Frustrating thing from the Press Conf

[OburgCuse]

This may have been mentioned, but I haven't seen it yet.

I still support coach and think he can turn this around, but I feel he needs to adapt to possibilities that maybe "his philosophies" aren't most suitable for us. As many have said I believe we are right on par as far as talent with the rest of the Big East, but for whatever reason (special teams plays, drop pass, penalty, etc) made big mistakes at crucial points in most games that we can't recover from. I do believe that he has changed a little in some aspects of his coaching (never seen a qb sneak on 3rd or 4th in inches before yesterday despite my constant screaming at the tv, finally some screens despite constant pressure in previous games, etc).

The thing that bothers me coming from the press conference though was when Nolan asked about changes to the offense and stuff for next year and Marrone said it would be evaluated and it might need to be opened up or spread out a little, but then he made sure that he stated that his philosophy wouldn't be changing and going complete spread. He was basically just staying maybe the offense would open up a little more as it supposedly did this year. His stubborness in this aspect is what could do him in eventually because it just leaves us with so little room for error. When we can't recruit high caliber players on offense and defense our margin for error in the close low scoring games is so small. We caught just about every break and played a near perfect game in the WVU win. Our defense has been average to slightly above average for the most part but in no way do we have a stellar defense that can win us games consistantly. These slow methodical drives are so difficult because all it takes is one missed block, dropped pass, penalty and our drive stalls. Let alone penalties at crucial parts in games that often cripple us.

At this point I really think we need to integrate some kind of spread offense to increase tempo and number of offensive play opportunities that we will have. We may not have great talent at the skill positions but I see a lot of other teams have success with these systems with even less talent than us. I don't think we are headed in this direction though based on DM's comments during his press conference and his stubborness to "his philosophy" and this frustrates the hell out of me.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Our talent is not on par with the rest of the Big East.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

I think you and Marrone are on the same page. He said his philosophy won't change. I interpret that to mean that he wants a balanced offense. No problem with that. But, he also said he wants more big plays, i.e. less reliance on 16-play 10 minute drives. And that, he said, requires a QB who is also a running threat. My guess, is that we have seen the last of Nassib and, frankly, that Loeb should be looking elsewhere if he wants to play.

 

[Stern]

Our talent is not on par with the rest of the Big East.

Correct. In a couple cases its better.

 

[OrangePA]

This may have been mentioned, but I haven't seen it yet.

I still support coach and think he can turn this around, but I feel he needs to adapt to possibilities that maybe "his philosophies" aren't most suitable for us. As many have said I believe we are right on par as far as talent with the rest of the Big East, but for whatever reason (special teams plays, drop pass, penalty, etc) made big mistakes at crucial points in most games that we can't recover from. I do believe that he has changed a little in some aspects of his coaching (never seen a qb sneak on 3rd or 4th in inches before yesterday despite my constant screaming at the tv, finally some screens despite constant pressure in previous games, etc).

The thing that bothers me coming from the press conference though was when Nolan asked about changes to the offense and stuff for next year and Marrone said it would be evaluated and it might need to be opened up or spread out a little, but then he made sure that he stated that his philosophy wouldn't be changing and going complete spread. He was basically just staying maybe the offense would open up a little more as it supposedly did this year. His stubborness in this aspect is what could do him in eventually because it just leaves us with so little room for error. When we can't recruit high caliber players on offense and defense our margin for error in the close low scoring games is so small. We caught just about every break and played a near perfect game in the WVU win. Our defense has been average to slightly above average for the most part but in no way do we have a stellar defense that can win us games consistantly. These slow methodical drives are so difficult because all it takes is one missed block, dropped pass, penalty and our drive stalls. Let alone penalties at crucial parts in games that often cripple us.

