Future Campus Framework Presentation...

[sutomcat]

If they were going to do that, better off adding pay by the game club seating.

If you can't sell the private boxes, yes, this is a good alternative. I know there has been a waiting line for private boxes at the Dome for years. There should be a market for at least some boxes from day one.

 

[rrlbees]

If you can't sell the private boxes, yes, this is a good alternative. I know there has been a waiting line for private boxes at the Dome for years. There should be a market for at least some boxes from day one.

For the boxes on the basketball end. For football you can buy a box for a single game. They are boxes that don't work for basketball and are at the other end of the football field.

 

[javadoc]

FBS schools with stadiums under 50,000:

Northwestern 47,129
Utah 45,807
Oregon St 45,674
Baylor 45,140
TCU 45,000
BC 44,500
Vandy 40,350
Duke 33,941
Washington St 32,740
Wake 31.500

7 of 10 are private schools.

 

[Consigliere]

FBS schools with stadiums under 50,000:

Northwestern 47,129
Utah 45,807
Oregon St 45,674
Baylor 45,140
TCU 45,000
BC 44,500
Vandy 40,350
Duke 33,941
Washington St 32,740
Wake 31.500

Thinking this is limited to P5 FBS schools?

 

[sutomcat]

Unfortunately if the new roof has the same footprint - just higher in elevation - I don't see how they can do any of the things you are suggesting. Sadly your ideas are all too practical and forward-thinking... which means they won't happen unless they have an extra $100M windfall.

If they converted the 200 level to box seats they would make a killing for basketball. If they lowered the court below grade they could recoup the seats that would otherwise be lost. The 100 would be the new 200, etc.

If they use the existing roof ring, which will hold down costs but greatly hamstring future flexibility, they can still add considerable capacity by adding a 400 section above the 300 section, as I described above. It couldn't be nearly as big as the 300 section, but it could go all the way around the perimeter of the building and I think could add about 10K seats to the facility.

I think it is a given that the level of the field will be lowered relative to the existing seats in the lower level, as this will allow them to more effectively utilize the space between lower level stands and the basketball court. That will help address the seats lost going from rows to individual seats.

Hope they don't convert the 200 level seats to private boxes. That would displace thousands of loyal season ticket holders and fundamentally change the dynamics of the arena. I am sure they have to add private boxes to help pay for the renovation. Just add them at the top of the 200 section, not down at the 200 level. You will get a lot more of them and they will be really good for football.

 

[Millhouse]

If they use the existing roof ring, which will hold down costs but greatly hamstring future flexibility, they can still add considerable capacity by adding a 400 section above the 300 section, as I described above. It couldn't be nearly as big as the 300 section, but it could go all the way around the perimeter of the building and I think could add about 10K seats to the facility.

I think it is a given that the level of the field will be lowered relative to the existing seats in the lower level, as this will allow them to more effectively utilize the space between lower level stands and the basketball court. That will help address the seats lost going from rows to individual seats.

Hope they don't convert the 200 level seats to private boxes. That would displace thousands of loyal season ticket holders and fundamentally change the dynamics of the arena. I am sure they have to add private boxes to help pay for the renovation. Just add them at the top of the 200 section, not down at the 200 level. You will get a lot more of them and they will be really good for football.

i don't see the value in spending significant money to leave room for expansion. it just doesn't seem like a good bet to me. syracuse is small and there are only so many sporting events people can attend year round.

 

[sutomcat]

For the boxes on the basketball end. For football you can buy a box for a single game. They are boxes that don't work for basketball and are at the other end of the football field.

That must have changed recently because I was told by at least 2 people who wanted to buy a private box that they were told none were available and that there was a waiting list they could be put on. This goes back 4 or 5 years. I assume all the bad football seasons have taken their toll?

 

[rrlbees]

That must have changed recently because I was told by at least 2 people who wanted to buy a private box that they were told none were available and that there was a waiting list they could be put on. This goes back 4 or 5 years. I assume all the bad football seasons have taken their toll?

must be. my cousin bought one last year for just the pitt game and I sat there. think it was like 5k for the single game.

 

[FrancoPizza]

If they use the existing roof ring, which will hold down costs but greatly hamstring future flexibility, they can still add considerable capacity by adding a 400 section above the 300 section, as I described above. It couldn't be nearly as big as the 300 section, but it could go all the way around the perimeter of the building and I think could add about 10K seats to the facility.

