FSU vs The ACC | Page 82 | Syracusefan.com

FSU vs The ACC

HtownOrange said:
I think this places the cart before the horse. FSU and Clemson must:

1) win the right to leave the ACC in court (after all appeals and such)
2) prove they have the financial resources to pay the exit fee and the rights buy backs
3) must obtain BOT approvals
4) must actually provide notice that they will leave the ACC

Until that point, the matter is only a threat. Under the first point, FSU and Clemson face a steep uphill battle as several on here have notes and a few outsiders have delineated in detail. Until this hurdle -or should I say chasm - all other points are moot.

Under the second point, as it stands neither school has the resources at hand to leave immediately, making all other points moot.

Under the third point, the BOT have the fiduciary duty to make sure the overall deal is good for the school. Unless FSU and Clemson can get out for less than $100MM, it is not likely to be a sound financial decision upon a close scrutiny by financial minds.

ESPN should proceed as if FSU and Clemson are staying out in the ACC. Ignore clickbait generators and idiots who pretend to know:

- business
- contract law
- intellectual property law/entertainment law (GOR)
- negotiation tactics

Watching Hollywood is not like the real world. Fast deals can only be made by novices or when highly experienced professionals know the material and want to work with each other. FSU's AD is neither a highly experienced professional in this arena nor does he wish to work with anyone. He is attempting to force his will on 14 other schools with equally or higher skilled professionals.

Just my take.
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I agree. Clemson & FSU are stuck until the television contract is up. That's how I see it, unless ESPN wants to actively destroy the ACC.
 
HtownOrange said:
The B1G and SEC will wait until the GOR is up. Even UT and OU had to figure their own way before the SEC would let them in. Both were going to wait out the GOR and then move. UCLA and USC waited out the GOR.

The real issues are how good are the ACC, B1G, and SEC in 2036. I think the reality is that several former big dogs are going to feel much smaller and pine for smaller conferences, or at least formalized divisions of the former conference sizes (at least 6 teams, probably 8 - my guess, no inside info).

Is status quo holds out until 2936, I would expect FSU and Clemson to take off to greener pastures and the ACC will get picked over to fill the monster conferences. Again, just a guess, no inside info.
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The big wake-up call over the next 10 years is what happens to former "glory programs" when they finish around .500 year after year. A number of formerly great programs have been destroyed by conference realignment.

Look what's happened to Arkansas with all the SEC expansion over the last 15 years. They used to be a contender for a lot of years. Look at Nebraska to the Big 10. That didn't turn out remotely how they hoped it would.

How are all the new teams in the SEC doing? Texas A&M joined in 2013, and they haven't won 10 games even once since then. They've only been ranked 3 or 4 times in all those years. Even teams like Auburn haven't won 10 games since 2017.

Maryland hasn't won more than 7 games since moving to the Big 10. You might think, "well, they were never that good anyway ..." But in fact, under Ralph Friedgen in the early 2000s, they played in 7 bowl games, and won 9 or more games 5 out of 10 years in that decade.

Going back to ancient history (my era as a young man), they were very good under Bobby Ross in the 80s, and Jerry Claiborne in the 70s, playing in 11 bowls back in those days, when they were much harder to come by.

They are never going to compete for a championship in football in the Big 10. They're never going to even play in a meaningful game again, say in a quality bowl. There are just too many programs who will be better than them, year after year after year.

That's the downside to mega-conferences. There are fewer teams to beat up on, to break your team in at the beginning of the season and work out the kinks with a new squad, before you start playing important games. Soon, they will ALL be important games.

They should post signs on the Big 2: "Abandon all hope ye who enter here!"
 
IthacaMatt said:
The big wake-up call over the next 10 years is what happens to former "glory programs" when they finish around .500 year after year. A number of formerly great programs have been destroyed by conference realignment.

Look what's happened to Arkansas with all the SEC expansion over the last 15 years. They used to be a contender for a lot of years. Look at Nebraska to the Big 10. That didn't turn out remotely how they hoped it would.

