Future Campus Framework Presentation...

[OttoMets]

This is a neat tool that I've used in the past: http://asg-architects.com/2007/07/research/case-studies-research/comparing-campuses/ (Ayers Saint Gross was the architect of record on MacNaughton Hall, I think.)

This is a little dated, but SU probably has the FAR to support a much more dense campus-adjacent commercial district; one of the major goals of this plan -- building hundreds of units of housing on this side of campus -- should help overcome one of those obstacles. Perhaps rezoning could overcome another.

 

[Millhouse]

Who owns all of that property on Marshall Street? It's not the University, right? So I'm assuming any redevelopment there isn't in their hands.

i was thinking they'd develop somewhere else between the dome and m street

leave m street alone for the smelly hippies

 

[jekelish]

IIRC armory did pretty well with non chains. Perhaps some of those proprietor/concepts could be brought to M-Square (trademarked)

That makes me think - wouldn't it be awesome to build a smaller, maybe takeout only version of Dinosaur up on M-Street? That place would RAKE in the money on game days. And every other day. When I was at SU, we only rarely went to Dino because it was a little bit of a pain to find a way to get down there.

 

[TheCusian]

Ah, maybe we're speaking past each other, but I never think of chains and "cheap eats" as synonymous (Varsity-type places tend to be my go-to for that kind of thing). There seems to be no incentive for property owners to invest - you're right that the appearance has gotten worse, from Dave Jacobs' derelict old second story house facade above his storefront to the garish colors on what used to be Cosmo's. It's an interesting block. It'd be cool if I could bring out-of-town friends there with promises that "the food is excellent." The market isn't driving that sort of an improvement; I don't know exactly what would, but every time I've lived in a neighborhood that has undergone redevelopment, the retail choices have gotten more bland. (I realize I'm not making any point here, just musing.)

I agree.

It would be sweet if it were a mix - Cornell has some of that going for it.

 

[elimunelson]

i was thinking they'd develop somewhere else between the dome and m street

leave m street alone for the smelly hippies

I think M Street could use some fresh paint and a smile. But it's already a bit updated from when I was there in the early 90s.

My entire hope is they retain some of the charm down there. The school has other areas that are in more need of redevelopment if you ask me.

I will caviat that I CANNOT stand Dave Jacobs and Shirt World and would be enthusiastic about someone taking over that property and putting that criminal out of business.

 

[SU68]

It also needs to be reiterated that people on campus love him too. Putting a lot of structure into things and cutting out waste and non essentials.

Do you mean no more "connective corridors"? Oh, damn!

 

[OttoMets]

That makes me think - wouldn't it be awesome to build a smaller, maybe takeout only version of Dinosaur up on M-Street? That place would RAKE in the money on game days. And every other day. When I was at SU, we only rarely went to Dino because it was a little bit of a pain to find a way to get down there.

Dinosaur would do very well - except that they rely on alcohol sales for a lot of their revenue (like many restaurants).

Restaurants aren't allowed as-of-right on Marshall Street - each needs to apply for a special permit and get Planning Commission and Common Council approval. This shouldn't totally be a deal-breaker...

Except that SU has long had a practice of opposing every special permit request involving alcohol sales on Marshall and South Crouse. Every time a bar owner goes before the Common Council, SU's got someone there from Community & Government Relations with a letter of opposition. And the city has a funny way of caving to SU on these matters most of the time.

This has a chilling effect on the quality and diversity of new restaurants up there. Like Chipotle (though I'm not sure if that location sells beer?), Dino's in a better position to fight this than the mom-and-pops, but perhaps they don't think it's worth the effort.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Agree on Maryland. Seems to have a definite division between campus and their marshall street. Development along route 1 is coming along though, but it is certainly not as "accessible," as Marshall street is to their students. Route 1 is a huge street, much less pedestrian friendly than Waverly.

Well I only cite the development in route 1 as an example of something i think would
Work well and would like to see. Not Maryland as an example, more the specific project

 

[FrancoPizza]

Like every restaurant/bar they put in Destiny. Those are not only old in every other city, they're lame and not money makers anyways.

We may be behind the curve when it comes to getting destination chains/bars, but they're not hurting for money. Places are packed when they need to be.

Destiny blows. There's nothing unique about it. None of that money gets re-invested in Syracuse.

