Future Campus Framework Discussion

[shandeezy7]

What's more surprising to me is that this is a 400 level course and their writing ability is that poor. I can understand that Sports Management isn't a writing intensive major like mine was (History), but this is high school level at best. I've had moments where I needed to get to 20 pages for a paper, but if you trimmed the fat, the overall argument wouldn't be compromised despite decreasing the page length. There's literally nothing of substance throughout most of their proposal.

And yet people trash Liberal Arts schools, whose mission it is to produce well-rounded graduates who can write and communicate. Specialize too much, and worthless drivel becomes the norm.

 

[OttoMets]

What's more surprising to me is that this is a 400 level course and their writing ability is that poor. I can understand that Sports Management isn't a writing intensive major like mine was (History), but this is high school level at best. I've had moments where I needed to get to 20 pages for a paper, but if you trimmed the fat, the overall argument wouldn't be compromised despite decreasing the page length. There's literally nothing of substance throughout most of their proposal.

Hate to be that guy who's nitpicking a college kid's work, but I agree. That's 8th-grade level substance with mediocre writing skills to boot. The whole thing is fluff filled out with citations. Bad look for SU if that's representative of 400-level coursework. I'd have gotten a paper returned to me with no grade if I did that as an undergrad (I should know...it happened once).

 

[AZOrange]

What's more surprising to me is that this is a 400 level course and their writing ability is that poor. I can understand that Sports Management isn't a writing intensive major like mine was (History), but this is high school level at best. I've had moments where I needed to get to 20 pages for a paper, but if you trimmed the fat, the overall argument wouldn't be compromised despite decreasing the page length. There's literally nothing of substance throughout most of their proposal.

Yeah it's "SU should build a new arena because they should."

 

[AZOrange]

I know what you're saying but $10 million from donors and $10 million from the ACC TV deal for example... is different.

How so? It's all capital to the University.

 

[bnoro]

What's more surprising to me is that this is a 400 level course and their writing ability is that poor. I can understand that Sports Management isn't a writing intensive major like mine was (History), but this is high school level at best. I've had moments where I needed to get to 20 pages for a paper, but if you trimmed the fat, the overall argument wouldn't be compromised despite decreasing the page length. There's literally nothing of substance throughout most of their proposal.

Yeah I'm sure you gave 100% effort on every project you completed in college. Doubt they expected it to be analysed on a message board.

 

[UnknownOrange]

How so? It's all capital to the University.

I just don't think donations are reliable is all. It takes time to reach certain numbers obviously

 

[cuse10]

Yeah I'm sure you gave 100% effort on every project you completed in college. Doubt they expected it to be analysed on a message board.

So you wrote the paper? Sucks to see that.

400 level means that this is THE class that you need to complete the major. If you're going to half ass a project, this is the course that you don't do it in. The Falk School shouldn't churn out graduates who can't effectively communicate a proposal.

 

[Cuse'91]

So you wrote the paper? Sucks to see that.

400 level means that this is THE class that you need to complete the major. If you're going to half ass a project, this is the course that you don't do it in. The Falk School shouldn't churn out graduates who can't effectively communicate a proposal.

61st...

 

[AZOrange]

I just don't think donations are reliable is all. It takes time to reach certain numbers obviously

Ok that's fine. But you're running SU which is first and foremost an educational center. You are going to take 10% of your endowment and put it at risk into the Dome and hope you get the donations? Or would you do the smart thing and raise the money first?

 

[orange79]

Ok that's fine. But you're running SU which is first and foremost an educational center. You are going to take 10% of your endowment and put it at risk into the Dome and hope you get the donations? Or would you do the smart thing and raise the money first?

Thank you. The endowment will never, EVER be touched for a Dome reno.

 

[orangecuse]

Ok that's fine. But you're running SU which is first and foremost an educational center. You are going to take 10% of your endowment and put it at risk into the Dome and hope you get the donations? Or would you do the smart thing and raise the money first?

True. Purely a hypothetical here, but I'd would be curious to see what percentage of SU's enrollment would go away/disappear if not for the athletic department's significance to the university and its overall stature. SU isn't Ivy League (yet the cost of going there is comparable), not even Top 50 for that matter. SU reaps significant benefit in its enrollment (ensuing endowment) because of its sports identity.

 

[Cusefan0307]

True. Purely a hypothetical here, but I'd would curious to see what percentage of SU's enrollment would go away/disappear if not for the athletic department's significance to the university and its overall stature. SU isn't Ivy League (yet the cost of going there is comparable), not even Top 50 for that matter. SU reaps significant benefit in its enrollment (ensuing endowment) because of its sports identity.

It used to be top 50 not that long ago...

 

[OrangeXtreme]

True. Purely a hypothetical here, but I'd would curious to see what percentage of SU's enrollment would go away/disappear if not for the athletic department's significance to the university and its overall stature. SU isn't Ivy League (yet the cost of going there is comparable), not even Top 50 for that matter. SU reaps significant benefit in its enrollment (ensuing endowment) because of its sports identity.

What % of the current student population goes to football games now?

If SU dropped football, 95% of the students wouldn't even notice.

 

[orangecuse]

What % of the current student population goes to football games now?

If SU dropped football, 95% of the students wouldn't even notice.

Sure they would, indirectly. SU would no longer be in the ACC, and 95% of the students can be pumped again for those Providence, Depaul, Seton Hall, etc. affairs.

