Future Campus Framework Discussion

[maxxyz]

national chain? Boo. Low labor costs and all the profits and intellectual property fly out of town.

Agree on all that.
Im surprised how many college students go to Tully’s on Erie Blvd. Is that just the one location? It’s semi close to LeMoyne & SU.

 

[reedny]

Agree on all that.
Im surprised how many college students go to Tully’s on Erie Blvd. Is that just the one location? It’s semi close to LeMoyne & SU.

People don't seem to grasp the benefits of keeping their consumer dollars in their community, or in their country.

 

[bnoro]

what if a real legit non bar place really wanted to open up in that area? a place with tables/food and a small bar presence? like a national chain like Outback type? Could it make a go in that type of area?

You know that 40-50 times a yr its gonna be packed for game days and school functions, but it would not cater to the rowdier kid crowd most of the time?

Just wondering if it would survive with avg or less crowds 75% of the days

too big with the parking issues? would people go? Like a Wild Wings in a small scale?

I remember Hooters at Destiny, it was full every time we went and it didnt last, was that a rent issue?

Would kids take over a national chain place like this on non game days?

If I was a student I would literally never go to a Outback/BWW/Hooters over a Chuck's/Faegan's.

"What's the plan for tonight?"
"Oh we're gonna pregame at my place and then head to the Outback on Marshall"

Seems like a great way to meet girls haha

 

[upperdeck]

but on any given day there are usually parents all over especially in the weekend.. being able to walk around campus and find a place to eat that isnt a dive. i wouldnt expect kids to go and thats the point.. on an fball bball day not everyone wants to go get drunk at game time. I would think there is a market for a bit more upscale sitting and eating. even kids like to eat a bit better sometimes

 

[TexanMark]

If I was a student I would literally never go to a Outback/BWW/Hooters over a Chuck's/Faegan's.

"What's the plan for tonight?"
"Oh we're gonna pregame at my place and then head to the Outback on Marshall"

Seems like a great way to meet girls haha

You want national chains at college? Go to UCF or some new college like that in a suburb.

 

[upperdeck]

it doesnt have to be a national chain but it needs to be more than just a bar with beer and burgers and pizza.

 

[bnoro]

but on any given day there are usually parents all over especially in the weekend.. being able to walk around campus and find a place to eat that isnt a dive. i wouldnt expect kids to go and thats the point.. on an fball bball day not everyone wants to go get drunk at game time. I would think there is a market for a bit more upscale sitting and eating. even kids like to eat a bit better sometimes

But it's not worth catering to a few hundred people for 10-15 days per year over 5 nights a week for the entire school year of college kids.

Plus is Outback/Hooters/BWW really "eating better"? There are a ton of great places around campus that deliver, and if you want to have better food, frequent the locally owned establishments in Armory.

 

[upperdeck]

its not 10-15 days though.. its 6-7 fball 20+ bball and then womens games lax, special events. its like 100+ days of solid crowds.

go look at other college towns and the food choices.. go to PSU/WV and others, some pretty solid food eateries around the campus in walking distance. Does SU have any down there that isnt really just fast food.. I mean thats all the Varsity really is.

 

[FloridaFan]

it doesnt have to be a national chain but it needs to be more than just a bar with beer and burgers and pizza.

idk about you but i can live off of pizza and burgers. i can go elsewhere for chilis or Olive garden something if i needed it

 

[shandeezy7]

But it's not worth catering to a few hundred people for 10-15 days per year over 5 nights a week for the entire school year of college kids.

Plus is Outback/Hooters/BWW really "eating better"? There are a ton of great places around campus that deliver, and if you want to have better food, frequent the locally owned establishments in Armory.

I've always thought that the biggest "problem" with Marshall St is the fact that while Syracuse is a college town, it's bigger than that and things are a little bit more spread out. You look at places like Happy Valley or Ann Arbor and the university and it's surroundings are the center of everything, so all of the bars/restaurants are mostly clustered together. They are regularly frequented by locals and students alike.

In Syracuse, you have Marshall St - which is basically exclusively used only by students or gameday crowds - and then Armory Square, Hanover Square and Tipp Hill as the other nightlife hotspots. It's tough for Marshall Street bar/restaurant owners (or prospective owners) to cater to a non-college student crowd when it's an absolute ghost town there when school isn't in session. That's why you end up with almost exclusively dive bars with minimal investment in them.

 

[bnoro]

its not 10-15 days though.. its 6-7 fball 20+ bball and then womens games lax, special events. its like 100+ days of solid crowds.

go look at other college towns and the food choices.. go to PSU/WV and others, some pretty solid food eateries around the campus in walking distance. Does SU have any down there that isnt really just fast food.. I mean thats all the Varsity really is.

