Frost update to UCF

[money3189]

The more I thought about it the more I understand why Frost chose UCF. This is really simple fellas, Coyle wanted a long term commitment. Frost wanted a opportunity to leave after a couple years. UCF is a smart move. UCF was 0-12 people. Gonna be easy to turn it around in that conference with good athetes. If he wins 5 games next year he is showing a huge turn around. If he wins 9 the following year he is the next big thing. This will make the big schools go after him and also make Nebraska come up with a lengthy deal to get him there. Its brilliant.

 

[llandz]

Which wasn't good enough and he was let go.

Mostly because he did not beat UCLA. It is all about the UCLA game.

 

[llandz]

USC won the Pac-12 South and beat UCLA this time. Eddie O went 5-2 beat Stanford but lost to UCLA/Notre Dame their biggest 2 rivals.

Helton is being rewarded for winning the Pac-12 South.

AND beating UCLA. That is why it was announced the day after that game. You have no idea how big that is to USC fans.

 

[OrangePA]

Was starting to warm to the idea of Scott Frost.

I'm disappointed.

I am even more disappointed now that we're hearing about Chris Ash.

Oh my.

 

[OrangeinOmaha]

The more I thought about it the more I understand why Frost chose UCF. This is really simple fellas, Coyle wanted a long term commitment. Frost wanted a opportunity to leave after a couple years. UCF is a smart move. UCF was 0-12 people. Gonna be easy to turn it around in that conference with good athetes. If he wins 5 games next year he is showing a huge turn around. If he wins 9 the following year he is the next big thing. This will make the big schools go after him and also make Nebraska come up with a lengthy deal to get him there. Its brilliant.

This times a thousand.

The people saying we lost Frost to UCF are nuts. I would be more upset if Coyle only let Frost sign a 3 year contract, that would say more about our program than losing a coach to UCF does.

 

[jr4750]

You can't have a guy come in with one foot out the door. Frost is Nebraska's dream coach, their next Osborne. Come on, Coyle didn't screw this up. He is looking out for the long term health of Cuse. Lets see how this plays out.

 

[phil77]

The more I thought about it the more I understand why Frost chose UCF. This is really simple fellas, Coyle wanted a long term commitment. Frost wanted a opportunity to leave after a couple years. UCF is a smart move. UCF was 0-12 people. Gonna be easy to turn it around in that conference with good athetes. If he wins 5 games next year he is showing a huge turn around. If he wins 9 the following year he is the next big thing. This will make the big schools go after him and also make Nebraska come up with a lengthy deal to get him there. Its brilliant.

My only thing is that Coyle had to do his research and know that Frost would be gone the first chance he got to Nebraska. Hell everyone on the board did. So if he is your number 1 choice you have to know that going in. Coyle still pursued and lost to UCF. Not a big deal to lose Frost there are plenty of offensive coaches out there but he still lost his number one choice and if was unaware of Frost goals then shame on Coyle as he interviewed for the Boise job should have been well aware then.

 

[tep624]

My only thing is that Coyle had to do his research and know that Frost would be gone the first chance he got to Nebraska. Hell everyone on the board did. So if he is your number 1 choice you have to know that going in. Coyle still pursued and lost to UCF. Not a big deal to lose Frost there are plenty of offensive coaches out there but he still lost his number one choice and if was unaware of Frost goals then shame on Coyle as he interviewed for the Boise job should have been well aware then.

Sometimes you don't really know/learn that until you vet it out through the process. Even from the Oregon sources, sounds like Frost holds everything pretty close to the vest.

 

[tep624]

The more I thought about it the more I understand why Frost chose UCF. This is really simple fellas, Coyle wanted a long term commitment. Frost wanted a opportunity to leave after a couple years. UCF is a smart move. UCF was 0-12 people. Gonna be easy to turn it around in that conference with good athetes. If he wins 5 games next year he is showing a huge turn around. If he wins 9 the following year he is the next big thing. This will make the big schools go after him and also make Nebraska come up with a lengthy deal to get him there. Its brilliant.

Yep. All makes logical sense. And if the lynch pin was him not having the opportunity to leave here after 1-2 years, then the right decision was made.

 

[phil77]

Sometimes you don't really know/learn that until you vet it out through the process. Even from the Oregon sources, sounds like Frost holds everything pretty close to the vest.

Holding things close to the vest is one thing but everyone on this board knew he would leave to Nebraska first chance he got. Coyle has to be smarter than us so he must have realized it also. If that is the case and you don't want 1-2 years for Frost then don't pursue him in the first place makes you look bad when you lose your number 1 choice to a non P5 school for whatever reason it maybe.

 

[Toga]

 

[Oswego93]

If it is true that the reason this fell thru was because he was clearly going to bolt after only 1-2 seasons (rather than the "expected'understood" 3-4), I guess I can't fault Coyle other than the fact that he MUST have had an idea that would be his plan for some time. Why make him the #1 target at that point?

Where I will really take umbrage (if the Ash thing comes to pass) was that his backup plan was another DC. I've stated my dislike of that candidate in other threads, a DC - in general - is just a non starter. People have made the point that it can still workout with a DC-->HC move, but given our history and issues on the other side of the ball (as well as the need to put an EXCITING product on the field), it just seems absurd to stack the deck against ourselves like this.

