FSU vs The ACC

[MSOrange]

I am really interested to see how the 12 team playoff format plays out this year. For me it has added more interest as it feels like SU has a chance in some years (maybe this year!?!) to qualify. That said if it is just devolves into more of the same type games spread over a long period it might not really change things. Will it eventually be 6 SEC and 6 Big45 teams? My interest level would wane. I would still watch Syracuse like most here.

It feels to me like there have not been many memorable playoff games in the 4 team format. It could be that I have been hate watching conferences and rooting against programs or hoping for non blowout games.

That's a really good point. I will be interested to see how the 12 team plays out and if it just leads to the same expected teams advancing to the finals anyway

 

[elimunelson]

It's funny to read these comments, since I'm the opposite. As college football slips closer and closer to the abyss, I find myself much more engaged in pro sports. Largely because the system is transparent and level.

Equal splits of national media revenue, salary caps with penalties for exceeding it, well-established rules for free agency, contract terms, drafts and the like. Every pro sport prioritizes parity.

College is an epic mess on all of those fronts and prioritizes greed and the caste system. The only good thing about college football is gameday. Every other day suuuuuucks.

100%

I enjoy the politics/palace intrigue of reallignment because it's game of thrones kayfabe. No one knows how it will end.

I also enjoy Syracuse forever. No matter the scenario i'll always try and tune into the hoops/football. That'll never change for me. The hope of being a championship contender may go away but i'll still check in. I have a kid at holy cross and they'll never win a football championship but i still thoroughly enjoy going to games in worcester. It's the sport on game day still. Rest is ghoulish intrigue and/or grotesque capitalism.

 

[Hoo's That]

It's funny to read these comments, since I'm the opposite. As college football slips closer and closer to the abyss, I find myself much more engaged in pro sports. Largely because the system is transparent and level.

Equal splits of national media revenue, salary caps with penalties for exceeding it, well-established rules for free agency, contract terms, drafts and the like. Every pro sport prioritizes parity.

College is an epic mess on all of those fronts and prioritizes greed and the caste system. The only good thing about college football is gameday. Every other day suuuuuucks.

You need to remember that it took quite a while for pro sports to get to this position. George F. Will once said, "I hate to have to admit it, but socialism {the common draft} saved baseball." Imagine what the MLB would be like without it. I'd like to think that college sports will eventually settle into some sort of new normal, too.

 

[gmoney44]

I saw an item some years ago that said without gambling and fantasy leagues (which is gambling) the NFL would have died.

The NFL did just fine before fantasy and legal sports book betting hit the internet and every state.

 

[Scooch]

This is why UConn is a no brainer to the ACC that people seem to not understand.

I agree but that kind of talk is frowned on here.

 

[Scooch]

You need to remember that it took quite a while for pro sports to get to this position. George F. Will once said, "I hate to have to admit it, but socialism {the common draft} saved baseball." Imagine what the MLB would be like without it. I'd like to think that college sports will eventually settle into some sort of new normal, too.

Sure, but pro sports have been in this current position for nearly 30 years now. The model was built long ago and it has been wildly successful.

Not only has college ignored it, but they've actively moved in the opposite direction. I have zero optimism that they'll adopt more of that philosophy. It's all greed and selfishness all the time.

 

[NKR1978]

I agree but that kind of talk is frowned on here.

I get it and I don’t get it. I really just want to regularly play teams that I hate.

 

[orlandoorange]

There are a lot of reasons to not take FSU. They can still get into Florida and the South without the headache.

There are a lot of reasons not to. But there's about 22M reasons to take them.

The U is a small private, USF is not relevant. FSU is the strongest brand in the state outside of UF. Time and potential market size heals all wounds.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

There are a lot of reasons not to. But there's about 22M reasons to take them.

The U is a small private, USF is not relevant. FSU is the strongest brand in the state outside of UF. Time and potential market size heals all wounds.

22M?

All in all IMO Miami is the better choice. The B18 has enough brands and most of their fanbases are larger and more loyal than that of FSU. They don't need FSU. They need to be in Florida and adding a school in South Alabama in the end isn't worth it IMO.

