confirms the worst | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

Freeh Report confirms the worst

So it sounds like Penn State will not be punished because they didn't break any NCAA rules. I'm pretty sure I said the same thing last week, though I admit I cheated, I got my info from the premium board.
 
I am not sure that is really true. Some lawyers are reading parts of the NCAA rules and ignoring the much broader language regarding ethics and institutional control. The NCAA will determine for itself if it has jurisdiction. I doubt they an ignore this. If the NCAA decides it has jurisdiction and must do something, what is PSU going to do -sue? I don't think so.
 
can somebody get jay paterno to shut up??

good lord listening to him defend everything its annoying as all hell.

Completely agree. I'm sure he'd be calling the Freeh report an "opinion" if it completely exonerated Daddy.
 
Come on man. I understand the point you are trying to make but you're missing the real point. There were 2 psyche reports. Chalmers and Seasock. Their conclusions were opposite. So why didn't the FA use the Chalmer one? Perhaps they went with the Seasock one because it fit with what they wanted, which was a coverup. People were on take. Get it? There's no other explanation as to why they ignored the other report in a case as vile as this.

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My read of the report indicates that Seasock was viewed as the definitive authority on the subject.

Chambers had already weighed in before Seasock was assigned to the case.

It is clear that many tried to change Seasock's point of view - many wanted to prosecute.

But Seasock held to his obviously misguided guns. It seemed to me that he led the kid into making statements that relieved Sandusky of liability.

When the designated County Investigator announces in a report that nothing inappropriate occurred the DA is really put in a bad position.

If I'm Sandusky's lawyer, all I do is call Seasock as my witness and hold up his report. And that's pretty much the end of the case.

Now, do I think that "politics" had no role? Well, not in the strictest sense. I don't believe that the DA was pressured by the school.

I do think that the DA understood that Sandusky had a monumental reputation in the community and I suspect that the Seasock report not only foreshadowed a not guilty verdict, but also, as I said in the OP, gave the DA some measure of cover - it allowed him to avoid what might have been viewed as an unpopular prosecution.

My OP really meant to convey a narrow observation - that Seasock took what was pretty obvious and helped sink a criminal prosecution with a really dumb conclusion.
 
So it sounds like Penn State will not be punished because they didn't break any NCAA rules. I'm pretty sure I said the same thing last week, though I admit I cheated, I got my info from the premium board.

Where did you get that they wont be punished?

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My read of the report indicates that Seasock was viewed as the definitive authority on the subject.

Chambers had already weighed in before Seasock was assigned to the case.

It is clear that many tried to change Seasock's point of view - many wanted to prosecute.

But Seasock held to his obviously misguided guns. It seemed to me that he led the kid into making statements that relieved Sandusky of liability.

When the designated County Investigator announces in a report that nothing inappropriate occurred the DA is really put in a bad position.

If I'm Sandusky's lawyer, all I do is call Seasock as my witness and hold up his report. And that's pretty much the end of the case.

Now, do I think that "politics" had no role? Well, not in the strictest sense. I don't believe that the DA was pressured by the school.

I do think that the DA understood that Sandusky had a monumental reputation in the community and I suspect that the Seasock report not only foreshadowed a not guilty verdict, but also, as I said in the OP, gave the DA some measure of cover - it allowed him to avoid what might have been viewed as an unpopular prosecution.

My OP really meant to convey a narrow observation - that Seasock took what was pretty obvious and helped sink a criminal prosecution with a really dumb conclusion.

Think about this.

Chambers report was done first and became part of the campus police report. She interview the accuser several times and even counseled him afterwards.

Seasock did his report without ever looking at Chambers report and only talking to the accuser for 1 hour on one occasion.

So why do you think prosecutors went with the Seasock report while ignoring the Chambers report and police report? Why did Seasock become definitive??

Because that is the answer they wanted.

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Where did you get that they wont be punished?

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what can they do?? take a scholarship away?? for what?? crimes against humanity? that punishment doesnt fit the crime.

id say the only 2 options are a tv ban or death.

i dont see either happening.
 
Dan Wetzel of Yahoo! was on Van Pelt's show today, and he made a devastating point which I hadn't heard before (or maybe he just approached the situation from a different perspective).

He said that he is sick of hearing people say that Paterno did great things for all the men who played for him. That those athletes were adult, strong, and intelligent, and really didn't need his help ("They would have done fine if they had played for Bo Schembechler.") It was the 10-year-old troubled kids who ended up at the 2nd Mile who needed help. And Joe was nowhere to be found.