At this point I really think we need to integrate some kind of spread offense to increase tempo and number of offensive play opportunities that we will have. We may not have great talent at the skill positions but I see a lot of other teams have success with these systems with even less talent than us. I don't think we are headed in this direction though based on DM's comments during his press conference and his stubborness to "his philosophy" and this frustrates the hell out of me.

I am just not convinced that the system - the spread offense is the answer.

I think Marrone agrees with you that the offense needs big play capability - there is no doubt that our offense right now requires too many plays to score and the creates too many opportunities for error.

The "spread," however, does not necessarily bring big play capability to the table. In many ways the spread is option football and west coast football. It is about possession.

The great athletes allow the spread to get big plays - Pat White at WVU or the present QB at Michigan.

What we need are big play RBs, WRs and QB. Yesterday, there were some really nice seam routes across the middle but no "go"patterns. That's because our QB really can't throw that kind of pass consistently and our WRs are not really all that fast or physical.

So, the answer is not so much the spread, but the athletes.

 

[OrangePA]

Correct. In a couple cases its better.

You're dead wrong. Not even close.

The only team that we perhaps out man is UConn and that is not necessarily true.

UConn has much better kicking, a much better return man, better defenders, a better RB and a better running QB.

 

[007]

As bad as the O was this year, and it was bad,Provo, Lemon, and Nassib (I think) are setting, or close to setting, SU records. I think that says something. Not sure what, because the ultimate judge is wins and loses.

I agree whole heartedly that the margin for error with this offense is way too slim to be viable without legitimate player makers at the skill positions. You have to believe as a coach that you can either develop that talent or recruit it. I think Marrone was stunned by the results on the field this year. this suggest to me that he based that faith on the staff's ability to develop talent, and more so in his belief in his system.

He either misjudged his talent, or his ability to develop that talent. He now has to adapt his system because I don't think he believes the talent he gets in recruiting is going to change ddrastically in the near term.

He will be judged in how well he "adapts."

 

[Stern]

You're dead wrong. Not even close.

The only team that we perhaps out man is UConn and that is not necessarily true.

UConn has much better kicking, a much better return man, better defenders, a better RB and a better running QB.

I believe SU has more or equal talent than UCONN, USF, and Rutgers. I know you disagree and that is fine. But in my opinion SU is in the middle of the pack of the Big East talent wise. That isn't an excuse why this team lost games this year. This team lost because of poor in-game decisions, special teams disasters, and terrible playcalling. We didn't put some players in situations to have the most success.

I know we will NEVER agree on this. So I am willing to agree to disagree and move on instead of going in circles on this for a week.

 

[suthrills]

This may have been mentioned, but I haven't seen it yet.

I still support coach and think he can turn this around, but I feel he needs to adapt to possibilities that maybe "his philosophies" aren't most suitable for us. As many have said I believe we are right on par as far as talent with the rest of the Big East, but for whatever reason (special teams plays, drop pass, penalty, etc) made big mistakes at crucial points in most games that we can't recover from. I do believe that he has changed a little in some aspects of his coaching (never seen a qb sneak on 3rd or 4th in inches before yesterday despite my constant screaming at the tv, finally some screens despite constant pressure in previous games, etc).

The thing that bothers me coming from the press conference though was when Nolan asked about changes to the offense and stuff for next year and Marrone said it would be evaluated and it might need to be opened up or spread out a little, but then he made sure that he stated that his philosophy wouldn't be changing and going complete spread. He was basically just staying maybe the offense would open up a little more as it supposedly did this year. His stubborness in this aspect is what could do him in eventually because it just leaves us with so little room for error. When we can't recruit high caliber players on offense and defense our margin for error in the close low scoring games is so small. We caught just about every break and played a near perfect game in the WVU win. Our defense has been average to slightly above average for the most part but in no way do we have a stellar defense that can win us games consistantly. These slow methodical drives are so difficult because all it takes is one missed block, dropped pass, penalty and our drive stalls. Let alone penalties at crucial parts in games that often cripple us.