 

[SmilinBob]

22M?

All in all IMO Miami is the better choice. The B18 has enough brands and most of their fanbases are larger and more loyal than that of FSU. They don't need FSU. They need to be in Florida and adding a school in South Alabama in the end isn't worth it IMO.

I think Miami is being stealthy and feel the Big Infinity and beyond 10 would be interested in them. I still they (Big10) are waiting to see how this FSU thing flys and they are the key to seeing how the ACC can be broken.

What completely confuses me, we I suppose $ is always king, is that the ACC has so many National Champions of late and why it's "Considered" 4th best by pundits seems to be the tail wagging the dog...say something enough times and people start to believe it.

 

[kcsu]

Its n

I think Miami is being stealthy and feel the Big Infinity and beyond 10 would be interested in them. I still they (Big10) are waiting to see how this FSU thing flys and they are the key to seeing how the ACC can be broken.

What completely confuses me, we I suppose $ is always king, is that the ACC has so many National Champions of late and why it's "Considered" 4th best by pundits seems to be the tail wagging the dog...say something enough times and people start to believe it.

It's not considered 4th by the Networks.
The ACC is going to be fine. It's the 12 that needs to worry when their contract is up.

 

[SmilinBob]

Its n

It's not considered 4th by the Networks.
The ACC is going to be fine. It's the 12 that needs to worry when their contract is up.

Agree kc. It's just annoying as heck hearing these rumors and imo FSU should be sued for damages and lawyer fees.

 

[HtownOrange]

Agree kc. It's just annoying as heck hearing these rumors and imo FSU should be sued for damages and lawyer fees.

I agree on a moral basis, FSU should pay the ACC legal fees. However, I think the side with the moral upper hand usually has to give up something to bridge the gap in a relationship to move forward. Besides, the ACC will hold moral leverage over FSU if they do not crush FSU while forcing FSU to stay.

If FSU continues its petulance under Alford, nobody will want FSU and they could get dumped for being more work than worth. All the while the remaining ACC schools look that much more palatable to the other conferences, should the ACC implode. (Recall that the B1G and SEC are not looking to destroy the ACC but will take a share if the ACC implodes a' la PAC 12)

I think FSU will soon reason that they are not going anywhere soon. I think they dump Alford realizing he is only an ambulance chaser who is as shallow as a puddle in the road and les useful. Alford lacks business sense and cooperation necessary to get projects together, see them through completion, and work with others. The mind set of an ambulance chaser is completely different than a business manager or administrator or, dare I say, Athletic Director.

If Alford is replaced with a true AD, then FSU can heal the breach and move forward. Unless FSU becomes world beaters on the scale of Sabban/Alabama, they will not move the needle much for the SEC or B1G.*

Anyway, FSU has yet to realize that even if they win they lose. Alford is the big loser and they followed him wielding pebbles and butter knives into battle against fully mechanized modern armies of the ACC, ESPN, B1G, SEC, and Fox.** The Big 12 is hoping for table scraps but there will not be any.


* Obviously, if the ACC implodes, either now or in 2036, both the SEC and B1G will take what they want.

** I included Fox because no one wants the GORs made public. It's not even in FSU's interest to do so as once the GOR is revealed and destroyed there are no GORs for FSU to join for protection and guaranteed payouts.

 

[HtownOrange]

Its n

It's not considered 4th by the Networks.
The ACC is going to be fine. It's the 12 that needs to worry when their contract is up.

The mouths chanting the Big 12 mantra are Big 12 supporters. They are loud, proud, ignorant and largely unwanted. The few teams that may be wanted if super leagues are the goal are being quiet about everything, watching, waiting, observing, and preparing.

It's not likely that OSU, TTU, ISU, and others are high on the selection list of the other three power conferences.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think Miami is being stealthy and feel the Big Infinity and beyond 10 would be interested in them. I still they (Big10) are waiting to see how this FSU thing flys and they are the key to seeing how the ACC can be broken.

