Future Campus Framework Discussion

[shandeezy7]

SU's gonna fight this, I think.

Hope it works out, I believe they also have a lease with a bubble tea chain, but that is a huge empty series of storefronts.

What are the grounds for SU fighting this?

 

[OttoMets]

What are the grounds for SU fighting this?

If the recent past is an indication, they'll object to the owner's application for a special permit with the Planning Commission. I don't know that it'll make a difference, though.

 

[shandeezy7]

If the recent past is an indication, they'll object to the owner's application for a special permit with the Planning Commission. I don't know that it'll make a difference, though.

I suppose I'm also curious for their motivation. This isn't gonna be the hole-in-the-wall space that the old Chuck's was. It will be completely different. If the university is anti-drinking establishments anywhere near campus, then I'd begin to question their understanding of the desires of both students and fans alike.

 

[OttoMets]

I suppose I'm also curious for their motivation. This isn't gonna be the hole-in-the-wall space that the old Chuck's was. It will be completely different. If the university is anti-drinking establishments anywhere near campus, then I'd begin to question their understanding of the desires of both students and fans alike.

Same, seems like a blanket opposition to bars, but I could be way off.

 

[maxxyz]

I suppose I'm also curious for their motivation. This isn't gonna be the hole-in-the-wall space that the old Chuck's was. It will be completely different. If the university is anti-drinking establishments anywhere near campus, then I'd begin to question their understanding of the desires of both students and fans alike.

I think, in Steve Theobald's mind, it will be the same place. Loose rules, underage drinking, flaunt code violations, and people pissing in the sinks. While the students might be in favor, I think the university wants something a little nicer in the premium, visible locations on campus.

For years it looked like Theobald survived because his wife was a lawyer and could shield him from citations and litigation with aggressive and proactive legal responses. But she was disbarred a few years back for some wacky behavior, which forced his legal strategy to change.

 

[orangezen]

Back in late 79 = 81 DJed at Sutters was a wild time crazy crazy alot of SU athletes hung out there

 

[xc84]

Back in late 79 = 81 DJed at Sutters was a wild time crazy crazy alot of SU athletes hung out there

I knew a DJ there. Marty. Grew up a block from me. Another buddy was a bouncer. I spent a lot of time at Sutters. Yes, I saw many athletes and had a buddy who knew a lot of them so got to meet them. Some recruits too. I met King Rice in there when he was still in 9th grade. He was not drinking though.

 

[721Comstock]

Back in late 79 = 81 DJed at Sutters was a wild time crazy crazy alot of SU athletes hung out there

I tended bar there for about 1 semester, Spring ‘87.
Highlight was serving drinks to the whole men’s hoops team one night.

 

[DownTheField]

I think, in Steve Theobald's mind, it will be the same place. Loose rules, underage drinking, flaunt code violations, and people pissing in the sinks. While the students might be in favor, I think the university wants something a little nicer in the premium, visible locations on campus.

For years it looked like Theobald survived because his wife was a lawyer and could shield him from citations and litigation with aggressive and proactive legal responses. But she was disbarred a few years back for some wacky behavior, which forced his legal strategy to change.

I’m assuming he’s the one that bought it around 2014? What you’re describing sounds like Chucks’ second heyday before it was sold. The new owner took over what was probably the most popular bar in Syracuse and made enough changes that by the time it closed nobody went there other than before basketball games. I miss having a huge bar to go to before the games but it was a shell of its former self at the end.

I hope it reopens in the new building but I’ll believe it when I see it. I‘m guessing SU somehow makes it impossible to get a liquor license up there. I was a freshman in 2001 and tons of bars have closed but I think Chucks II and DJs are the only new ones that opened.

 

[maxxyz]

I’m assuming he’s the one that bought it around 2014? What you’re describing sounds like Chucks’ second heyday before it was sold. The new owner took over what was probably the most popular bar in Syracuse and made enough changes that by the time it closed nobody went there other than before basketball games. I miss having a huge bar to go to before the games but it was a shell of its former self at the end.

