FSU/Tennessee cautionary tale

[kirbivore]

He was very good, the bad losses the last few years did him in and Gross thought he could make us into USC East

He figures out how to stop the immortal Walter Washington over right guard play followed up with the BC beatdown and he's coach until at least 2010.

 

[TheCusian]

I'm not convinced the offense has been figured out. I think it's more poor OL play, a QB not suited to run it and the OC turnover.

Steven Godfrey talks to everyone and he said this:

“Since that 10-3 campaign, Babers is 7-18 with only three league wins, and there’s growing skepticism among rival coaches in the league that his style of Briles-tree Air Raid is as effective as it was 10 years ago”

I’m partial to your explanations too. Might be a mix of all of that.

 

[TheCusian]

Unfortunately, the new OC is the same as the old OC. He didn't seek out Tony White-like rebrand for the offense. He just got another one of his guys (and it shows).

Fair in that he could have gone “outside the family”… I don’t think the new OC is the same as the old OC and that it’s a story still being written

 

[orangepassion]

Steven Godfrey talks to everyone and he said this:

“Since that 10-3 campaign, Babers is 7-18 with only three league wins, and there’s growing skepticism among rival coaches in the league that his style of Briles-tree Air Raid is as effective as it was 10 years ago”

I’m partial to your explanations too. Might be a mix of all of that.

We'll see this year. With the immense amount of experience we have and the mediocrity of the conference this year, if we don't win this year, it'll say a lot. I am optimistic because of the above mentioned factors we win some more games this year. We'll see how many.

 

[SWC75]

He figures out how to stop the immortal Walter Washington over right guard play followed up with the BC beatdown and he's coach until at least 2010.

I think you'll see us running some plays like that with Schrader. I hope they have the same success rate.

 

[SWC75]

Steven Godfrey talks to everyone and he said this:

“Since that 10-3 campaign, Babers is 7-18 with only three league wins, and there’s growing skepticism among rival coaches in the league that his style of Briles-tree Air Raid is as effective as it was 10 years ago”

I’m partial to your explanations too. Might be a mix of all of that.

I don't thin k he's running the offense he did at EIU and BG at all because we are using running quarterbacks. As he said on the show last night, our current scheme is a mix of Don Coryell's deep passing game with the Redskins running attack behind the 'Hogs'. I hope we at least have some piglets.

 

[PhatOrange]

Steven Godfrey talks to everyone and he said this:

“Since that 10-3 campaign, Babers is 7-18 with only three league wins, and there’s growing skepticism among rival coaches in the league that his style of Briles-tree Air Raid is as effective as it was 10 years ago”

I’m partial to your explanations too. Might be a mix of all of that.

I wonder what those opposing coaches would think of their own systems if they were starting a FB at guard and a walkon QB.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Freeze has VA recruiting, the religious nature of Liberty helps with kids sometimes, they have a lot of money floating around, he's a former SEC guy with SEC recruiting connections

I love it... there us always an excuse. For the record Syracuse has Pennsylvania, NJ, Ohio all within decent driving distance and all football hotbeds.

Let's look at excuses why Syracuse is different:
- "But no one in PA/NJ/OH grew up dreaming of playing in Syracuse"... no one grew up wanting to play football at Liberty or Duke or WF or Vandy either
- "The big 10 owns PA/NJ/OH"... so what, the big 10 and SEC own whatever they want to own including VA/Carolinas/TN
- "The weather sucks at Syracuse"... weather sucks across most of big 10 country

The fact is Syracuse has not hired dudes who know how to build recruiting pipelines period. Dino tried when he first got here, but much like everything else with him it seems to be all a show.

 

[Briancuse]

He was very good, the bad losses the last few years did him in and Gross thought he could make us into USC East

The Temple loss was probably the one that did him in. Win that game we go to the Fiesta make the school alot of loot and P stays.

 

[djorange1989]

The Temple loss was probably the one that did him in. Win that game we go to the Fiesta make the school alot of loot and P stays.

No doubt.

