Frustrating thing from the Press Conf

[DomeStranger]

I don't like how slow offense moves ... every single play players are getting line up and there is anywhere between 8-15 secs on the play clock when this happens. Not enough time to read the defense and call an audible after this. I honestly can't remember the last time I seen Ryan call an audible. At this level that is pathetic especially when you have a QB that has a good grasp of the system.

 

[rrlbees]

This is a silly argument Bees. Defensive coordinators do not stay up at night worried as how to contain Alec Lemon. They darn well do about Mohammed Sanu, who caught 110 balls or something this year for 1400 yards or something, and often times was double covered. Opposing defenses aren't rolling a safety over to Lemon's side of the field. Lemon had a great year, but it's silly to assume he is the explosive athlete Sanu is.

Daniels is is probably the equivalent of Nassib passing, but he adds another dimension to the USF offense with his scrambling and running ability. According to ESPN, he ran for another 600 yards and 6 TD's. USF may not have one go to receiver, but they have speed all over the field on offense and defense.

McCombs is going to be a pain in the ass for a few years -- shifty little *******.

I think we tend to overestimate our talent level. I think our talent is on par with UCONN. I think we are a maybe a shade below RU, Pitt, Ville, and USF. RU's talent on O is overrated outside Sanu, but they have some damn good athletes on defense. We do not have the speed across the board of the Ville or USF yet. WVU and Cinci were better than us on pure athletes, but we proved we can compete. Thats still no excuse for a 1 win season in the BE. We blew RU, could have beaten Pitt and UCONN as well.

Next year will tell me a lot about Marrone, IMO. He really has only two recruiting classes under his belt. We are not losing anyone I would label as an elite or irreplaceable talent. Kids like Spruill, Davis, Lynn, Bromley, Lynch, Desir, Reddish, etc got much needed experience on the defensive side of the ball. They will have another year of S and C under their belts.

Offensively, I think Marrone is tethering himself to Ryan Nassib, who really needs to improve next year IMO. I went to the Pitt game, and was really frustrated with how many open receivers he failed to see out there -- especially on the deep in, which he refuses to throw.

Big East games where the SOS is equal.

2. SANU,Mohamed-RUT JR​

7 50 552 3 31 11.0 78.9 7.1

3. LEMON, Alec-SYR JR​

7 41 566 3 58 13.8 80.9 5.9

1. McCOMBS, Lyle-CONN FR​

7 152 649 4.3 3 63 92.7

3. BAILEY, Antwon-SYR SR​

7 139 622 4.5 2 50 88.9

And Daniels isn't the equivalent of Nassib passing in any measurable way.

 

[CIL]

Stats don't tell the whole story Bees, and you know that. Stats don't tell the double coverage Sanu faced on almost every snap, period. Sanu changes the way defenses call the games, Lemon doesn't. You could poll every single HC and DC in the BE and I doubt you'd find one to take Lemon over Sanu, outside maybe Marrone. One will be a high NFL pick, one will not. Guess which one that is?

The difference between Daniels and Nassib is minimal throwing the ball, even statistically. Daniels gives USF a running element Ryan does not, as I wrote previously. He changes the way defenses play the game, forcing a qb spy, forcing the de's to focus on contain, etc -- Ryan does not.

McCombs certainly is not the complete back Bailey is. I never wrote that, however, isn't McCombs also a true frosh? If so, that kid is going to wear teams out for a while.

Our biggest issue offensively is we do not have one player that forces any schematic changes for opposing defenses.

 

[007]

Stats don't tell the whole story Bees, and you know that. Stats don't tell the double coverage Sanu faced on almost every snap, period. Sanu changes the way defenses call the games, Lemon doesn't. You could poll every single HC and DC in the BE and I doubt you'd find one to take Lemon over Sanu, outside maybe Marrone. One will be a high NFL pick, one will not. Guess which one that is?

The difference between Daniels and Nassib is minimal throwing the ball, even statistically. Daniels gives USF a running element Ryan does not, as I wrote previously. He changes the way defenses play the game, forcing a qb spy, forcing the de's to focus on contain, etc -- Ryan does not.

McCombs certainly is not the complete back Bailey is. I never wrote that, however, isn't McCombs also a true frosh? If so, that kid is going to wear teams out for a while.

Our biggest issue offensively is we do not have one player that forces any schematic changes for opposing defenses.

Couldn't agree more with the bolded statement, CIL. In this regard, it doesn't matter what scheme you are running. We desperately need play makers at (in order of preference) QB, WR, and RB.

 

[Scooch]

Couldn't agree more with the bolded statement, CIL. In this regard, it doesn't matter what scheme you are running. We desperately need play makers at (in order of preference) QB, WR, and RB.

I might argue that when you have no bigtime playmakers that the system you run is even more important.