Without setting it back, the 400 level would create a significant overhang on top of the 300s, even if it was just for a few rows. Not to mention there would definitely need to be a new concourse added to serve both the upper 300s and the 400. I don't know what the cost tradeoff is for setting the new roof ring back even 30-40', but I just hope they remember how the original Dome was quite hamstrung by the decision to build within the confines of Archbold. Everything inside the dome was tight as a result.

I think it is a given that the level of the field will be lowered relative to the existing seats in the lower level, as this will allow them to more effectively utilize the space between lower level stands and the basketball court. That will help address the seats lost going from rows to individual seats.

I hope so, but a "given" because you heard this from good sources... or it's such a no-brainer that surely they will do it? Big difference.

Hope they don't convert the 200 level seats to private boxes. That would displace thousands of loyal season ticket holders and fundamentally change the dynamics of the arena. I am sure they have to add private boxes to help pay for the renovation. Just add them at the top of the 200 section, not down at the 200 level. You will get a lot more of them and they will be really good for football.

Even if they don't add private boxes, new seatbacks in the 100s will bump quite a few unlucky STHs off the end of their rows. Granted, new seating below grade would provide an attractive alternative for those who are displaced.

 

[TexanMark]

must be. my cousin bought one last year for just the pitt game and I sat there. think it was like 5k for the single game.

From Rochester?

 

[oldpinepoint]

must be. my cousin bought one last year for just the pitt game and I sat there. think it was like 5k for the single game.

there is a waiting list for both basketball and football suites. If you wanted a football only suite it was available.

 

[rrlbees]

there is a waiting list for both basketball and football suites. I had heard there was a waiting list for those. If you wanted a football only suite it was available.

yep, makes sense.

 

[rrlbees]

From Rochester?

yes sir. she has nothing good to say about you.

 

[TexanMark]

yes sir. she has nothing good to say about you.

Obviously I've BS'd her pretty good. You know me too well.

 

[sutomcat]

Without setting it back, the 400 level would create a significant overhang on top of the 300s, even if it was just for a few rows. Not to mention there would definitely need to be a new concourse added to serve both the upper 300s and the 400. I don't know what the cost tradeoff is for setting the new roof ring back even 30-40', but I just hope they remember how the original Dome was quite hamstrung by the decision to build within the confines of Archbold. Everything inside the dome was tight as a result.

I agree it would be tremendous if they decided to make the roof a bit larger. Even if they didn't, I don't see it as a deal breaker. The new exterior walls are going to have to be a lot taller than the existing ones if they go with the plan to build the new roof to fit over the existing one. If they are going to put private boxes up there, they are going to need a concourse to get to them, or the value will be dramatically lessened. The concourse could be built outside the perimeter of the roof but allow access to the 400 level though the new wall that extends up from the roof ring.

I hope so, but a "given" because you heard this from good sources... or it's such a no-brainer that surely they will do it? Big difference.

Just relying on logic. Others have already said the idea of lowering the field to help address the problems setting up seats between the permanent seating and the basketball court has been discussed and is on the table.

Even if they don't add private boxes, new seatbacks in the 100s will bump quite a few unlucky STHs off the end of their rows. Granted, new seating below grade would provide an attractive alternative for those who are displaced.

Agreed. Given how much extra money could be made with the many extra premium seats that could be added, I think the additional seats would at least offset the ones lost going to individual seats. This is one of the suggested improvements that would pay for itself very quickly. I can't imagine them not doing it.

 

[HoustonCuse]

During snow storms downtown skies often carry a hazy yellow-to-pink aura. The effect is created by all the ice crystals reflecting and refracting city lights. This is apparent if you live in the suburbs and can look out towards the downtown horizon. With the new translucent roof, I thought this might present an interesting backdrop for some of the basketball games.

Sort of like the great pee trough in the sky?

 

[FrancoPizza]

Getting back on topic, I'm surprised nobody has expressed any reservations about possible darkness covering half the stadium with the new roof. If they emulate the Vikings roof concept, one half of the stadium would be bathed in natural light, and the other half would need lanterns. It's not something I would want to get used to. Dark shadows looks awful on TV and I'm sure it's not much easier on the eyes in person. The current bubble, though antiquated, did a nice job of allowing some natural light and minimizing this problem.

