Future Campus Framework Discussion

[rrlbees]

I wasn't talking about endowment or anything of that nature.

My point is that SU, and it's been beaten like a dead horse, does not have a Phil Knight walking through the door anytime soon and waiting for someone like him is clearly folly.

Hoping for one to arrive isn't helping the program...and hope isn't a strategy.

They need to do something different other than wait. What works for others isn't working here.

I wasn't talking about endowments either. I was talking reality.

 

[CuseOnly]

I wasn't talking about endowments either. I was talking reality.

Reality is that what they are doing isn't working, that's the reality.

 

[CuseOnly]

Instead of posting that article again you should go to the actual website for Equity in Athletics and look at a breakdown of revenue. When I go back and look at 2015 it doesn't take into account actual salaries of coaching staffs. All those salaries listed are only averages as that info isn't public info.
Equity in Athletics

Equity in Athletics

EADA Site where you can compare up to 4 schools in the ACC, very interesting...

SU's athletic budget is only $10 mil behind Clemson's in 2015 and we spent roughly $600K less than them in recruiting. Spent spent more on women's aid to athletes than men's...

 

[CuseLegacy]

Equity in Athletics

EADA Site where you can compare up to 4 schools in the ACC, very interesting...

SU's athletic budget is only $10 mil behind Clemson's in 2015 and we spent roughly $600K less than them in recruiting. Spent spent more on women's aid to athletes than men's...

Probably because SU has womens' Lacrosse, Field Hockey, Ice Hockey and Softball and Clemson doesn't...they have Dive and Golf.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Reality is that what they are doing isn't working, that's the reality.

And how do you know it isn't? Tell me how much money has been donated for the project to date? Point being it may not be happening at the speed that you want but that doesn't mean things aren't moving along.

 

[xc84]

And how do you know it isn't? Tell me how much money has been donated for the project to date? Point being it may not be happening at the speed that you want but that doesn't mean things aren't moving along.

You must have not read about the rumors.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Equity in Athletics

EADA Site where you can compare up to 4 schools in the ACC, very interesting...

SU's athletic budget is only $10 mil behind Clemson's in 2015 and we spent roughly $600K less than them in recruiting. Spent spent more on women's aid to athletes than men's...

It's all about donations donations donations and Syracuse has lousy alumni support. Simple as that. Endowments can't be used for athletics, not what they are designed for. Althletic budget is for the daily operations of the athletic department. Comparing Clemson to Cuse isn't a good comparison, I would probably use BC, wake forest, Vanderbilt, northwestern, Purdue as better Comps. Oh did I mention it's about donations.

 

[xc84]

It's all about donations donations donations and Syracuse has lousy alumni support. Simple as that. Endowments can't be used for athletics, not what they are designed for. Althletic budget is for the daily operations of the athletic department. Comparing Clemson to Cuse isn't a good comparison, I would probably use BC, wake forest, Vanderbilt, northwestern, Purdue as better Comps. Oh did I mention it's about donations.

I agree with the point. However, an endowment to Athletics could be used for Athletics (coach salary, team program, etc.) The problem is, there are not enough of them targeted toward sports at SU. It's the donor who does the designation.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I agree with the point. However, an endowment to Athletics could be used for Athletics (coach salary, team program, etc.) The problem is, there are not enough of them targeted toward sports at SU. It's the donor who does the designation.

This is true, if the funds are allocated and designated for athletics... I just don't think it's ever been a priority for the university therefore they have never created a true campaign. They should probably get on that.

 

[cuse10]

It's all about donations donations donations and Syracuse has lousy alumni support. Simple as that. Endowments can't be used for athletics, not what they are designed for. Althletic budget is for the daily operations of the athletic department. Comparing Clemson to Cuse isn't a good comparison, I would probably use BC, wake forest, Vanderbilt, northwestern, Purdue as better Comps. Oh did I mention it's about donations.

Syracuse is a small, private school that doesn't provide much of a local identity and is an institution that is also divisive in the community and some alumni if you ask them. Clemson is a public school that somehow manages to foster stronger ties despite many of the people who support the program having no true affiliation to the university. As a result, we see more financial support for the program from alumni and non-alumni.