At this point I really think we need to integrate some kind of spread offense to increase tempo and number of offensive play opportunities that we will have. We may not have great talent at the skill positions but I see a lot of other teams have success with these systems with even less talent than us. I don't think we are headed in this direction though based on DM's comments during his press conference and his stubborness to "his philosophy" and this frustrates the hell out of me.

Our Defense has been far from average to above average. We consistently make other teams offenses look better than they are.
Our Defense stinks.
Our offense just can't do anything right and the great debate is whether it's talent or coaching philosophy. It's a combo as you see an oline that can't block, receivers that can't separate and catch and a scheme that is predictable and easy to prepare for.
Our offense stinks.
Our Special Teams looks and plays like they aren't coached and alas they aren't coached.
Our Special Teams stinks.
Our concentration is terrible with uncalled for procedure and personal foul penalties.
Our dicipline stinks.
A certain recipe to finish 1-6 in the worst BCS conference in the history of the BCS and struggle with the likes of Tulane, RI and Toledo.
I don't know what the answer is but it feels like we are right where we were when Marrone took over, which is to say the progress from last year has evaporated and the program is on life support.

 

[kcsu]

He is going to have to take a hard look at ever aspect of his program. 5 ugly games in a row should make you question everything. Win next year or pack your bags

 

[007]

He is going to have to take a hard look at ever aspect of his program. 5 ugly games in a row should make you question everything. Win next year or pack your bags

5 in row, plus the poorly played Rhode Island and Tulane games. There is no doubt that he must and will look at everything. However, I don't believe that he will be fired next year. He may opt to step down, but he will not be fired.

 

[OrangePA]

I believe SU has more or equal talent than UCONN, USF, and Rutgers. I know you disagree and that is fine. But in my opinion SU is in the middle of the pack of the Big East talent wise. That isn't an excuse why this team lost games this year. This team lost because of poor in-game decisions, special teams disasters, and terrible playcalling. We didn't put some players in situations to have the most success.

I know we will NEVER agree on this. So I am willing to agree to disagree and move on instead of going in circles on this for a week.

I understand it's your opinion but you can't prove it.

Is the So. Florida QB - BJ Daniels - better than Ryan Nassib?

Are the USF WRs more athletic than ours?

Is Rutger's WR Mohommed Su better than any of our WRs?

Is the UConn RB better than Bailey? Is Nick Williams the UConn return man better than anybody we have? Is the UConn kicker better than our kicker?

Indeed, one could go on and on.

The fact is that when one looks at each position one quickly concludes that our talent level - though better than it has been - is not as good as every team in the BE including perhaps UConn.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Our talent is not on par with the rest of the Big East.

It's not that far away. Our talent was probably middle of the pack this year. Do you seriously think UConn, for instance, has much better players than us?

 

[IthacaMatt]

He is going to have to take a hard look at ever aspect of his program. 5 ugly games in a row should make you question everything. Win next year or pack your bags

Personally, I think he has to loosen up a bit. He is trying to enforce a West Point type atmosphere here, and you have to remember these are college kids, and he doesn't have the track record of a Bobby Knight, in terms of success, that people are going to line up to sign up for that kind of strict regimented atmosphere. Too many key players have been kicked off the team or buried in the depth chart for off the field issues, and we are just not a good enough team to throw a handful of our best players off the team every year and expect to be successful.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Our Defense has been far from average to above average. We consistently make other teams offenses look better than they are.
Our Defense stinks.
Our offense just can't do anything right and the great debate is whether it's talent or coaching philosophy. It's a combo as you see an oline that can't block, receivers that can't separate and catch and a scheme that is predictable and easy to prepare for.
Our offense stinks.
Our Special Teams looks and plays like they aren't coached and alas they aren't coached.
Our Special Teams stinks.
Our concentration is terrible with uncalled for procedure and personal foul penalties.
Our dicipline stinks.
A certain recipe to finish 1-6 in the worst BCS conference in the history of the BCS and struggle with the likes of Tulane, RI and Toledo.
I don't know what the answer is but it feels like we are right where we were when Marrone took over, which is to say the progress from last year has evaporated and the program is on life support.