What completely confuses me, we I suppose $ is always king, is that the ACC has so many National Champions of late and why it's "Considered" 4th best by pundits seems to be the tail wagging the dog...say something enough times and people start to believe it.

Smaller fanbases in the ACC. I am a believer of attendance being a good indicator of overall fanbase size. Outside of Clemson, the ACC does not have a big boy in that regard.

I think the B18 wants to be in Florida. It also wants a brand. But at the same time it does not want a school that will challenge the status quo at the top of the conference. It also does not want a rabble rouser or renegade program. That is why IMO Miami is a great fit and FSU is a poor one. On top of FSU being a new kid on the block when compared to the history of the B18 programs.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Smaller fanbases in the ACC. I am a believer of attendance being a good indicator of overall fanbase size. Outside of Clemson, the ACC does not have a big boy in that regard.

I think the B18 wants to be in Florida. It also wants a brand. But at the same time it does not want a school that will challenge the status quo at the top of the conference. It also does not want a rabble rouser or renegade program. That is why IMO Miami is a great fit and FSU is a poor one. On top of FSU being a new kid on the block when compared to the history of the B18 programs.

Miami is literally the hottest city in the US at the moment. I feel they are higher than FSU in the pecking order

 

[kirbivore]

I just read an article about yesterday's SEC media day and it led me to check out the college football 2024 standings page on ESPN.com.

It's all so ridiculous and jarring.

16, 17 and 18 team conferences that are smashed together like a 4 year old playing with Play-Doh.

Watch the collectives start to dry up when those boosters of the teams finishing in the back of those standings can't justify the expense anymore.

 

[kirbivore]

It's funny to read these comments, since I'm the opposite. As college football slips closer and closer to the abyss, I find myself much more engaged in pro sports. Largely because the system is transparent and level.

One of the many reasons my personal rankings have always had NFL over NCAA FB

 

[MikeSU02]

HtownOrange can you go over this?

 

[HouClone]

The mouths chanting the Big 12 mantra are Big 12 supporters. They are loud, proud, ignorant and largely unwanted. The few teams that may be wanted if super leagues are the goal are being quiet about everything, watching, waiting, observing, and preparing.

It's not likely that OSU, TTU, ISU, and others are high on the selection list of the other three power conferences.

I kind of agree but on the flip side, do you want to see the knife coming or not? Big 12 and Pac were blindsided with the Big 12 worse off as left them with no brands and below the threshold of the tv contracts. Fortunately for them, A&M leaked the move. Texas and OU were planning on doing a USC/UCLA but worse and informing the Big 12 at the last minute before contract renewal. Total bush move.

 

[HtownOrange]

Assuming FSU drops its suit or ultimately loses one way or another (which they will as they still lack money to buy their way out), the ACC holds until the end, or near enough that FSU can then buy their way out. That said, the ACC has 10+ years to improve as a conference and as individual teams.

In that same period, the SEC and B1G being overloaded with “premium” brands will probably see discontent because former powers are mediocre or less. Statistically, there simply are insufficient conference games to be won by the former powers to remain powers. Conference play is a zero sum gain, one winner and one loser in each game. Sure, the top winners still look good, but what about the others who no longer are powers or who no longer are contenders? Alternatively, the conference season truly decimates the conference and the champ has an 8-4 record going into the championship game. Either way, fans will be upset, donors slow the money spigot (H/T to Kirbivore), and the former powers will either need additional canon fodder in the conference to beat up on or will want smaller regional conferences so they can be powers again. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[Hoo's That]

Assuming FSU drops its suit or ultimately loses one way or another (which they will as they still lack money to buy their way out), the ACC holds until the end, or near enough that FSU can then buy their way out. That said, the ACC has 10+ years to improve as a conference and as individual teams.