 

[TheCusian]

I love it... there us always an excuse. For the record Syracuse has Pennsylvania, NJ, Ohio all within decent driving distance and all football hotbeds.

Let's look at excuses why Syracuse is different:
- "But no one in PA/NJ/OH grew up dreaming of playing in Syracuse"... no one grew up wanting to play football at Liberty or Duke or WF or Vandy either
- "The big 10 owns PA/NJ/OH"... so what, the big 10 and SEC own whatever they want to own including VA/Carolinas/TN
- "The weather sucks at Syracuse"... weather sucks across most of big 10 country

The fact is Syracuse has not hired dudes who know how to build recruiting pipelines period. Dino tried when he first got here, but much like everything else with him it seems to be all a show.

You say excuses, but I say reasons. Do some research on what third party coaches and recruiting people say about this job. It ain’t easy and it’s changed since the P days.

VA > NY in recruiting. PA/NJ/OH are good recruiting states and some of our best players are from there.

Didn’t say anything about weather. I think it’s an overstated negative. I didn’t say the B1G owns any area recruiting, though we lose recruits to Penn St more than Rutgers, traditionally and I’m sure you agree that makes sense?

I think we can do better at recruiting - I just don’t think it’s by much. Unless we start winning consistently - which is hard when you finish in the bottom of the recruiting rankings.

 

[TheCusian]

I love it... there us always an excuse. For the record Syracuse has Pennsylvania, NJ, Ohio all within decent driving distance and all football hotbeds.

Let's look at excuses why Syracuse is different:
- "But no one in PA/NJ/OH grew up dreaming of playing in Syracuse"... no one grew up wanting to play football at Liberty or Duke or WF or Vandy either
- "The big 10 owns PA/NJ/OH"... so what, the big 10 and SEC own whatever they want to own including VA/Carolinas/TN
- "The weather sucks at Syracuse"... weather sucks across most of big 10 country

The fact is Syracuse has not hired dudes who know how to build recruiting pipelines period. Dino tried when he first got here, but much like everything else with him it seems to be all a show.

I also think it’s easy to think it’s always the
staffs fault (Marrone, Shafer, Babers) because it’s easier to blame people over big systemic issues outside of our control

 

[upperdeck]

I wonder what those opposing coaches would think of their own systems if they were starting a FB at guard and a walkon QB

look what happened to Clemson so far on offense when the lose a couple really good plays and only fill them in with 4-5 star guys

 

[TheCusian]

I wonder what those opposing coaches would think of their own systems if they were starting a FB at guard and a walkon QB.

Yeah, plays a part. I just think it needed a refresh and it was a little too predictable. If you know what the offense is keying on, it’s easy to predict - especially if the system is fairly simple. Even in 2018, I think Dungey covered up and freelanced his way out of stuff.

But I absolutely agree the OL was bad enough to crater most offenses.

 

[OrangeFoo]

look what happened to Clemson so far on offense when the lose a couple really good plays and only fill them in with 4-5 star guys

I think Clemson is facing a similar problem to us in that their qb isn’t ready. I feel like 5-7 years ago there were a ton of good qbs in college, but now there seems to be lack of elite qbs. Maybe it’s because so many qbs are taught run first throw second… or maybe it’s because they are evaluated in 7 v 7 conditions and not true game conditions or maybe I’m just old and cranky and miss Jim Kelly.

 

[kcsu]

You say excuses, but I say reasons. Do some research on what third party coaches and recruiting people say about this job. It ain’t easy and it’s changed since the P days.

VA > NY in recruiting. PA/NJ/OH are good recruiting states and some of our best players are from there.

Didn’t say anything about weather. I think it’s an overstated negative. I didn’t say the B1G owns any area recruiting, though we lose recruits to Penn St more than Rutgers, traditionally and I’m sure you agree that makes sense?

I think we can do better at recruiting - I just don’t think it’s by much. Unless we start winning consistently - which is hard when you finish in the bottom of the recruiting rankings.