Our defense is good, for the number of personnel losses we suffered, and the number of players we were replacing from last year. Shaffer is the primary reason that SU is not a laughingstock. This defense will be balls out again next year, with all the experience gained by a young group.

The offense was the reason we fell apart this year. It was supposed to be an area of strength and depth in the WR corps, in particular. But Mackey at center as a frosh who was 30 pounds underweight threw a monkey wrench in the whole offensive line, which returned 4 starters and had produced a 1000 yard rusher the year before. We lost WRs as the season went on (again), and AAM, for instance, was fat and out of shape at the start of the season, and Doug never had the faith in a big back to go with Bailey so that we could rush effectively in short yardage situations early in the year.

Doug has to loosen up a little with the offense, and with this coaching style. I can't believe he would have been like this coaching professional players, so don't be quick to say it's who he is. He may still be too uptight about trying to achieve success that he inhibits it - the players picking up on how tight the coach is, and then playing that well themselves. Exhibit 1 is the Rutgers game. He wanted that one so bad, and everyone could feel it.

As for special teams, it's 3 years now of utter ineptitude and embarrassment. If he doesn't make major strides to address that, he just doesn't understand college football. In college, games turn on special teams play so much more often than the pros, because of the differences in depth among teams. This is where that shows up. In the pros, there is much more talent equality, so maybe they take specials a bit for granted. You look at the NCAA, and many teams have made their reputations on great special teams play giving them an extra score or two every game.

Doug has to "get" this next year for me to continue to think that he's going to be our long term coach. He's really got to get a functional line and a more vertical passing game next year, or I am going to begin questioning whether or not he can be the guy. I love his love for the school and he has been a great ambassador. He has created a tougher team that really hits people now, but this year we lacked in fundamentals like wrapping up our tackles. That shows me we were more concerned with BEING tough and PLAYING tough. Too many attempts at the BIG hit where the guy didn't wrap up the tackle. Too many unnecessary roughness and personal foul calls. The Louisville game was full of us trying to bully a team that was our physical equals in the lines, and then not having the strategy (and the personal technique) to be able to still be effective. That's it in a nutshell for me.

 

[Stern]

I understand it's your opinion but you can't prove it.

.

And you can't prove yours either!! Jesus Christ that's a silly response!

South Florida and UCONN aren't going to bowls this year and have the same record as SU but you want me to believe they are stockpiled with talent? And this talent couldn't win more than 5 games in the worst BCS conference out there? Please! I saw SU whip Rutgers up and down the field. If not for 4 dropped easy INT's, dumb playcalling inside the 5 yard line, and a stupid decision to go for a punt block with the lead, we would have destroyed them.

If your whole basis is, you are right and I am wrong...and I can't prove it. That works both ways buddy! You can't prove you're opinion either

 

[007]

Our defense is good, for the number of personnel losses we suffered, and the number of players we were replacing from last year. Shaffer is the primary reason that SU is not a laughingstock. This defense will be balls out again next year, with all the experience gained by a young group..

Hope you are right about the experience factor, IM. All things are relative, but from my couch/seat in the Dome, the D showed glimpses (this is different from "flashes") of being good from time to time, but was generally...terrible. They rakned 65th in the final stats for FBS Total team D and last in the BE.

 

[orangenauburn]

Hope you are right about the experience factor, IM. All things are relative, but from my couch/seat in the Dome, the D showed glimpses (this is different from "flashes") of being good from time to time, but was generally...terrible. They rakned 65th in the final stats for FBS Total team D and last in the BE.

where did our experienced O rank?

 

[007]

where did our experienced O rank?