Exactly -- this is what I've been saying with our whole character development program. If you really want to help kids the ones you should be taking are the marginalized kids with terrible academics and scrapes with the law, etc. Grabbing a kid from a strong nuclear family in a nice Maryland suburb and then claiming your'e going to develop him into a "fine young man" is fine, but not really much more than marketing.

And it's true as well about the whole "sports develops character" thing. That may be true on some level. On the college level? It's about winning. There may be some virtuous results of playing sports on a college level but more often it breeds just as many non-virtuous qualities (entitlement, immature behavior, boys club mentality ...).
 
I have absolutely no idea what "jurisdition" the NCAA has, but if they're going to punt on this one then can they please just fold up shop on regulating absolutely anything from now on?

I mean how on Earth can anyone take such diddly-squat issues as coaches texting recruits during the wrong week, or boosters getting a player a car, seriously when one of the premiere collegiate athletic departments in the country is allowed to cover up a pedophile for a decade?

I'll make this point on jurisdiction again: When you have a legendary football coach who is an extremely powerful figure as well as an iconic defensive coordinator involved in case where football activities and facilities are used to aid the activities of a serial child molester and then those same figures cover up the events after they are reported by, you guessed it, another member of the football staff ... wait for it ... IT IS A FOOTBALL/NCAA ISSUE!!! Christ, jurisdiction doesn't get more clear cut, IMO.
 
So it sounds like Penn State will not be punished because they didn't break any NCAA rules. I'm pretty sure I said the same thing last week, though I admit I cheated, I got my info from the premium board.

Yup it seems clear to me the NCAA is allready looking to pass on this and as others have pointed out death penalty doesnt apply as there arent multiple violations that were previously noted by the NCAA which is needed for the death penalty. I just hope the kids that went through this can get justice in teh courtroom criminally and financially they deserve it. I have to laugh here when people are saying PSU should voluntarily shut the program down a year or two, theres less then zero % chance of that happening no D1 A team will ever give themselves the death penalty especially in football.
 
death.

i dont see either happening.

I'm not sure either happens, but if you were ever going to use the death penalty, what would you wait for? a football program to participate in genocide?
 
what can they do?? take a scholarship away?? for what?? crimes against humanity? that punishment doesnt fit the crime.

id say the only 2 options are a tv ban or death.

i dont see either happening.

Yup spot on. NCAA is going to say they dont have jurisdiction and they sure as hell arent giving them the death penalty.
 
I'm not sure either happens, but if you were ever going to use the death penalty, what would you wait for? a football program to participate in genocide?

It was a school wide cover up including the AD and president, if the NCAA gives the fball team the death penalty why not the womans bball team or the Mens lax team. I agree that the program deserves harsh punishments especially those responsible for the cover up but wheres the NCAA's jurisdiction when Sandusky retired in the late 90's and all of those people responsible are likely guilty of actual crimes unrelated to football activities.
 
what can they do?? take a scholarship away?? for what?? crimes against humanity? that punishment doesnt fit the crime.

id say the only 2 options are a tv ban or death.

i dont see either happening.

Self-inflicted, Big Ten inflicted or NCAA infilcted, doesn't matter. The only thing that should be done is to kill the program. Obviously it's become bigger than the "university". If Penn State wants to actually be a place of higher education there is only one response that sends that message.

Bowl bans? Scholarship reductions? Who cares. Penn State football is a cancer on that "school".
 
It was a school wide cover up including the AD and president, if the NCAA gives the fball team the death penalty why not the womans bball team or the Mens lax team. I agree that the program deserves harsh punishments especially those responsible for the cover up but wheres the NCAA's jurisdiction when Sandusky retired in the late 90's and all of those people responsible are likely guilty of actual crimes unrelated to football activities.

This didn't end in the 90s -- That dude was trolling around campus constantly even after resigning. Using facilities, etc. And cover-ups of serial activity aren't one-time events. This was an on-going cover-up since the 90s. I don't think they'll get the death penalty and I know the NCAA is useless, but it's crazy to me if the NCAA goes, "Well, what can we do?"
 
This didn't end in the 90s -- That dude was trolling around campus constantly even after resigning. Using facilities, etc. And cover-ups of serial activity aren't one-time events. This was an on-going cover-up since the 90s. I don't think they'll get the death penalty and I know the NCAA is useless, but it's crazy to me if the NCAA goes, "Well, what can we do?"

The NCAA shouldn't have to do anything. If Penn State wants to actually regard itself as "university" rather than a football program that happens to also teach classes, then they need to end the program for the foreseeable future and have a university that's prime mission is actually academics.
 