But whatever, there's no more excuses. Next year will be Marrone's 3rd full class and 4th overall. If we can't find one freakin' guy that throws a scare into the opposing D then it's a total failure of recruiting.

How many classes does it take to get one fast WR or one shifty RB?

I mean Robinson managed to land a few, and Robinson ing sucked.

 

[orangejunkie]

I've gone to a couple games (Rutgers and South Florida). I felt that we were at a definite talent disadvantage. We don't have the speed of other teams nor the athletes, especially in the skill positions. I thought that in both games that I went to, the opposing wide receivers were "longer" and more capable of making big plays. When our smaller corner backs are matched up with receivers that are 6'3" or 6'4" were are at a definite disadvantage. We don't have one receiver on our team that is a deep threat. Van Chew was supposed to be the guy, he may be fast but I don't see him as capable of going up and getting those 50-50 balls that top receivers can get.

 

[OrangePA]

I agree with the first part but not the last. I don't think we HAVE to go spread in any particular form, but I don't think you can sit back and say "it's the athletes" and feel better about things.

Why do I say this? Take a few factors:

-- half or more of this board things Nassib is horrendous. And he is by far -- and I really don't think there's a shred of debate here -- the best QB we've had since McNabb. People knock Bailey and I get it but the guy posted a 1,000-yard season despite not really running behind a great line. He was also a nice -- if underutilized -- threat as a receiver. It's not going to be as easy to "upgrade" there as people think, IMO. People may feel Lemon is a possession receiver and I agree to a large part, but he basically compares favorably to any receiver this side of Mike Williams (I like Sales as more of a threat but, obviously, it hasn't exactly worked out for him; Taj Smith was a nice big-play guy too I suppose).

-- Who have been our best offensive players? GRob's guys. It's pretty early to rip Marrone's recruiting but at this rate it could take another couple years until we get to a point where we're comfortable with our talent. We're waiting that long for an improved offense?

-- Navy. Navy moves the ball ALL OVER the place every time I watch them. They don't out-talent anyone. They don't even deceive anyone. They just run a system that is simply tough to defend.

So does the spread magically solve our problems? No, but it's fairly obvious to me that this system isn't doing us any favors, at least.

I think you missed the point of my post.

Marrone was pretty clear - he itends to make chages on offense.

I was responding to the notion that the change that is needed is the move to the spread.

That's it.

 

[OrangePA]

Our Defense has been far from average to above average. We consistently make other teams offenses look better than they are.
Our Defense stinks.
Our offense just can't do anything right and the great debate is whether it's talent or coaching philosophy. It's a combo as you see an oline that can't block, receivers that can't separate and catch and a scheme that is predictable and easy to prepare for.
Our offense stinks.
Our Special Teams looks and plays like they aren't coached and alas they aren't coached.
Our Special Teams stinks.
Our concentration is terrible with uncalled for procedure and personal foul penalties.
Our dicipline stinks.
A certain recipe to finish 1-6 in the worst BCS conference in the history of the BCS and struggle with the likes of Tulane, RI and Toledo.
I don't know what the answer is but it feels like we are right where we were when Marrone took over, which is to say the progress from last year has evaporated and the program is on life support.

If you think we're just where we were when Robinson left then you're misinformed.

In his last year Robinson was 3-9 coming off a 2-10 season - his recruiting chances for the following year were pitiful and he had won a total of 10 games in four years. And he had inherited a 6-6 team with a bowl appearance.

Obviously, Marrone's last two years were quite different than that - 13 wins, a bowl win and a nearly complete 2012 recruiting class of solid athletes.

I agree with one part of your post, however. You "don't know what the answer is."

Sorry. I just react badly to almarmist posts like your that have no factual basis whatsoever.

 

[rrlbees]

Stats don't tell the whole story Bees, and you know that. Stats don't tell the double coverage Sanu faced on almost every snap, period. Sanu changes the way defenses call the games, Lemon doesn't. You could poll every single HC and DC in the BE and I doubt you'd find one to take Lemon over Sanu, outside maybe Marrone. One will be a high NFL pick, one will not. Guess which one that is?

The difference between Daniels and Nassib is minimal throwing the ball, even statistically. Daniels gives USF a running element Ryan does not, as I wrote previously. He changes the way defenses play the game, forcing a qb spy, forcing the de's to focus on contain, etc -- Ryan does not.

McCombs certainly is not the complete back Bailey is. I never wrote that, however, isn't McCombs also a true frosh? If so, that kid is going to wear teams out for a while.

Our biggest issue offensively is we do not have one player that forces any schematic changes for opposing defenses.