92nd, ahead of Rutgers, L'ville and UCONN. Not sure how that relates to the impression that D was terrible this year. But, for the record, I am not impying that O was good.

 

[OburgCuse]

Hope you are right about the experience factor, IM. All things are relative, but from my couch/seat in the Dome, the D showed glimpses (this is different from "flashes") of being good from time to time, but was generally...terrible. They rakned 65th in the final stats for FBS Total team D and last in the BE.

I think a lot of this is due to the fact the defense was put in a lot of tough situations ie 3 and outs by the O repeatedly. Our avg time of possession per game is 29 minutes which ranks us 80th out of 120. What makes this worse though is that with the style of offense we run we prob need to possess it maybe at least 32 or 33 min per game which doesn't seem like much but it would put us in the top 20. Our defense is by no means stellar, but I was talking about as a whole it should at least be average to above average and the O often makes it tougher on the defense by being inept itself.

 

[rrlbees]

I understand it's your opinion but you can't prove it.

Is the So. Florida QB - BJ Daniels - better than Ryan Nassib?

Are the USF WRs more athletic than ours?

Is Rutger's WR Mohommed Su better than any of our WRs?

Is the UConn RB better than Bailey? Is Nick Williams the UConn return man better than anybody we have? Is the UConn kicker better than our kicker?

Indeed, one could go on and on.

The fact is that when one looks at each position one quickly concludes that our talent level - though better than it has been - is not as good as every team in the BE including perhaps UConn.

Well, Nassib threw for more yards, had a higher comp% and a better passing efficiency that Daniels.

Lemon easily outdistanced every USF receiver in every stat.

Lemon also out did Sanu in yards, yards per catch, had the longest TD catch and the same amount of TD's.

Is the UConn RB better? Not as clear as you make it. Bailey had a better yards per carry average but McCombs ran it more because they hardly threw seeing as their QB's were the worst in the BE.

Yes, Williams is better than our return men or at least has better blocking.

1 out of 5 wasn't bad for you.

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

Syracuse finished 1-6 in Big East play for the fifth time in six years. Enough said, for whatever reason we stink. I am starting to get depressed and wonder if SU will ever be a factor again. College football has changed so much in the last ten years. The amount of money being spent on coaches and facilities is crazy. Syracuse is so far behind its embarrassing. The cheating or at best stretching of the rules in the Pac 12 and SEC is rampant, they might as well move to a semipro status. I am getting close to believing that Syracuse will never be good again. I don't blame Marrone at all, the foundation was crumbling long before he got here.

 

[billsin01]

I am just not convinced that the system - the spread offense is the answer.

So, the answer is not so much the spread, but the athletes.

I agree with the first part but not the last. I don't think we HAVE to go spread in any particular form, but I don't think you can sit back and say "it's the athletes" and feel better about things.

Why do I say this? Take a few factors:

-- half or more of this board things Nassib is horrendous. And he is by far -- and I really don't think there's a shred of debate here -- the best QB we've had since McNabb. People knock Bailey and I get it but the guy posted a 1,000-yard season despite not really running behind a great line. He was also a nice -- if underutilized -- threat as a receiver. It's not going to be as easy to "upgrade" there as people think, IMO. People may feel Lemon is a possession receiver and I agree to a large part, but he basically compares favorably to any receiver this side of Mike Williams (I like Sales as more of a threat but, obviously, it hasn't exactly worked out for him; Taj Smith was a nice big-play guy too I suppose).

-- Who have been our best offensive players? GRob's guys. It's pretty early to rip Marrone's recruiting but at this rate it could take another couple years until we get to a point where we're comfortable with our talent. We're waiting that long for an improved offense?

-- Navy. Navy moves the ball ALL OVER the place every time I watch them. They don't out-talent anyone. They don't even deceive anyone. They just run a system that is simply tough to defend.

So does the spread magically solve our problems? No, but it's fairly obvious to me that this system isn't doing us any favors, at least.