Think about this.

Chambers report was done first and became part of the campus police report. She interview the accuser several times and even counseled him afterwards.

Seasock did his report without ever looking at Chambers report and only talking to the accuser for 1 hour on one occasion.

So why do you think prosecutors went with the Seasock report while ignoring the Chambers report and police report? Why did Seasock become definitive??

Because that is the answer they wanted.

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Clearly Chambers and others were convinced that the pattern was one of pedophelia - that Sandusky was engaging in the the process of "grooming."

And clearly many in law enforcment tried to convince Seasock that his conclusion was way off base.

So, yes you and I agree that many got it right in 1998, and Seasock got it wrong - way wrong.

And yes, we apparently agree that the DA chose not to prosecute and likely chose not to do so because he could hang his hat on the Seasock conclusion.

And yes, the Seasock conclusion was likely the one they - the DA and the school - wanted to believe

Why are you arguing with me?

Where do we differ here? Help me understand what you and others want me say?

This seems to be a really pointless exercise at this point. Help!!!
 
Think about this.

Chambers report was done first and became part of the campus police report. She interview the accuser several times and even counseled him afterwards.

Seasock did his report without ever looking at Chambers report and only talking to the accuser for 1 hour on one occasion.

So why do you think prosecutors went with the Seasock report while ignoring the Chambers report and police report? Why did Seasock become definitive??

Because that is the answer they wanted.

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it would not be unusual to interview someone w/o reading a previous report so you will not be consciously of subconsciously bias in with your opinion. you would certainly read later and perhaps re-interview as indicated. history is always the best indicator of future behavior,when it comes to socio/psychpaths.
 
what can they do?? take a scholarship away?? for what?? crimes against humanity? that punishment doesnt fit the crime.

id say the only 2 options are a tv ban or death.

i dont see either happening.

That wasn't my question.

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Yup spot on. NCAA is going to say they dont have jurisdiction and they sure as hell arent giving them the death penalty.

What was their point in the letter to PedSt back in November, then a follow-up, then their statement yesterday? If you say it's all for show, then that I can understand. But I don't see anyplace where the NCAA themselves have said or done anything that says they don't think it is their jurisdiction or its outside their manual or anything of the nature people are saying here. It's the talking heads and lawyers they are asking where these ideas are coming from. The NCAA on at least 2 occasions has quoted the morals, ethics and institutional control sections of their manual.

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Clearly Chambers and others were convinced that the pattern was one of pedophelia - that Sandusky was engaging in the the process of "grooming."

And clearly many in law enforcment tried to convince Seasock that his conclusion was way off base.

So, yes you and I agree that many got it right in 1998, and Seasock got it wrong - way wrong.

And yes, we apparently agree that the DA chose not to prosecute and likely chose not to do so because he could hang his hat on the Seasock conclusion.

And yes, the Seasock conclusion was likely the one they - the DA and the school - wanted to believe

Why are you arguing with me?

Where do we differ here? Help me understand what you and others want me say?

This seems to be a really pointless exercise at this point. Help!!!

The facts are the psych reports were conflicting and we don't know why the case was not prosecuted then... and the DA's office will not say why and refused to speak about it with Freeh.

You said you know why - it was the Seasock report.

That is simply a statement of opinion you can't prove or support with fact.

So yeah, you got called out on it... sorry.
 
That wasn't my question.

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well, my answer is popular opinion. there is nothing they can do.

and obviously, as of now, they havnt released a punishment.

they have sent that letter request to penn st and are still awaiting a response. based on that they will make a statement. most talking heads cant figure out what, if anything, they can do.

all we have now is our opinions.
 
It was a school wide cover up including the AD and president, if the NCAA gives the fball team the death penalty why not the womans bball team or the Mens lax team. I agree that the program deserves harsh punishments especially those responsible for the cover up but wheres the NCAA's jurisdiction when Sandusky retired in the late 90's and all of those people responsible are likely guilty of actual crimes unrelated to football activities.
If it was the womans bball team or the Mens lax team then they should get the death penalty - this was FOOTBALL!
 
It was a school wide cover up including the AD and president, if the NCAA gives the fball team the death penalty why not the womans bball team or the Mens lax team. I agree that the program deserves harsh punishments especially those responsible for the cover up but wheres the NCAA's jurisdiction when Sandusky retired in the late 90's and all of those people responsible are likely guilty of actual crimes unrelated to football activities.

Because many of the crimes took place while he was a football coach or took place in football facilities or were covered up by the football coach. The womens basketball coach wasn't a factor at all.

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