How are all the new teams in the SEC doing? Texas A&M joined in 2013, and they haven't won 10 games even once since then. They've only been ranked 3 or 4 times in all those years. Even teams like Auburn haven't won 10 games since 2017.

Maryland hasn't won more than 7 games since moving to the Big 10. You might think, "well, they were never that good anyway ..." But in fact, under Ralph Friedgen in the early 2000s, they played in 7 bowl games, and won 9 or more games 5 out of 10 years in that decade.

Going back to ancient history (my era as a young man), they were very good under Bobby Ross in the 80s, and Jerry Claiborne in the 70s, playing in 11 bowls back in those days, when they were much harder to come by.

They are never going to compete for a championship in football in the Big 10. They're never going to even play in a meaningful game again, say in a quality bowl. There are just too many programs who will be better than them, year after year after year.

That's the downside to mega-conferences. There are fewer teams to beat up on, to break your team in at the beginning of the season and work out the kinks with a new squad, before you start playing important games. Soon, they will ALL be important games.

They should post signs on the Big 2: "Abandon all hope ye who enter here!"
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You just have to look at Penn St. They used to compete for National Championships, and were the beast of the east.
Now they are the 3rd best team in their division.
 
HtownOrange said:
The B1G and SEC will wait until the GOR is up. Even UT and OU had to figure their own way before the SEC would let them in. Both were going to wait out the GOR and then move. UCLA and USC waited out the GOR.

The real issues are how good are the ACC, B1G, and SEC in 2036. I think the reality is that several former big dogs are going to feel much smaller and pine for smaller conferences, or at least formalized divisions of the former conference sizes (at least 6 teams, probably 8 - my guess, no inside info).

Is status quo holds out until 2936, I would expect FSU and Clemson to take off to greener pastures and the ACC will get picked over to fill the monster conferences. Again, just a guess, no inside info.
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SEC and ACC are run by ESPN. Would be a bad deal for them to allow the ACC to dissolve would be a huge increase
 
sufandu said:
That works for some people. Never me. I watch sport for the sake of sport.
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I must be Abnormal. I have gotten to the point that that I couldn't care less about the NFL or any Pro Sport. They have priced themselves where the average fan cannot afford to attend their games. Now the College game is trying to do the same.I could care less to watch the Alabama's and the Ohio States. I have been a Syracuse Fan for70 years and I will continue no matter what league the play in. At least I can still afford to go to their games.
 
IthacaMatt said:
Well, that doesn't work without a basis for a rooting interest, in my opinion.

"Sport for the sake of sport" reminds me of an e-Football show I saw on TV a few times last year. It was like someone playing Madden football, but all the teams and players were made anonymous.

So, you have 2 football gamers "announcing" a game where you don't who any of the players are, let alone, who are the good ones, what are the standings, the rivalries, what are their backstories, etc.

It makes it kind of pointless to me, like watching basketball played in another country. Sure, it's kind of entertaining if you're there, but would you ever make time to watch this on TV? Why, right?

If you like e-Sports that much, you can just go play Madden against your friend, or against other people online. I just don't get it.

College sports is going that way with the reinvention of every team's roster every year. There is more continuity on teams in the pros than there is in college now. That hurts the product.

You don't build lasting memories of players if they only stay for a year or two, and leave just as they're starting to get good. Add in NIL, and that's where we're at now.

Geographic and historical rivalries continue to diminish, with every conference move.

College sports is barely watchable if it isn't your team.
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For me, betting and fantasy leagues are not a basis for a rooting interest.
 
RCDICK44 said:
I must be Abnormal. I have gotten to the point that that I couldn't care less about the NFL or any Pro Sport. They have priced themselves where the average fan cannot afford to attend their games. Now the College game is trying to do the same.I could care less to watch the Alabama's and the Ohio States. I have been a Syracuse Fan for70 years and I will continue no matter what league the play in. At least I can still afford to go to their games.
Expand...
I'm missing how this pertains to my comment you replied to.
 
RCDICK44 said:
I must be Abnormal. I have gotten to the point that that I couldn't care less about the NFL or any Pro Sport. They have priced themselves where the average fan cannot afford to attend their games. Now the College game is trying to do the same.I could care less to watch the Alabama's and the Ohio States. I have been a Syracuse Fan for70 years and I will continue no matter what league the play in. At least I can still afford to go to their games.
Expand...