 

[orangeinjersey]

It used to be top 50 not that long ago...

When i applied in fall of 98 SU was ranked 46 or 47, it was top 50 at the time.

 

[reedny]

Lots of assumptions in the paper but one relatively minor one that does not make sense. If they build a new stadium and the Carrier Dome is leveled as I would expect it would be, there is no need for a "buyout" of the name. SU is off the hook.

Not touching this.

 

[NJCuse97]

What's more surprising to me is that this is a 400 level course and their writing ability is that poor. I can understand that Sports Management isn't a writing intensive major like mine was (History), but this is high school level at best. I've had moments where I needed to get to 20 pages for a paper, but if you trimmed the fat, the overall argument wouldn't be compromised despite decreasing the page length. There's literally nothing of substance throughout most of their proposal.

And yet we wonder why we're ranked 61 or need to funnel ACC revenue into the general fund for academic use.

 

[orangecuse]

When i applied in fall of 98 SU was ranked 46 or 47, it was top 50 at the time.

About 20 years ago...or around the same time SU was relevant in football. There's the solution! Get back to relevancy on the gridiron, and get back to Top 50 status academically.

 

[NJCuse97]

So I have recently done a bunch of project work at Yale, and just to show the disparity and creative thinking when it comes to fund raising:
The project I just completed is in the basement of a building. It was for the college of engineering, yet the main donor is a finance guy. The president of the university was convinced of a need by the dean, and together the convinced the donor of that need in order to get $10 million for a project in the basement. Once well under way, (almost complete really) they sold naming for each room. The going rate I believe was $1 million for the "front" room and $750,000 for any of the others. I know they sold the front room.
They also spoke of a family (father and two sons) who have set up a trust with the university. This trust is maintained at about $70 million and whenever the school needs to take a chunk of $10 million or less, they ask the family and are granted funds from the trust.
On their campus is "Yale Ivy". They are planting a garden of this stuff which grows like a weed potentially above this basement project. During tours, applicants are taken by this garden and told they can buy a sprig of Yale Ivy for luck with their application process. I believe I was told these "donations" were recorded and included with the application. Wink, wink. Think of the pressure to buy some ivy. A friend of mine, who grew up in affluent Wyckoff NJ was offered grant money as an underprivileged student while attending Yale Law. It's a different level, and you'd better believe Yale sees it as their money.
Giving to Yale | Yale Office of Development
Greenberg Engineering Teaching Concourse Creating
Edit: another example article of the donor level at high level learning institutions $150 Million Gift by Stephen A. Schwarzman to Establish First-of-its-Kind Campus Center at Yale University

 

[AZOrange]

True. Purely a hypothetical here, but I'd would be curious to see what percentage of SU's enrollment would go away/disappear if not for the athletic department's significance to the university and its overall stature. SU isn't Ivy League (yet the cost of going there is comparable), not even Top 50 for that matter. SU reaps significant benefit in its enrollment (ensuing endowment) because of its sports identity.

I'd say zero percent. Even though SU is not top 50 they have a waiting list of applicants. If one non athlete decided not to got to SU because of lack of football stature (unlikely) someone else would.

 

[bnoro]

So you wrote the paper? Sucks to see that.

400 level means that this is THE class that you need to complete the major. If you're going to half ass a project, this is the course that you don't do it in. The Falk School shouldn't churn out graduates who can't effectively communicate a proposal.

Nope, was in the SPM program 5 years ago. I've written case studies though. Some I tried hard on and did a good job, and others I was in a class I had no interest in and just did what I needed to do to get a good grade.

 

[OttoMets]

Nope, was in the SPM program 5 years ago. I've written case studies though. Some I tried hard on and did a good job, and others I was in a class I had no interest in and just did what I needed to do to get a good grade.

That's his point, that paper can't be what's required to get a good grade. Not at a decent university. Not in any rigorous course of study. Not with a professor who's taking instruction seriously. I've been on a number of sides of writing at several levels at a few schools and that's just not college-level work. Not in a 100-level peace studies class and not in a thesis-level course. I won't presume to guess at the students' effort, but the work product is surprisingly bad.

 

[CuseOnly]

That's how athletic facility costs work at every school, 99% of the time. All those great facilities Oregon has isn't paid for by the school. The bigger the donors the better the bling.

I wasn't talking about endowment or anything of that nature.

My point is that SU, and it's been beaten like a dead horse, does not have a Phil Knight walking through the door anytime soon and waiting for someone like him is clearly folly.

Hoping for one to arrive isn't helping the program...and hope isn't a strategy.

They need to do something different other than wait. What works for others isn't working here.

 

[reedny]

That's his point, that paper can't be what's required to get a good grade. Not at a decent university. Not in any rigorous course of study. Not with a professor who's taking instruction seriously. I've been on a number of sides of writing at several levels at a few schools and that's just not college-level work. Not in a 100-level peace studies class and not in a thesis-level course. I won't presume to guess at the students' effort, but the work product is surprisingly bad.

Should have done a few more drafts instead of sitting on the roof drinking Genny Cream.

 

[bnoro]

That's his point, that paper can't be what's required to get a good grade. Not at a decent university. Not in any rigorous course of study. Not with a professor who's taking instruction seriously. I've been on a number of sides of writing at several levels at a few schools and that's just not college-level work. Not in a 100-level peace studies class and not in a thesis-level course. I won't presume to guess at the students' effort, but the work product is surprisingly bad.

They probably didn't get a good grade then...