I hope it reopens in the new building but I’ll believe it when I see it. I‘m guessing SU somehow makes it impossible to get a liquor license up there. I was a freshman in 2001 and tons of bars have closed but I think Chucks II and DJs are the only new ones that opened.

He was an employee and became the owner. For some reason he tried to hide the fact that he was the owner for the first year or so.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Hungry Chuck’s, legendary SU off-campus bar, plans return to Marshall Street

The bar/restaurant would take ground floor space in The Marshall, the project that forced it to close in 2017.

www.syracuse.com

If they bring it back, I hope it's the 1970s/1980s version where they had good food, beer on tap and videogames / foosball. The one that was downstairs from Sutter's Mill.
When Sutter's closed, Chuck's moved upstairs and it became a total dump. There would be an inch of draft beer on the floor in that place!

I used to cook there when it was Sutter's, and we had quality pub food, better than most of today's chains. We had western style tables and chairs for lunch and dinner, and then took them off the floor at around 7 or 8 PM and it opened up as a dance club. It was awesome.
The "new" Chuck's was an Animal House, piss on the floor kind of open sewer. I don't see what anyone ever saw in that place.

 

[IthacaMatt]

What are the grounds for SU fighting this?

Liquor license violations and generally filthy overall atmosphere. It would never pass health inspection. It would be closed within a semester, if it was run anything at all like it was in the last couple decades.

An inch of cheap draft beer and plastic cups all over the floor is not a good look, son.

 

[shandeezy7]

Liquor license violations and generally filthy overall atmosphere. It would never pass health inspection. It would be closed within a semester, if it was run anything at all like it was in the last couple decades.

An inch of cheap draft beer and plastic cups all over the floor is not a good look, son.

Ok well last I checked the university isn't involved in granting liquor licenses or doing health department checks. If there's a problem, that's up to the city/county/state, not the university. They can offer their peace, but it's not their property.

 

[Moontan]

Back in my day, Chuck’s was downstairs, S(l)utters was upstairs and life was good.

 

[SU68]

If it is the same owner, I'm sure he never gave up the license. The only objection could be for zoning variances.

 

[CuseOnly]

Back in my day, Chuck’s was downstairs, S(l)utters was upstairs and life was good.

Funniest thing I ever saw there was a kid got knocked out with his hands still in his pockets. It was like he instantly fell asleep on the street.

 

[OttoMets]

I’m assuming he’s the one that bought it around 2014? What you’re describing sounds like Chucks’ second heyday before it was sold. The new owner took over what was probably the most popular bar in Syracuse and made enough changes that by the time it closed nobody went there other than before basketball games. I miss having a huge bar to go to before the games but it was a shell of its former self at the end.

I hope it reopens in the new building but I’ll believe it when I see it. I‘m guessing SU somehow makes it impossible to get a liquor license up there. I was a freshman in 2001 and tons of bars have closed but I think Chucks II and DJs are the only new ones that opened.

Yup, he got rid of the French bread pizzas, scrapped the $2 burgers on Mondays, I think cut the lunch hours, and legitimately seemed to stop cleaning the bathrooms at all.

Chuck's went from a "I'm not ashamed to stop in there at any time" bar to a "OK, if friends are here from out of town before a game, I'll tolerate it for an hour" spot.

To the second paragraph, SU formally objected to DJ's application for a special permit before the Planning Commission a few years ago. Can't remember if they did the same for the Orange Crate.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I’m assuming he’s the one that bought it around 2014? What you’re describing sounds like Chucks’ second heyday before it was sold. The new owner took over what was probably the most popular bar in Syracuse and made enough changes that by the time it closed nobody went there other than before basketball games. I miss having a huge bar to go to before the games but it was a shell of its former self at the end.