Many would beg to differ. There are chains, sure, but there's also a collection of entertainment options that are hard to find elsewhere in one place. Honestly, quit complaining unless you have a better business idea and the means to make it happen.

 

[Scooch]

I'm really glad this thread took the turn that it did. Very interesting discussion occurring today, thanks to those participating!

Personally, I'm very excited. We all know that in any large development plan only portions of it every become reality, so it's great that SU is aiming high. I suspect some of the parking concerns will be settled, there are a ton of option to improve the gameday experience in that regard and it's encouraging that Syverud and team are taking that into account.

Also really like the idea of moving student housing off South Campus. That has been an odd set-up forever and uniting most students on North (or a new West) campus would be great. And I'm for renovating M-Street. Agreed that it'd be a shame to lose it's "charm" but it really doesn't show well to prospective students. Even though it's not all SU owned property it certainly feels part of campus, so its understandable that the admin wants to make it look much better.

Who knows how much of this gets done but I applaud the effort.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Sounds like the VA center is closer to hitting the ground than the Dome at this point. If all we have to show for the dome remodeling plan is pie-in-the-sky renderings, I highly doubt this is going to break ground next year.

Btw, what shape did the new roof have in those sketches? Was it A-frame like Lucas Oil? Slanted like Minnesota's EFTE? Or will its shape stay the same, just larger?

 

[Cusefan0307]

We may be behind the curve when it comes to getting destination chains/bars, but they're not hurting for money. Places are packed when they need to be.

Many would beg to differ. There are chains, sure, but there's also a collection of entertainment options that are hard to find elsewhere in one place. Honestly, quit complaining unless you have a better business idea and the means to make it happen.

That's cool. I don't hang at Destiny, unless I go to the movies. Everyone has their personal preferences. I'd much rather go to Clark's or Blue Tusk than walk into WOB, and I'd rather eat at Empire or Kitty Hoynes than Gordon Biersch or Cantina Laredo.

 

[elimunelson]

I'm really glad this thread took the turn that it did. Very interesting discussion occurring today, thanks to those participating!

Personally, I'm very excited. We all know that in any large development plan only portions of it every become reality, so it's great that SU is aiming high. I suspect some of the parking concerns will be settled, there are a ton of option to improve the gameday experience in that regard and it's encouraging that Syverud and team are taking that into account.

Also really like the idea of moving student housing off South Campus. That has been an odd set-up forever and uniting most students on North (or a new West) campus would be great. And I'm for renovating M-Street. Agreed that it'd be a shame to lose it's "charm" but it really doesn't show well to prospective students. Even though it's not all SU owned property it certainly feels part of campus, so its understandable that the admin wants to make it look much better.

Who knows how much of this gets done but I applaud the effort.

Well put Scooch. The charm of something that is a bit different from the school architecture is something unique to Syracuse. I would be in 100% favor of sprucing it up though to make it look like it's not falling down as long as the effort didn't turn it into an outlet mall design wise.

I never understood the segregation of athletes on South Campus. The whole thing reeked of us vs them. Great idea to move them closer to campus.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Eliminating the Route 81 viaduct would be very helpful for University development and other commercial/residential development.

I hope that happens.

I don't see how development can really take off without bulldozing the pioneer subdivision. Good grief, that place is an eyesore. Please tell me there's a chance eminent domain can force a relocation.

Anyhow, I think this thread is starting to veer off-topic somewhat. The campus master plan is nice to discuss, but the dome renovation is ultimately driving our interest. And all we're getting is a tease. So to that I say, how much longer is this tease going to last before we hear some announcement??? If plans are semi-contingent on state funds, should we expect something once the upstate regional economic winners are awarded in early December?

 

[Millhouse]

I'm really glad this thread took the turn that it did. Very interesting discussion occurring today, thanks to those participating!

Personally, I'm very excited. We all know that in any large development plan only portions of it every become reality, so it's great that SU is aiming high. I suspect some of the parking concerns will be settled, there are a ton of option to improve the gameday experience in that regard and it's encouraging that Syverud and team are taking that into account.

Also really like the idea of moving student housing off South Campus. That has been an odd set-up forever and uniting most students on North (or a new West) campus would be great. And I'm for renovating M-Street. Agreed that it'd be a shame to lose it's "charm" but it really doesn't show well to prospective students. Even though it's not all SU owned property it certainly feels part of campus, so its understandable that the admin wants to make it look much better.