 

[CuseLegacy]

It's all about donations donations donations and Syracuse has lousy alumni support. Simple as that. Endowments can't be used for athletics, not what they are designed for. Althletic budget is for the daily operations of the athletic department. Comparing Clemson to Cuse isn't a good comparison, I would probably use BC, wake forest, Vanderbilt, northwestern, Purdue as better Comps. Oh did I mention it's about donations.

Part of the alumni problem, imo, is look at where you and I live and then look at where the alumni of the Carolina schools in the ACC live. As I am surrounded by them, from north and south Carolina, they don't stray far from home.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Reality is that what they are doing isn't working, that's the reality.

Perceived reality is an individual's subjective experience of reality, in comparison to objective, exterior reality. Patient-centered, humanistic-existential, and corresponding phenomenological theories postulate that people act in alignment with understood, instead of objective, reality.

 

[xc84]

Syracuse is a small, private school that doesn't provide much of a local identity and is an institution that is also divisive in the community and some alumni if you ask them. Clemson is a public school that somehow manages to foster stronger ties despite many of the people who support the program having no true affiliation to the university. As a result, we see more financial support for the program from alumni and non-alumni.

Clemson is a state school. Forget about SUNY because SUNY started as D3. If you live in SC, you have a built in affiliation with "your" school because it is a state school or at least one of the state schools...whether you went there or not. That exists with Syracuse too...in CNY. However, if I grow up in Albany, I don't have that built-in affiliation with SU. The larger established football state schools have that advantage.

 

[orangecuse]

Clemson is a state school. Forget about SUNY because SUNY started as D3. If you live in SC, you have a built in affiliation with "your" school because it is a state school or at least one of the state schools...whether you went there or not. That exists with Syracuse too...in CNY. However, if I grow up in Albany, I don't have that built-in affiliation with SU. The larger established football state schools have that advantage.

Dead on. Years ago...when I was in school (SUNY Buffalo) I remember going to a couple of 'Cuse games at the old Buffalo Auditorium. SU played Canisius and SU & JB were repeatedly booed, you would've thought SU was G'town. It was unreal. Once you get west of Rochester, SU is foreign for the most part. Utica/Rome is SU friendly, but as you say, once you hit the Albany area it generally isn't. The North Country has their fair share of fans that bleed Orange, but the population is relatively sparse as are the disposable incomes. It's a unique dilemma when considering SU is the only D1 school playing football.

Here in the Carolina's, the vast majority of folks are either NCST or UNC fans. SC, it's either USC or Clemson and it does have a ton to do with that built-in affiliation you mention.

 

[HtownOrange]

Another issue with Syracuse not having the depth of fandom that a Clemson or other State school would have is that football players from NY are not in high demand, Syracuse does not recruit many NY kids in comparison to the State schools; therefore, the hometown football hero is not followed on at Syracuse as happens so often in southern states, PA, OH, MI, etc. cultivating fandom.

The good thing about Syracuse fans is that they are everywhere, just not in the proportions that we would like on game day. (So says the SU fan that lives 1700 miles away and rarely sees a home game)

 

[CuseOnly]

Part of the alumni problem, imo, is look at where you and I live and then look at where the alumni of the Carolina schools in the ACC live. As I am surrounded by them, from north and south Carolina, they don't stray far from home.

So alums can't donate if they are far away...

 

[orange79]

So alums can't donate if they are far away...

Yes. That's exactly what she said. Nailed it.

 

[CuseOnly]

Perceived reality is an individual's subjective experience of reality, in comparison to objective, exterior reality. Patient-centered, humanistic-existential, and corresponding phenomenological theories postulate that people act in alignment with understood, instead of objective, reality.

My reality isn't necessarily only focused on just the Dome renovation. It's the entirety of the AD and spending priorities and also how the BOT perceives athletics in general.

It depends at what metric you are looking to determine the success. If being a good athletic program is being profitable, then bravo, clap clap. That will be short lived as the fanbase erodes faster and faster because they are fed up with how they are treated and the lack of success on the field.

I am looking at the only metric that counts, wins on the field. In this industry, that is the only metric that matters. In this industry, you don't win unless you spend, period.

 

[CuseLegacy]

My reality isn't necessarily only focused on just the Dome renovation. It's the entirety of the AD and spending priorities and also how the BOT perceives athletics in general.