Most people are parking at Manley/Skytop, how many of those are walking over there before or after the game? Football fans want to tailgate, they're not going there. Basketball fans aren't walking down there in a snowstorm or negative temperatures. Lax/women's games don't move the needle. Just get back in your car after the game and drive 10 mins to Erie Boulevard.

It's the students' campus, not yours or mine.

 

[upperdeck]

I know way more people who walk down to Marshall before a game than who tailgate other than the ones on this board. I know many who would love to go park and eat and go to the game but there are no real options.

I got 2 kids in school and they both complain about a lack of places to eat around their campus, they would love to have food options that didnt require a car and the first couple years when most kids cant legally drink its an option..

Make it something like down around harvard, bars and food its a great atmosphere all yr long.

 

[bnoro]

I know way more people who walk down to Marshall before a game than who tailgate other than the ones on this board. I know many who would love to go park and eat and go to the game but there are no real options.

I got 2 kids in school and they both complain about a lack of places to eat around their campus, they would love to have food options that didnt require a car and the first couple years when most kids cant legally drink its an option..

Make it something like down around harvard, bars and food its a great atmosphere all yr long.

There are a ton of options around Cuse that don't require a car. There's also Seamless, Grubhub, etc. You can get on the bus and go to Armory or Destiny at any time. I did all of the above as a freshman.

There's a Chipotle, Jimmy John's, Faegan's, Varsity, Pita Pit, and others all on Marshall. Plenty of options and plenty of cuisines. What else do you want to add? That's perfect for most kids that don't want dorm food all the time.

 

[OttoMets]

You want national chains at college? Go to UCF or some new college like that in a suburb.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, sounds like Sunbelt behavior. Not my cup of tea.

 

[TexanMark]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, sounds like Sunbelt behavior. Not my cup of tea.

SU isn't immune (Chipotle/Subway) but having mostly Indy restaurants and small regional chains gives the university some uniqueness.

I'd love a Tully's on campus (as a small chain). CoreLife would be nice too.

 

[OttoMets]

it doesnt have to be a national chain but it needs to be more than just a bar with beer and burgers and pizza.

I have thought of that before. For the traveling hoops crowd/DMV crowd, something like the Gallery Place Clyde's would be very cool in the Crouse/Marshall area. I think real estate costs are too high and the prospect of 15 weeks of really low revenue prevent that sort of venture from getting off the ground.

More residential density will help. But sit-down dining is increasingly a tough business everywhere, especially in college towns. Crap like Good Uncle is killing traditional brick-and-mortar businesses.

 

[TexanMark]

FoodService Director Magazine - Industry Trends, News & Menu Development Ideas | FoodService Director

Non-commercial foodservice industry trends, news, research, menu development ideas and more.

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Did not know anything about this...thanks ottomets

Barely in business before they got bought out.

FoodService Director Magazine - Industry Trends, News & Menu Development Ideas | FoodService Director

Non-commercial foodservice industry trends, news, research, menu development ideas and more.

www.food-management.com

 

[Cusefan0307]

Theres a gazillion chains a stones throw away on Erie Boulevard. And you can eat downtown and take the bus up on game days. My wife and I did that from Shaughnessy's for the UNC bball game.

 

[OttoMets]

I've always thought that the biggest "problem" with Marshall St is the fact that while Syracuse is a college town, it's bigger than that and things are a little bit more spread out. You look at places like Happy Valley or Ann Arbor and the university and it's surroundings are the center of everything, so all of the bars/restaurants are mostly clustered together. They are regularly frequented by locals and students alike.

In Syracuse, you have Marshall St - which is basically exclusively used only by students or gameday crowds - and then Armory Square, Hanover Square and Tipp Hill as the other nightlife hotspots. It's tough for Marshall Street bar/restaurant owners (or prospective owners) to cater to a non-college student crowd when it's an absolute ghost town there when school isn't in session. That's why you end up with almost exclusively dive bars with minimal investment in them.

The expansion of "student slums" throughout the SEUNA area has had a bad effect on the Crouse/Marshall business district for the reason you note.

I know neighbors who inexplicably love Panda West but don't go during the school year because they don't want to walk 30 minutes each way (kinda understandable, though I don't relate) and parking's a hassle (major eye roll). When 75% of Livingston and Sumner and Ackerman and Stratford were families 15 years ago, that type of business could make a better year-round go of it. Now that's an outlier and we've got a lot more of that quick-service 10-month-a-year establishment over there and the place is a ghost town in the summer. Negative feedback loop - they won't stay open because nobody's around, and nobody goes as a destination because it's no longer the sort of place where you can stroll around and pick where you want to eat.