Who knows how much of this gets done but I applaud the effort.

wholeheartedly agree about south campus. they're going to need to overhaul it anyway because those apartments are pretty terrible.

 

[jr4750]

Sounds like the VA center is closer to hitting the ground than the Dome at this point. If all we have to show for the dome remodeling plan is pie-in-the-sky renderings, I highly doubt this is going to break ground next year.

Btw, what shape did the new roof have in those sketches? Was it A-frame like Lucas Oil? Slanted like Minnesota's EFTE? Or will its shape stay the same, just larger?

No question VA center is moving ahead. Could see something there really soon.

 

[jr4750]

Hey All,

One point I forgot to make, and perhaps Bill Orange can clarify more in depth, but we were told that the draft we saw was current as of October, however changes had been made already, so the process is most definitely still fluid. What I saw may have been replaced by something else already, so nobody panic if it doesn't meet your approval. I think there are staples that they want to get done soon, Vet Center, Dome, housing options, etc.

 

[GoSU96]

Destiny blows. There's nothing unique about it. None of that money gets re-invested in Syracuse.

I guess you missed the part where this town is under snow 5 months out of the year. As an aggregator for shopping, dining, and entertainment with convenience it does an excellent job.

Not everyone is a millennial faux urban hipster snob.

 

[Toga]

Not everyone is a millennial faux urban hipster snob.[/QUOTE]
Yeah Cusefan0307 - take your man bun and opinions somewhere else. Dude needs to just stop it with all of these opinions.

 

[longtimefan]

there was an 8 foot tall creepy as hell transportation distribution management professor with no concept of personal space who beat the drum every class about mag lev trains. still waiting

They aren't waiting in Japan, but what else is new..

Way back in the day, I got a quarterly newsletter from Pat Moynihan. He was a rail aficionado, and he used to wail about the failure of the US to adopt the mag-lev technology, which had been developed in a lab on Long Island (Grumman, maybe). Instead, he saw other countries (Japan, Germany, etc) taking US technology and making it work in the real world.

That was in the early-mid-'80's, and you see how far we've come since then.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I never understood the segregation of athletes on South Campus. The whole thing reeked of us vs them. Great idea to move them closer to campus.

Goes back to WWII. There was such an influx of students after the war that they were using Quonset huts st South Campus for housing.

 

[Millhouse]

Ted Wallin?

that's it. i only remember a few professor's names at this point

 

[GoSU96]

They aren't waiting in Japan, but what else is new..

Way back in the day, I got a quarterly newsletter from Pat Moynihan. He was a rail aficionado, and he used to wail about the failure of the US to adopt the mag-lev technology, which had been developed in a lab on Long Island (Grumman, maybe). Instead, he saw other countries (Japan, Germany, etc) taking US technology and making it work in the real world.

That was in the early-mid-'80's, and you see how far we've come since then.

This is a continental nation, Japan is a bunch of densely populated islands. In the one section of the country that is big urban corridor there is plenty of train service.

If there was a business case, somebody would be laying rail all over the country.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Hey All,

One point I forgot to make, and perhaps Bill Orange can clarify more in depth, but we were told that the draft we saw was current as of October, however changes had been made already, so the process is most definitely still fluid. What I saw may have been replaced by something else already, so nobody panic if it doesn't meet your approval. I think there are staples that they want to get done soon, Vet Center, Dome, housing options, etc.

Thanks for sharing this as you know more than SU staff members at this point. I checked with some friends on the Hill and the last they heard was the Sasaki recommendations last Spring.

I will be curious if athletes move to NorthWest (pay up Kanye) Campus because of the convenience of having them so close to the athletic facilities.

 

[FrancoPizza]

That's cool. I don't hang at Destiny, unless I go to the movies. Everyone has their personal preferences. I'd much rather go to Clark's or Blue Tusk than walk into WOB, and I'd rather eat at Empire or Kitty Hoynes than Gordon Biersch or Cantina Laredo.

I actually can appreciate both options. Both types of establishments bring something unique to the area. I love the downtown bars and restaurants, too, but come winter-time and especially if you have kids, destiny is a lot easier to access. Park off Solar, hop on the bridge and you're in. When I was single and in my 20s, the downtown scene definitely held more sway.