No stats don't tell the whole story. You miss the whole point I made to the OP. The bottom line is that for all the flak the offense got and people saying we have no skill guys, our QB, TB, #1 WR and TE are all in the top half or better of the league. It's a mirage that every time we stepped on the field we were at some huge disadvantage talent wise. When we are playing teams like UConn and Cincy who have HS level QB's under center and we lose, talent is not an excuse. The BE is the worst conference in the BCS. It may be the worst BCS conference for a single year ever. That is because there is not a lot of talent on any team. So the difference in talent between any 2 teams is almost negligible. People talk like we played USC every week. Also, don't forget we played a couple of these teams when their talented skill guys weren't available, such as Collaros and Graham.

As to the speed argument, all I have heard for 3 years now is how much we have upgraded the speed on the team. If that was wrong then some of our posters who think they know talent need to step back.

 

[rrlbees]

And he had inherited a 6-6 team with a bowl appearance.

Can we please stop with this tired old argument? That team was a mirage. GRob's 1st year record was horrible but he turned the defense around that year. And behind the decent senior class he inherited were probably the worst 3 year collection of talent in SU history or pretty close to it.

 

[CIL]

We have definitely upgraded the speed level and athleticism on the defensive side of the ball over the last few years. However, that speed is very young and probably wasn't physically mature enough to compete this year. I'm referring to guys like Davis, Lynch, Desir, Reddish. Bromley, heck, even Spruill having to play the MIKE spot.

A big draw back with recruiting NYC kids is that they aren't ready for the game mentally and physically. I would equate them to HS sophomores in FL, TX, CA, OH, etc from terms of number of games and practices. They shouldn't really be seeing the field until a RS SO year unless they are an elite Ray Rice type talent.

I worry about those explosive fast twitch on offense, because I have yet to see one outside Gulley and Kobena.

 

[Chip]

Offensively, I think Marrone is tethering himself to Ryan Nassib, who really needs to improve next year IMO. I went to the Pitt game, and was really frustrated with how many open receivers he failed to see out there -- especially on the deep in, which he refuses to throw.

One of the things Marrone said in his comments to Nolan about looking at what we're doing on offense is that he said we need to get more "mobile". That could mean about anything, but for now I'm holding out hope that this means at QB. At least for enough packages to get Hunt some experience. Another year of the Nassib offense just seems painful to watch right now. And that's not because I think he's horrible. I just think he's average, and the system we run with him in there just looks so limited and hopeless at times. Better OL and better WRs help? Sure. But I also think his pocket presence is nearly shot playing behind this line for 2 years.

 

[rrlbees]

One of the things Marrone said in his comments to Nolan about looking at what we're doing on offense is that he said we need to get more "mobile". That could mean about anything, but for now I'm holding out hope that this means at QB. At least for enough packages to get Hunt some experience. Another year of the Nassib offense just seems painful to watch right now. And that's not because I think he's horrible. I just think he's average, and the system we run with him in there just looks so limited and hopeless at times. Better OL and better WRs help? Sure. But I also think his pocket presence is nearly shot playing behind this line for 2 years.

I believe Hunt will have some packages next year and be the #2 and get on the field some.

 

[rrlbees]

We have definitely upgraded the speed level and athleticism on the defensive side of the ball over the last few years. However, that speed is very young and probably wasn't physically mature enough to compete this year. I'm referring to guys like Davis, Lynch, Desir, Reddish. Bromley, heck, even Spruill having to play the MIKE spot.

A big draw back with recruiting NYC kids is that they aren't ready for the game mentally and physically. I would equate them to HS sophomores in FL, TX, CA, OH, etc from terms of number of games and practices. They shouldn't really be seeing the field until a RS SO year unless they are an elite Ray Rice type talent.

I worry about those explosive fast twitch on offense, because I have yet to see one outside Gulley and Kobena.

I said this at the game the other day and not many people agree with me but, I think it is a waste of time trying to "own" NYC recruiting. Very few good players come out of there and even the so called "studs" rarely become "studs".

 

[CIL]

I said this at the game the other day and not many people agree with me but, I think it is a waste of time trying to "own" NYC recruiting. Very few good players come out of there and even the so called "studs" rarely become "studs".

I don't think it's a bad thing, if you understand the challenges and have realistic expectations. I think the NYC thing can apply to all of NYS FYI.

 

[orangepassion]

I understand it's your opinion but you can't prove it.

Is the So. Florida QB - BJ Daniels - better than Ryan Nassib?

Are the USF WRs more athletic than ours?

Is Rutger's WR Mohommed Su better than any of our WRs?

Is the UConn RB better than Bailey? Is Nick Williams the UConn return man better than anybody we have? Is the UConn kicker better than our kicker?

Indeed, one could go on and on.

The fact is that when one looks at each position one quickly concludes that our talent level - though better than it has been - is not as good as every team in the BE including perhaps UConn.