 

[OttoMets]

FoodService Director Magazine - Industry Trends, News & Menu Development Ideas | FoodService Director

Non-commercial foodservice industry trends, news, research, menu development ideas and more.

www.food-management.com

Did not know anything about this...thanks ottomets

Barely in business before they got bought out.

FoodService Director Magazine - Industry Trends, News & Menu Development Ideas | FoodService Director

Non-commercial foodservice industry trends, news, research, menu development ideas and more.

www.food-management.com

It's a really good idea in some ways, but I hate what they've done to restaurant scene. And their drivers are a menace.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The expansion of "student slums" throughout the SEUNA area has had a bad effect on the Crouse/Marshall business district for the reason you note.

I know neighbors who inexplicably love Panda West but don't go during the school year because they don't want to walk 30 minutes each way (kinda understandable, though I don't relate) and parking's a hassle (major eye roll). When 75% of Livingston and Sumner and Ackerman and Stratford were families 15 years ago, that type of business could make a better year-round go of it. Now that's an outlier and we've got a lot more of that quick-service 10-month-a-year establishment over there and the place is a ghost town in the summer. Negative feedback loop - they won't stay open because nobody's around, and nobody goes as a destination because it's no longer the sort of place where you can stroll around and pick where you want to eat.

Must have been longer than 15 years ago. No? I lived on Livingston in 2005-06 and it was already changing over. Sumner and Ackerman were pretty slummy then. I always assumed east of Westcott and south of Broad was where families lived. I think it was either right before or right after I graduated in 2007 SEUNA was trying to pass a law where no more than 3 unrelated people could live in the same residence, but I don't think they were successful. I lived in that area until the year after I graduated in 2008.

 

[OttoMets]

Must have been longer than 15 years ago. No? I lived on Livingston in 2005-06 and it was already changing over. Sumner and Ackerman were pretty slummy then. I always assumed east of Westcott and south of Broad was where families lived. I think it was either right before or right after I graduated in 2007 SEUNA was trying to pass a law where no more than 3 unrelated people could live in the same residence, but I don't think they were successful. I lived in that area until the year after I graduated in 2008.

I could be a little off on the rough dates. The 700 block of Livingston's been gone for generations (it's mostly two-families anyway), though much of the adjacent blocks of Clarendon was decent into this century. But the 800 block was OK through about 2012, when one of the local investors was able to get around families looking to sell to other families by setting up straw purchases. Sumner is 50/50 now in the 700 block, but there are a couple houses that tipped in recent years; 800 block is the same situation as the 800 block of Livingston. Ackerman started off a little worse (it has more two-families) and has declined since then.

All the neighborhood groups support the 3-unrelated-people definition, and I think you could get some City officials to acknowledge that it represents best practices (I think Syracuse is the largest city in the state to stick by its unusual "family" definition of 5 unrelated people), but it's been all but impossible to get that law through the council. Too many people taking relatively small campaign contributions from area landlords, apparently. This has been an underreported abnormality, though it might not make a huge difference in the current environment (Codes Enforcement is notoriously toothless).

 

[kirbivore]

Back in late 79 = 81 DJed at Sutters was a wild time crazy crazy alot of SU athletes hung out there

 

[cuse10]

Theres a gazillion chains a stones throw away on Erie Boulevard. And you can eat downtown and take the bus up on game days. My wife and I did that from Shaughnessy's for the UNC bball game.

Re: Erie. You have to drive out there. It's inaccessible by public transport.

On the subject of food, the University killing Kimmel with healthy food options was a terrible decision. It's not like Syracuse is New York City where public transportation is readily available. Grabbing a burger (something Marshall could really use) was clutch at night especially if you didn't have a car.

I'm curious to see what Chuck's 3.0 looks like. It being in a residential building would tick me off as someone renting a space. I don't think I have the patience to deal with the crowds, but if I was on campus, I would grab lunch if the food was decent.

 

[shandeezy7]

Re: Erie. You have to drive out there. It's inaccessible by public transport.

On the subject of food, the University killing Kimmel with healthy food options was a terrible decision. It's not like Syracuse is New York City where public transportation is readily available. Grabbing a burger (something Marshall could really use) was clutch at night especially if you didn't have a car.

I'm curious to see what Chuck's 3.0 looks like. It being in a residential building would tick me off as someone renting a space. I don't think I have the patience to deal with the crowds, but if I was on campus, I would grab lunch if the food was decent.

That's not entirely true about it being inaccessible via public transport. It's accessible by bus, but you'd have to transfer downtown, which is not ideal nor convenient, so I get the point.