NFL over expanded, demanded too much viewing time, too many nights and days of the week. I felt like I couldn't keep up, and that was about 20 years ago that I felt it was over-saturated. Now, I watch the NFL when a team of interest is doing well, or toward the back end of the playoffs, because you have to at least be conversant for business purposes. LOL

European soccer eats up all my sports time, other than SU hoops and football. Other than that, I just channel surf out of boredom most of the time. If the Yankees are going well, I tune in, but then if they fall apart (like they have), I don't lose my shtt about it, I just lose interest. Same with the Giants. I don't bother with hockey. and haven't since the early 90s.

The Knicks capture my attention when they're going well and seem like a playoff team. But when they're in the pits, I don't waste my time. I was hopeful for the Nets when they first built their super team, but that all fell apart in 2 seasons, and they're trash again.

Following the Premier League, the Cup competitions, the top teams in the Big 5 leagues, Champions League, Europa League, that's plenty to watch, and is a great viewing experience compared to most sports.

No timeouts, two halves of 45+ minutes of continuous action, limited substitutions, no commercial breaks. Players tend to score either early by overwhelming an unprepared opponent, or they score late in a half or a game, as the players have tired and begin making bad decisions under pressure.

The typical game these days features 3 goals and at least 10 shots on goal. As you get more familiar, tactics are like a living chess game, with 11 guys having to cooperate and cover for each other in order for the team to be at its best.

Then when these International tournaments come around, you know nearly all the top players. I don't feel that way about any American sports anymore.
 
Last edited:
OmahaCuse said:
SEC and ACC are run by ESPN. Would be a bad deal for them to allow the ACC to dissolve would be a huge increase
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I agree. Past posts have noted that I don't think ESPN gives any ground to the BTN and Fox.

Plus, if ESPN loses the northeast they will be out of college sports in the northeast for a very long time. Fox has the BTN and Big East, if they get SU and Pitt, the lock it all down. Sure, BC exists but they don't carry a lot of weight, beyond bringing MA into the network fold.
 
IthacaMatt said:
NFL over expanded, demanded too much viewing time, too many nights and days of the week. I felt like I couldn't keep up, and that was about 20 years ago that I felt it was over-saturated. Now, I watch the NFL when a team of interest is doing well, or toward the back end of the playoffs, because you have to at least be conversant for business purposes. LOL

European soccer eats up all my sports time, other than SU hoops and football. Other than that, I just channel surf out of boredom most of the time. If the Yankees are going well, I tune in, but then if they fall apart (like they have), I don't lose my shtt about it, I just lose interest. Same with the Giants. I don't bother with hockey. and haven't since the early 90s.

The Knicks capture my attention when they're going well and seem like a playoff team. But when they're in the pits, I don't waste my time. I was hopeful for the Nets when they first built their super team, but that all fell apart in 2 seasons, and they're trash again.

Following the Premier League, the Cup competitions, the top teams in the Big 5 leagues, Champions League, Europa League, that's plenty to watch, and is a great viewing experience compared to most sports.

No timeouts, two halves of 45+ minutes of continuous action, limited substitutions, no commercial breaks. Players tend to score either early by overwhelming an unprepared opponent, or they score late in a half or a game, as the players have tired and begin making bad decisions under pressure.

The typical game these days features 3 goals and at least 10 shots on goal. As you get more familiar, tactics are like a living chess game, with 11 guys having to cooperate and cover for each other in order for the team to be at its best.

Then when these International tournaments come around, you know nearly all the top players. I don't feel that way about any American sports anymore.
Expand...
Your post should help show some of these idiot network people that their placing all legs in the basket of not just American football but Anmericvan football played by no more than 40 or so schools that have the largest TV audiences is shirt sighted at best. Deep interest in soccer contuses, as does the growth of lacrosse from grade school age kid leagues through high schools across the nation. I a quarter century the US may have twice or more the number of hardcore soccer fans it now has, and if so, then any Major conferees that does not play top level soccer will be a drag on its network.