It depends at what metric you are looking to determine the success. If being a good athletic program is being profitable, then bravo, clap clap. That will be short lived as the fanbase erodes faster and faster because they are fed up with how they are treated and the lack of success on the field.

I am looking at the only metric that counts, wins on the field. In this industry, that is the only metric that matters. In this industry, you don't win unless you spend, period.

If the BOT didn't believe in developing athletic programs at SU they never would have joined the ACC. If they didn't believe in athletics there wouldn't be the variety of sports being supported and developed to be competitive in the conference. When a program is deemed not to be cost effective any longer it is "retired"...as was swim at both SU and Clemson.

And again just because you don't know, your reality, how monies are being spent on upgrades doesn't mean it isn't happening. I watched a volleyball game last night, one of those womens' sports on which you think the school spends too much money. It was a good production. You could see the direction that the university is going to produce content for the ACC Network, which will produce more money for the university. If you go to the AD website you can now see a Athletics Production/ACC Network department listed. Money is being spent and invested in SU athletics.

 

[Newhouser]

If the BOT didn't believe in developing athletic programs at SU they never would have joined the ACC. If they didn't believe in athletics there wouldn't be the variety of sports being supported and developed to be competitive in the conference. When a program is deemed not to be cost effective any longer it is "retired"...as was swim at both SU and Clemson.

And again just because you don't know, your reality, how monies are being spent on upgrades doesn't mean it isn't happening. I watched a volleyball game last night, one of those womens' sports on which you think the school spends too much money. It was a good production. You could see the direction that the university is going to produce content for the ACC Network, which will produce more money for the university. If you go to the AD website you can now see a Athletics Production/ACC Network department listed. Money is being spent and invested in SU athletics.

Good post but my concern or question involves how committed the Board is to actually competing in the ACC in the sport that brings in the money. Clearly they say the right things - or else the ACC would not have offered - but at this point - for me anyway - the jury is still out on just how committed the school is in "developing athletic programs".

 

[CuseLegacy]

Good post but my concern or question involves how committed the Board is to actually competing in the ACC in the sport that brings in the money. Clearly they say the right things - or else the ACC would not have offered - but at this point - for me anyway - the jury is still out on just how committed the school is in "developing athletic programs".

If they weren't committed I don't think the IPF would have ever been built, Babers wouldn't be flying on a private jet or have been allowed to hire more support staff, like Dave Boller. There wouldn't be the installation of fiber optic cable across campus, most likely for ACC Network. And even though some are complaining about them they wouldn't have spent the money for new Dome locker rooms for the players and coaches. Improvements are being made. A Dome renovation isn't going to happen until the funds are raised.

 

[Newhouser]

If they weren't committed I don't think the IPF would have ever been built, Babers wouldn't be flying on a private jet or have been allowed to hire more support staff, like Dave Boller. There wouldn't be the installation of fiber optic cable across campus, most likely for ACC Network. And even though some are complaining about them they wouldn't have spent the money for new Dome locker rooms for the players and coaches. Improvements are being made. A Dome renovation isn't going to happen until the funds are raised.

True on all counts - though again some of that now has us in the middle of the pack and I would bet was mandated by the suits of the ACC. Still I see your point, and appreciate what has been done.

 

[CuseLegacy]

The only required improvements would be for the ACC Network. And there SU is lucky to have Newhouse and already built studios available. We are probably ahead of others in the conference in that respect.

 

[SoBristol]

Good post but my concern or question involves how committed the Board is to actually competing in the ACC in the sport that brings in the money. Clearly they say the right things - or else the ACC would not have offered - but at this point - for me anyway - the jury is still out on just how committed the school is in "developing athletic programs".

There is another dimension to this. The Board reflects (to some extent) the level of interest/commitment to football of the Central NY community, the SU alums, and the SU donor base. How is attendance at games, how is the alum & other donor support for SU football? There has been a good level of Board support in hiring Dino Babers and the other upgrades. If there was a high level of attendance, and more financial support from the community & alums, it would be a strong signal to the Board. Is that happening?

 

[FrancoPizza]

My goodness, can we get back to discussing the actual concepts and timelines for the renovation? All this back and forth about who should be paying for this is... I zoned out.