Can they just do ETFE over the entire roof and darken or tint the southern exposure as needed? It seems like ETFE can do pretty much anything. Just don't think a mass of steel and concrete covering one half of the stadium is going to be play well.

 

[ssmorol]

Getting back on topic, I'm surprised nobody has expressed any reservations about possible darkness covering half the stadium with the new roof. If they emulate the Vikings roof concept, one half of the stadium would be bathed in natural light, and the other half would need lanterns. It's not something I would want to get used to. Dark shadows looks awful on TV and I'm sure it's not much easier on the eyes in person. The current bubble, though antiquated, did a nice job of allowing some natural light and minimizing this problem.

Can they just do ETFE over the entire roof and darken or tint the southern exposure as needed? It seems like ETFE can do pretty much anything. Just don't think a mass of steel and concrete covering one half of the stadium is going to be play well.

There will still be LED lighting inside!! This will just let in some natural light to enhance it so it doesn't look so cavernous!
And no offense, but Populous has done hundreds of stadium designs...let's leave it to the experts.

 

[NJCuse97]

Getting back on topic, I'm surprised nobody has expressed any reservations about possible darkness covering half the stadium with the new roof. If they emulate the Vikings roof concept, one half of the stadium would be bathed in natural light, and the other half would need lanterns. It's not something I would want to get used to. Dark shadows looks awful on TV and I'm sure it's not much easier on the eyes in person. The current bubble, though antiquated, did a nice job of allowing some natural light and minimizing this problem.

Can they just do ETFE over the entire roof and darken or tint the southern exposure as needed? It seems like ETFE can do pretty much anything. Just don't think a mass of steel and concrete covering one half of the stadium is going to be play well.

If it's north light coming in, any shadowing would be greatly reduced. This is why museums art studios, and libraries want north light. Less harsh, less shadows, less heat. I need to get a better understanding of ETFE, but it seems possible to do the whole thing. I just question if that's wanted or needed. It defeats the idea if you're going to clog it up with rigging, lighting, and signage (banners and scoreboards). The current roof filters light through 3 layers of canvas. ETFE can do that too, but then why use it if not using it to its greatest advantage?

 

[sutomcat]

If it's north light coming in, any shadowing would be greatly reduced. This is why museums art studios, and libraries want north light. Less harsh, less shadows, less heat. I need to get a better understanding of ETFE, but it seems possible to do the whole thing. I just question if that's wanted or needed. It defeats the idea if you're going to clog it up with rigging, lighting, and signage (banners and scoreboards). The current roof filters light through 3 layers of canvas. ETFE can do that too, but then why use it if not using it to its greatest advantage?

With the northern side open to light, fans in the 300 level on the south side of the facility might be able to see some of the city skyline. Maybe Oneida Lake or even the cooling towers on Lake Ontario near Oswego.

I would think this approach would ensure there is no directly sunlight on the field and no major problems televising games where there is a huge contrast between areas in sunlight and areas in shadow.

Going the other way, not much to see. Sentinel Heights, some TV and cellular towers, etc.

The stadium in Minneapolis is also leaving the southern side open. I wonder why?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Can't EFTE the entire stadium, it will create a greenhouse effect and be impossibly to keep cool with or without AC.

 

[chakka3421]

If they use the existing roof ring, which will hold down costs but greatly hamstring future flexibility, they can still add considerable capacity by adding a 400 section above the 300 section, as I described above. It couldn't be nearly as big as the 300 section, but it could go all the way around the perimeter of the building and I think could add about 10K seats to the facility.

I think it is a given that the level of the field will be lowered relative to the existing seats in the lower level, as this will allow them to more effectively utilize the space between lower level stands and the basketball court. That will help address the seats lost going from rows to individual seats.

Hope they don't convert the 200 level seats to private boxes. That would displace thousands of loyal season ticket holders and fundamentally change the dynamics of the arena. I am sure they have to add private boxes to help pay for the renovation. Just add them at the top of the 200 section, not down at the 200 level. You will get a lot more of them and they will be really good for football.

Tomcat - what I was told was that they have to pitch the roof where on one end they can put the press box, coordinators, camera crew and a few private boxes (like the SU box) up on that higher level and convert the existing press boxes to add more regular box seating. Regarding box availability that is more fluid on the football side than the basketball side.

If they do pitch the roof and add higher level boxes, I hope it's on the visitor side so that the TV viewing angle shows more of the home side where the Dome is more full than the visitors side.