In that same period, the SEC and B1G being overloaded with “premium” brands will probably see discontent because former powers are mediocre or less. Statistically, there simply are insufficient conference games to be won by the former powers to remain powers. Conference play is a zero sum gain, one winner and one loser in each game. Sure, the top winners still look good, but what about the others who no longer are powers or who no longer are contenders? Alternatively, the conference season truly decimates the conference and the champ has an 8-4 record going into the championship game. Either way, fans will be upset, donors slow the money spigot (H/T to Kirbivore), and the former powers will either need additional canon fodder in the conference to beat up on or will want smaller regional conferences so they can be powers again. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Excellent summation of Nebraska's position in the B1G. The only positive thing they accomplished was getting away from Texas.

 

[baggerbob]

I agree on a moral basis, FSU should pay the ACC legal fees. However, I think the side with the moral upper hand usually has to give up something to bridge the gap in a relationship to move forward. Besides, the ACC will hold moral leverage over FSU if they do not crush FSU while forcing FSU to stay.

If FSU continues its petulance under Alford, nobody will want FSU and they could get dumped for being more work than worth. All the while the remaining ACC schools look that much more palatable to the other conferences, should the ACC implode. (Recall that the B1G and SEC are not looking to destroy the ACC but will take a share if the ACC implodes a' la PAC 12)

I think FSU will soon reason that they are not going anywhere soon. I think they dump Alford realizing he is only an ambulance chaser who is as shallow as a puddle in the road and les useful. Alford lacks business sense and cooperation necessary to get projects together, see them through completion, and work with others. The mind set of an ambulance chaser is completely different than a business manager or administrator or, dare I say, Athletic Director.

If Alford is replaced with a true AD, then FSU can heal the breach and move forward. Unless FSU becomes world beaters on the scale of Sabban/Alabama, they will not move the needle much for the SEC or B1G.*

Anyway, FSU has yet to realize that even if they win they lose. Alford is the big loser and they followed him wielding pebbles and butter knives into battle against fully mechanized modern armies of the ACC, ESPN, B1G, SEC, and Fox.** The Big 12 is hoping for table scraps but there will not be any.


* Obviously, if the ACC implodes, either now or in 2036, both the SEC and B1G will take what they want.

** I included Fox because no one wants the GORs made public. It's not even in FSU's interest to do so as once the GOR is revealed and destroyed there are no GORs for FSU to join for protection and guaranteed payouts.

And if the GOR's go out the window, there is nothing left to stop the conferences from cutting lose members they don't want

 

[WoadBlue]

Excellent summation of Nebraska's position in the B1G. The only positive thing they accomplished was getting away from Texas.

Huskers fans were certain that they would see all kinds of Nebraska total domination of BT football west of the Ohio St-Michigan game. Earlier, Joe Pa led PSU fans to assume that joining the BT would mean that PSU would be so good that it would even partially dislodge the Ohio ST-Michigan as THE defining BT football game.

Sometimes, actually many times, it is just plain smarter to accept a little less money and be where you fit best and belong most. NE is not a midwestern state. It is. Northern Plains state. So Nebraska not in a league filled with schools in Plains states is out of place geographically. And then we have the matter of the BT. That league indeed operates first and foremost from the Ohio St - Michigan game. Nobody can ever crack that. So unless you can accept being no more than 3rd fiddle to that game, you should avoid the BT at all costs.

PSU gave up its standard bearer as largest football fan base in the northeast playing as many eastern teams a possible to get BT money and nothing else. PSU is just another BT schools with a large stadium and very little status in the BT.

 

[HtownOrange]

And if the GOR's go out the window, there is nothing left to stop the conferences from cutting lose members they don't want

Agreed, but it, the destruction of the GORs, will cause a wild west free for all in the viewing world. Broadcasters and streamers need stable content to ensure consistent viewership. Also, the top teams need teams teams to beat up on, some tomato soup cans (Rutgers, Indiana, Vandy, etc.) some mediocre teams (Ole Miss, Arkansas, Minny,) and some decent teams that can contend (MSU, Wiscy, TAMU, LSU) as well as the top dogs. Conferences are likely to reform in some manner. However, the broadcast/streaming rights issue will need to be resolved.