Its coaching. White has created a very good D in 2 years. Its utter crap that we cant be better. Hire a solid O staff and recruiting will improve.

 

[TheCusian]

Its coaching. White has created a very good D in 2 years. Its utter crap that we cant be better. Hire a solid O staff and recruiting will improve.

It’s recruiting, luck, and coaching. You may be right about the O staff. I’m not ready to say that yet

 

[Chip]

I wonder what those opposing coaches would think of their own systems if they were starting a FB at guard and a walkon QB.

It's deeper than that, we don't have the WRs to run it either.

Defenses always catch up to innovative offenses. But if you have the players, it doesn't really matter.

Nick Saban finally warmed up to the idea that defense wins championships is dead, so he scrapped the run based system and incorporated more of a vertical passing game. It wasn't necessarily a groundbreaking scheme though. It was just the best playcallers and players that money can buy.

 

[orangepassion]

Its coaching. White has created a very good D in 2 years. Its utter crap that we cant be better. Hire a solid O staff and recruiting will improve.

We've recruited some positions well (such as LB, DB)-We've struggled most at QB and on the lines. I think the transfer portal should lessen the pressure there, particularly at QB.

 

[SWC75]

It's deeper than that, we don't have the WRs to run it either.

Defenses always catch up to innovative offenses. But if you have the players, it doesn't really matter.

Nick Saban finally warmed up to the idea that defense wins championships is dead, so he scrapped the run based system and incorporated more of a vertical passing game. It wasn't necessarily a groundbreaking scheme though. It was just the best playcallers and players that money can buy.

If the line stinks you aren't going to find out what the wideouts can really do.

 

[elimunelson]

The Temple loss was probably the one that did him in. Win that game we go to the Fiesta make the school alot of loot and P stays.

Or win the bowl game, which we usually did in the Pasqualoni era. The loss to FSU was preventable too. Would have been a big statement for Paul that year and we outplayed them throughout. Strange season for sure. Was at the BC game and I've honestly never been to a game where I was convinced we'd lose by 3 TDs to win by 3TDs.

I think even w Temple loss, if Pitt loses to USF following week we have a shot at the Fiesta still?

 

[dan7800]

And yet, each year, the experts state "I expect Tennessee to be really good this year. I see an 8-4, 9-3 season. Great Coach, great recruits" blah, blah, blah

Same for USC

 

[Cadillac]

Here’s a shortlist for JW to consider:
Joe Moorhead
Doug Marrone
Bob Chesney
Curt Cignetti
Jeff Monken

Marrone? Are people seriously there?

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Not only can churn be disastrous as you mentioned, but there are situations where it can never even have a shot to succeed. It can start out on the wrong foot so easily bc programs all think they are worthy of getting a Nick Saban/Urban Meyer-level guy.

Then reality hits.

Then they don't give the new person (that was like the program's fifth choice and probably the fans' 100th choice) enough time or support to get back to being able to win at a high level.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

None of the above is a commentary on Dino, btw. I'm just saying, in general.

Getting a program to the level where it's consistently winning at a high level is very hard. It takes a lot of support, especially financially, the right coach and staff, the right AD and still you need to get a bit lucky.

Honestly, I wish I appreciated the P years more than I did. I used to think winning only 6 games was a travesty and if we won less than that the world would just explode.

I always wonder whether the posters on this forum, who are incessantly calling for Boeheim to retire, read a article like this and introspect much that maybe, just maybe, there is a pretty good chance that SU hoops could go the same way as Tennessee football?

 

[javadoc]

Or win the bowl game, which we usually did in the Pasqualoni era. The loss to FSU was preventable too. Would have been a big statement for Paul that year and we outplayed them throughout. Strange season for sure. Was at the BC game and I've honestly never been to a game where I was convinced we'd lose by 3 TDs to win by 3TDs.

I think even w Temple loss, if Pitt loses to USF following week we have a shot at the Fiesta still?

Part of the reason we used to win the bowl games so regularly, IMO, is that we would have a What loss during the season that dropped us to a lower tier bowl than we should have been in.