Top rated American football might still completely cover that, but it also might now. That means that a wise network intends to make certain it shows league sn and teams that are much more than just large TV audience football.

But is Disney these days anywhere close to being wise?
 
Gambling plays a major role in football's popularity - the diehards are the diehards but more fringe people watch because they wager. When I say wager I don't mean your traditional take the points - people wager every play. Football takes too long and has many issues but it is the perfect tempo for the gambler.
 
RCDICK44 said:
I must be Abnormal. I have gotten to the point that that I couldn't care less about the NFL or any Pro Sport. They have priced themselves where the average fan cannot afford to attend their games. Now the College game is trying to do the same.I could care less to watch the Alabama's and the Ohio States. I have been a Syracuse Fan for70 years and I will continue no matter what league the play in. At least I can still afford to go to their games.
Expand...
I can not remember the last time I watched an entire NFL regular season game. Playoffs, sure. Not the regular season. I can find other things to do on Sunday.
 
Newhouser said:
Gambling plays a major role in football's popularity - the diehards are the diehards but more fringe people watch because they wager. When I say wager I don't mean your traditional take the points - people wager every play. Football takes too long and has many issues but it is the perfect tempo for the gambler.
Expand...
I saw an item some years ago that said without gambling and fantasy leagues (which is gambling) the NFL would have died.
 
It's funny to read these comments, since I'm the opposite. As college football slips closer and closer to the abyss, I find myself much more engaged in pro sports. Largely because the system is transparent and level.

Equal splits of national media revenue, salary caps with penalties for exceeding it, well-established rules for free agency, contract terms, drafts and the like. Every pro sport prioritizes parity.

College is an epic mess on all of those fronts and prioritizes greed and the caste system. The only good thing about college football is gameday. Every other day suuuuuucks.
 
IthacaMatt said:
The typical game these days features 3 goals and at least 10 shots on goal. As you get more familiar, tactics are like a living chess game, with 11 guys having to cooperate and cover for each other in order for the team to be at its best.
Expand...
That's probably way too cerebral for the average short attention span American viewer.
 
Scooch said:
It's funny to read these comments, since I'm the opposite. As college football slips closer and closer to the abyss, I find myself much more engaged in pro sports. Largely because the system is transparent and level.

Equal splits of national media revenue, salary caps with penalties for exceeding it, well-established rules for free agency, contract terms, drafts and the like. Every pro sport prioritizes parity.

College is an epic mess on all of those fronts and prioritizes greed and the caste system. The only good thing about college football is gameday. Every other day suuuuuucks.
Expand...
I can't argue. While nothing will ever top my passion for SU, my interest in the overall sport now leans more towards the pro leagues for the reasons you mention. Pro teams generally need to look in the mirror for the reason why, if they stink.
 
I am really interested to see how the 12 team playoff format plays out this year. For me it has added more interest as it feels like SU has a chance in some years (maybe this year!?!) to qualify. That said if it is just devolves into more of the same type games spread over a long period it might not really change things. Will it eventually be 6 SEC and 6 Big45 teams? My interest level would wane. I would still watch Syracuse like most here.

It feels to me like there have not been many memorable playoff games in the 4 team format. It could be that I have been hate watching conferences and rooting against programs or hoping for non blowout games.

MSOrange said:
I can't argue. While nothing will ever top my passion for SU, my interest in the overall sport now leans more towards the pro leagues for the reasons you mention.
Expand...
 
SkyTopBus44 said:
I am really interested to see how the 12 team playoff format plays out this year. For me it has added more interest as it feels like SU has a chance in some years (maybe this year!?!) to qualify. That said if it is just devolves into more of the same type games spread over a long period it might not really change things. Will it eventually be 6 SEC and 6 Big45 teams? My interest level would wane. I would still watch Syracuse like most here.

It feels to me like there have not been many memorable playoff games in the 4 team format. It could be that I have been hate watching conferences and rooting against programs or hoping for non blowout games.
Expand...
That's a really good point. I will be interested to see how the 12 team plays out and if it just leads to the same expected teams advancing to the finals anyway
 

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