I hope it reopens in the new building but I’ll believe it when I see it. I‘m guessing SU somehow makes it impossible to get a liquor license up there. I was a freshman in 2001 and tons of bars have closed but I think Chucks II and DJs are the only new ones that opened.

yep. The food was pretty solid before 2014.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Ok well last I checked the university isn't involved in granting liquor licenses or doing health department checks. If there's a problem, that's up to the city/county/state, not the university. They can offer their peace, but it's not their property.

Actually, neighboring businesses DO get to comment on and object to liquor license applications. There must be a 30 day notice to the municipality, and a certain concentration of places that sell liquor within close proximity (like a college town environment) invites that.

 

[shandeezy7]

Actually, neighboring businesses DO get to comment on and object to liquor license applications. There must be a 30 day notice to the municipality, and a certain concentration of places that sell liquor within close proximity (like a college town environment) invites that.

Right, which is why I said they can offer their peace, but they aren’t a government regulating agency, so they have no actual authority on this matter, beyond trying to throw some weight around. And truthfully, I’m not sure how much weight a non-profit that doesn’t pay taxes and can’t pick up and move elsewhere really should have on an issue like this.

 

[upperdeck]

what if a real legit non bar place really wanted to open up in that area? a place with tables/food and a small bar presence? like a national chain like Outback type? Could it make a go in that type of area?

You know that 40-50 times a yr its gonna be packed for game days and school functions, but it would not cater to the rowdier kid crowd most of the time?

Just wondering if it would survive with avg or less crowds 75% of the days

too big with the parking issues? would people go? Like a Wild Wings in a small scale?

I remember Hooters at Destiny, it was full every time we went and it didnt last, was that a rent issue?

Would kids take over a national chain place like this on non game days?

 

[maxxyz]

what if a real legit non bar place really wanted to open up in that area? a place with tables/food and a small bar presence? like a national chain like Outback type? Could it make a go in that type of area?

You know that 40-50 times a yr its gonna be packed for game days and school functions, but it would not cater to the rowdier kid crowd most of the time?

Just wondering if it would survive with avg or less crowds 75% of the days

too big with the parking issues? would people go? Like a Wild Wings in a small scale?

I remember Hooters at Destiny, it was full every time we went and it didnt last, was that a rent issue?

Would kids take over a national chain place like this on non game days?

Alcohol sales are big money. A typical franchise restaurant like Applebees or Outback will make the same net sales at the bar as they do in food; Way lower overhead, especially for labor. But will the students want to frequent something like that? I think the concern from the university is how many altercations are there at 2am.

With rent likely being high, the 50 days a year that there are events probably isn't enough to keep a big place afloat. It needs to be busy at least 150 to survive. Chucks survived in the old Sutters location by drastically cutting expenses. Like a cleaning crew.

Parking will always be a challenge in getting customers outside of the student on-campus population.

Hooters always was going to fail at destiny because many people didn't want to be seen patronizing it. They did better at stand-alone locations. My sister in law has a serious hatred for the place, maybe because her husband would try the "but they have great wings" argument.

Surprisingly Destiny has turned into a hotspot for the under 30 crowd on weekends. My son works there (furloughed right now) and says the crowds of people in club clothes are big. Mostly going to the upscale restaurants for late dinner and/or drinks. So maybe it would work at SU.

 

[upperdeck]

dinner drinks movies games if you want too.. its a good setup at Destiny for the most part.

 

[Oakland]

Carrier Gobal Corp (CARR) was just spun out by UTX. Market cap of $14 bio, so a little too much for SU to buy.

 

[reedny]

what if a real legit non bar place really wanted to open up in that area? a place with tables/food and a small bar presence? like a national chain like Outback type? Could it make a go in that type of area?

You know that 40-50 times a yr its gonna be packed for game days and school functions, but it would not cater to the rowdier kid crowd most of the time?

Just wondering if it would survive with avg or less crowds 75% of the days

too big with the parking issues? would people go? Like a Wild Wings in a small scale?

I remember Hooters at Destiny, it was full every time we went and it didnt last, was that a rent issue?

Would kids take over a national chain place like this on non game days?

national chain? Boo. Min-wage labor and all the profits and intellectual property fly out of town.