Opa-I don't get it. Marrone could have recruited McCombs, part of his job is to get talent. Look how much Charlie Strong's young guys have been doing.

 

[BlackKnight76]

I believe Hunt will have some packages next year and be the #2 and get on the field some.

agree

 

[OrangePA]

Can we please stop with this tired old argument? That team was a mirage. GRob's 1st year record was horrible but he turned the defense around that year. And behind the decent senior class he inherited were probably the worst 3 year collection of talent in SU history or pretty close to it.[/quote

Well, we can disagree, but Robinson took a 6-6 team and went 1-10.

Even with an improved defense - improved because it was a veteran defense with some decent talent, including future pros, T. Jackson, S. Gregory, J. McClain, D. Davis, A. Smith and others who got cups of coffee in the league, LaCasse, Mackey, K. Smith, and I think some others.

That 1-10 record and the loss of recruiting contacts - along with the losses of Ray Rice and Courtney Greene - obviously impacted the next few years.

The point is that Marrone inherited a much worse situation that did Robinson. C'mon Bees you can't argue that one.

 

[rrlbees]

Pfft. P lost NJ and Florida COMPLETELY long before GRob came along. GRob at least started making headway in those 2 KEY states. As to the situation, record yes, but NOT talent and it is not even CLOSE. You win with talent, not prior records.

 

[OrangePA]

Pfft. P lost NJ and Florida COMPLETELY long before GRob came along. GRob at least started making headway in those 2 KEY states. As to the situation, record yes, but NOT talent and it is not even CLOSE. You win with talent, not prior records.

Well, I know you have felt that way, but that's not how I see it.

Heck, the NJ HS Coaches Association insisted that UConn hire PP.

And, we know that Ray Rice and Greene went to Rutgers when PP was fired.

So, we disagree on this one.

 

[SWC75]

I am just not convinced that the system - the spread offense is the answer.

I think Marrone agrees with you that the offense needs big play capability - there is no doubt that our offense right now requires too many plays to score and the creates too many opportunities for error.

The "spread," however, does not necessarily bring big play capability to the table. In many ways the spread is option football and west coast football. It is about possession.

The great athletes allow the spread to get big plays - Pat White at WVU or the present QB at Michigan.

What we need are big play RBs, WRs and QB. Yesterday, there were some really nice seam routes across the middle but no "go"patterns. That's because our QB really can't throw that kind of pass consistently and our WRs are not really all that fast or physical.

So, the answer is not so much the spread, but the athletes.

I agree with most of this. The spread is a short-passing possession offense, similar to what we came out in vs. USC. I think Nassib would thrive in that but it's not a big play offense unless you have big play receivers and running backs to run itno the gaps. I thyink we might be more efficient in it but not more explosive. Doug is still learning how to be a head coach and he's going wiht what he's familar with so he wants to set iup the apss with the run, even if that's not the best way to use the personnel we have. That's why I'd like to see a two back offense next year. it would give us a more versatile and effective runing game and be appropriate for Gulley and Smith/Moore. I'd also like to see Nassib using his running ability more ala Tim Tebo. That will make us more able to do what Doug wants to do.

 

[rrlbees]

Well, I know you have felt that way, but that's not how I see it.

Heck, the NJ HS Coaches Association insisted that UConn hire PP.

And, we know that Ray Rice and Greene went to Rutgers when PP was fired.

So, we disagree on this one.

Where were those NJ HS coaches P's last few years? And Rice/Greene weren't NJ.

 

[suthrills]

If you think we're just where we were when Robinson left then you're misinformed.

In his last year Robinson was 3-9 coming off a 2-10 season - his recruiting chances for the following year were pitiful and he had won a total of 10 games in four years. And he had inherited a 6-6 team with a bowl appearance.

Obviously, Marrone's last two years were quite different than that - 13 wins, a bowl win and a nearly complete 2012 recruiting class of solid athletes.

I agree with one part of your post, however. You "don't know what the answer is."

Sorry. I just react badly to almarmist posts like your that have no factual basis whatsoever.

No need to apologize.
The last five games felt like the Grob era. Watching a hapless Syracuse team implode against teams that are beatable is very tough to stomach week after week. I fear that Marrone doesn't quite know what the answer is either. I don't think he should be fired but my confidence in him being the right guy for the job has certainly decreased.
BTW- The factual basis is that we were the worst team in the worst BCS conference when robinson left and as of today we are the worst team in the worst BCS conference. Not alarmist just a fact.

 

[orangepassion]

Also, our recruiting classes under Marrone have been far from overwhelming and that definitely includes the current class.

 

[garydelano]

I would rate the pass defense a solid and run defense a C-. On offense why didn't we run the option once and awhile. This is no the NFL. We had a Quarterback that could run it. I thought that the offence was to predictable. Offence gets a C. AND Coach please stop appologizing.