 

[reedny]

hiring oregon's defensive coordinator was like hiring gerg. gerg was along for the ride. frost had results

And if you want to bring fans back to the Dome, he ran a pretty exciting offense that scored lots of points. Anyway, next man up.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

If it is true that the reason this fell thru was because he was clearly going to bolt after only 1-2 seasons (rather than the "expected'understood" 3-4), I guess I can't fault Coyle other than the fact that he MUST have had an idea that would be his plan for some time. Why make him the #1 target at that point?

Where I will really take umbrage (if the Ash thing comes to pass) was that his backup plan was another DC. I've stated my dislike of that candidate in other threads, a DC - in general - is just a non starter. People have made the point that it can still workout with a DC-->HC move, but given our history and issues on the other side of the ball (as well as the need to put an EXCITING product on the field), it just seems absurd to stack the deck against ourselves like this.

Even if the ash thing comes to pass you wont know if it was his second third or fourth etc choice.

 

[orangecuse]

My only thing is that Coyle had to do his research and know that Frost would be gone the first chance he got to Nebraska. Hell everyone on the board did. So if he is your number 1 choice you have to know that going in. Coyle still pursued and lost to UCF. Not a big deal to lose Frost there are plenty of offensive coaches out there but he still lost his number one choice and if was unaware of Frost goals then shame on Coyle as he interviewed for the Boise job should have been well aware then.

As you eluded to in your first 3 sentences, what makes you think Coyle obviously & absolutely didn't realize it too? Maybe, Coyle (still liking him) wanted to get a feel for his commitment this time around? Maybe, with SU being in a P5 conference (Boise isn't) Frost may have changed his tune a bit in wanting to jump ship as soon as something better (Nebraska, etc.) came along? Once Coyle realized that nothing had really changed in Frost's mindset, goals, etc. from last year's interview (possibly same reason why Coyle went with Harsin) Coyle just said thanks for your time & consideration and he himself moved on?

 

[phil77]

As you eluded to in your first 3 sentences, what makes you think Coyle obviously & absolutely didn't realize it too? Maybe, Coyle (still liking him) wanted to get a feel for his commitment this time around? Maybe, with SU being in a P5 conference (Boise isn't) Frost may have changed his tune a bit in wanting to jump ship as soon as something better (Nebraska, etc.) came along? Once Coyle realized that nothing had really changed in Frost's mindset, goals, etc. from last year's interview (possibly same reason why Coyle went with Harsdin) Coyle just said thanks for your time & consideration and he himself moved on?

He could have asked him that over the phone before he even fired Shafer.

 

[anomander]

Would prefer Babers, or Montgomery anyways. If neither of those work out, then I'll start to worry a bit.

 

[orangecuse]

He could have asked him that over the phone before he even fired Shafer.

Maybe. But one gets a far better read when dealing with one face to face.

 

[Oswego93]

Even if the ash thing comes to pass you wont know if it was his second third or fourth etc choice.

I might state that DC shouldn't have been a top 25 choice in our situation. Further, though I was in favor of canning HCSS, why do that now if you aren;t reasonably sure of your next hire being a significant upgrade (meaning you have a pool of 3-4 candidates who can fit that bill , and you are reasonably certain you can sign one of them).

 

[reedny]

Yep. All makes logical sense. And if the lynch pin was him not having the opportunity to leave here after 1-2 years, then the right decision was made.

But isn't a 2-3 year commitment all we can reasonably ask of a young, up-and-coming coaching talent, given the state of our program?

Or put another way, if we hire someone talented that helps us climb over .500, competes with the big boys and runs and exciting offense that puts points points on the board and resuscitates the fan base --- then even if he leaves in 2-3 years our program will be a markedly better coaching destination than it is now.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

I might state that DC shouldn't have been a top 25 choice in our situation. Further, though I was in favor of canning HCSS, why do that now if you aren;t reasonably sure of your next hire being a significant upgrade (meaning you have a pool of 3-4 candidates who can fit that bill , and you are reasonably certain you can sign one of them).

Just because a DC doesn't fit into the narrative of Syracusefan.com posters doesn't mean it can't be a good move.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

But isn't a 2-3 year commitment all we can reasonably ask of a young, up-and-coming coaching talent, given the state of our program?

Or put another way, if we hire someone talented that helps us climb over .500, competes with the big boys and runs and exciting offense that puts points points on the board and resuscitates the fan base --- then even if he leaves in 203 years our program will be a markedly better coaching destination than it is now.

Not if they want all the money up front.

 

[Oswego93]

Just because a DC doesn't fit into the narrative of Syracusefan.com posters doesn't mean it can't be a good move.

It CAN be, but I believe (one man's opinion), that you are stacking the deck against yourself from the get-go by going that route. And if it IS a DC, I see nothing on Ash's resume that screams to me that he will be the type who makes it work.

 

[rrlbees]

I think the point was more than that, which is self-evident. My point is that we never seem to willing to pay the market price for those we want, whatever it is. When we hire an experienced coach with credentials on par with other good ACC coaches I will applaud.

Well it was my point that I was making. You do not offer every coach market value of the schools position.

 

[reedny]

Not if they want all the money up front.

Interesting point ... if that's the case. If he wants 5 years of money with an option to bail in 3, I guess I can see the issue. Hard to believe he's demanding that.