 

[kcsu]

I agree with the first part but not the last. I don't think we HAVE to go spread in any particular form, but I don't think you can sit back and say "it's the athletes" and feel better about things.

Why do I say this? Take a few factors:

-- half or more of this board things Nassib is horrendous. And he is by far -- and I really don't think there's a shred of debate here -- the best QB we've had since McNabb. People knock Bailey and I get it but the guy posted a 1,000-yard season despite not really running behind a great line. He was also a nice -- if underutilized -- threat as a receiver. It's not going to be as easy to "upgrade" there as people think, IMO. People may feel Lemon is a possession receiver and I agree to a large part, but he basically compares favorably to any receiver this side of Mike Williams (I like Sales as more of a threat but, obviously, it hasn't exactly worked out for him; Taj Smith was a nice big-play guy too I suppose).

-- Who have been our best offensive players? GRob's guys. It's pretty early to rip Marrone's recruiting but at this rate it could take another couple years until we get to a point where we're comfortable with our talent. We're waiting that long for an improved offense?

-- Navy. Navy moves the ball ALL OVER the place every time I watch them. They don't out-talent anyone. They don't even deceive anyone. They just run a system that is simply tough to defend.

So does the spread magically solve our problems? No, but it's fairly obvious to me that this system isn't doing us any favors, at least.

Great post. Doug is running what he knows plain and simple. He understands this O and isnt a good enough coach to learn a new system. In addition his ego and stubborn nature make it impossible for him to hire a true OC as he will never allow anyone other than himself to control the O. What he should do is what he most likely wont do. Hire a proven OC and let him run the show with Doug focusing on the big picture.

 

[CIL]

Well, Nassib threw for more yards, had a higher comp% and a better passing efficiency that Daniels.

Lemon easily outdistanced every USF receiver in every stat.

Lemon also out did Sanu in yards, yards per catch, had the longest TD catch and the same amount of TD's.

Is the UConn RB better? Not as clear as you make it. Bailey had a better yards per carry average but McCombs ran it more because they hardly threw seeing as their QB's were the worst in the BE.

Yes, Williams is better than our return men or at least has better blocking.

1 out of 5 wasn't bad for you.

This is a silly argument Bees. Defensive coordinators do not stay up at night worried as how to contain Alec Lemon. They darn well do about Mohammed Sanu, who caught 110 balls or something this year for 1400 yards or something, and often times was double covered. Opposing defenses aren't rolling a safety over to Lemon's side of the field. Lemon had a great year, but it's silly to assume he is the explosive athlete Sanu is.

Daniels is is probably the equivalent of Nassib passing, but he adds another dimension to the USF offense with his scrambling and running ability. According to ESPN, he ran for another 600 yards and 6 TD's. USF may not have one go to receiver, but they have speed all over the field on offense and defense.

McCombs is going to be a pain in the ass for a few years -- shifty little bastard.

I think we tend to overestimate our talent level. I think our talent is on par with UCONN. I think we are a maybe a shade below RU, Pitt, Ville, and USF. RU's talent on O is overrated outside Sanu, but they have some damn good athletes on defense. We do not have the speed across the board of the Ville or USF yet. WVU and Cinci were better than us on pure athletes, but we proved we can compete. Thats still no excuse for a 1 win season in the BE. We blew RU, could have beaten Pitt and UCONN as well.

Next year will tell me a lot about Marrone, IMO. He really has only two recruiting classes under his belt. We are not losing anyone I would label as an elite or irreplaceable talent. Kids like Spruill, Davis, Lynn, Bromley, Lynch, Desir, Reddish, etc got much needed experience on the defensive side of the ball. They will have another year of S and C under their belts.

Offensively, I think Marrone is tethering himself to Ryan Nassib, who really needs to improve next year IMO. I went to the Pitt game, and was really frustrated with how many open receivers he failed to see out there -- especially on the deep in, which he refuses to throw.