 

[rrlbees]

Getting back on topic, I'm surprised nobody has expressed any reservations about possible darkness covering half the stadium with the new roof. If they emulate the Vikings roof concept, one half of the stadium would be bathed in natural light, and the other half would need lanterns. It's not something I would want to get used to. Dark shadows looks awful on TV and I'm sure it's not much easier on the eyes in person. The current bubble, though antiquated, did a nice job of allowing some natural light and minimizing this problem.

Can they just do ETFE over the entire roof and darken or tint the southern exposure as needed? It seems like ETFE can do pretty much anything. Just don't think a mass of steel and concrete covering one half of the stadium is going to be play well.

You complain about everything and are usually off base.

 

[CuseLegacy]

http://www.vikings.com/news/article...perience/ef5abce9-2f70-4fdc-9d02-2d4efa6b401a

New Vikings Stadium Q&A: Roof's Impact On The Game Day Experience
Posted Jun 6, 2013

Jeff Anderson Executive Director of CommunicationsFollow



In the first new stadium Q&A, we covered some of the basics about ethylene-tetraflorouethylene (ETFE), the plastic-like material that will be used to cover the south half of the facility’s roof. What is ETFE? How durable is it? How do you keep it clean? That was a nice primer to this week’s stadium installment, which will include some of your questions regarding the impact of the roof on the game day experience. Since several similar questions were submitted, we will pull one from each topic that should address many of your concerns.

Frank Riley – Are there any concerns regarding the potential for sun glare for players and fans with the clear roof?

Certainly the ETFE material on the roof’s south side, the glass wall/pivoting doors on the west side, and the openness throughout the new stadium will give fans the feeling of being outdoors while being in a climate-controlled environment. “Fritting,” a process used in glass preparation that leaves a pattern throughout the glass, will be used on the ETFE material to defuse some of the direct sunlight and radiant heat. This, combined with the orientation of the stadium, will minimize the impact on fans.

Along those same lines, many of you have asked whether fans will be hot inside the stadium. Again, the ETFE paired with a mechanical cooling system located at the top of the stadium that will push cold air down on to fans, will make for a comfortable experience for both the fans and the players.

John Larson – What can you do to get rid of shadowing on the field?

Shadowing will exist but we expect it to be very minimal. Along with the ETFE defusing sunlight, the steel support structure underneath the ETFE is much smaller and lighter than large trusses that span the length of the stadium, causing smaller shadows. HKS has prepared sun studies to better understand this issue. It is an important one for all parties, and we are confident shadows will not be an issue for players or fans.

Eric G. – Will any of the fans be under shadow considering only 60% of the roof is clear?

Yes, given that 40% of the roof will be a hard metal deck, a portion of the stadium seating will be within a shadow during day games.

William Smarts – The Dome is notoriously loud. Curious what the implications of the ETFE will be for crowd noise in the new stadium?

While the acoustic design is still underway, there certainly is a balance of ensuring that fans can hear the announcer and keeping this as one of the loudest stadiums in the NFL. First, the speakers throughout the stadium will be directed at the seats so fans will understand the spoken word. Nonetheless, the architects fully expect this to be a very loud stadium. The stadium is entirely enclosed; one half of the roof will be a hard metal deck. Furthermore, with the closest fans just 44 feet from the sideline, Vikings fans will be as close to the action as any NFL stadium. The reality is that fans truly make the difference in terms of noise, which is why stadiums like Mall of America Field, Green Bay’s Lambeau Field and Seattle’s CenturyLink Field are some of the toughest for visiting teams to have success.

Nathan Bork – Will snow/ice build up on the roof of the stadium?

Several characteristics of this roof are designed for the Minnesota climate. First, the slope of the stadium - rising from approximately 205 feet high in the east to approximately 270 feet in the west - will give the facility a unique ability to shed snow. Secondly, the translucent ETFE material will allow more sunlight and radiant heat through the roof, which combined with the natural rise of heat from inside the stadium will help melt the snow and ice. So where will all of that snow and ice go? Diverters will redirect it into gutters and collection basins located on the edges of the roof, keeping snow and ice from falling to the ground below.

 

[FrancoPizza]

If it's north light coming in, any shadowing would be greatly reduced.

I'm going purely based on that recent picture of Vikings stadium that was posted earlier in the thread. The shadows were pretty dark in the pic.