Game thoughts...

[Fly Rodder]

To my trained eye, it looked like a bunch of boys went out and took in a little too much Manhattan the night before. They may be a young team in terms of class, but there are plenty of 21 year olds with petty cash on the team. And most of them start.

 

[TheOrangeBuddha]

JB tried to play him extensively, early in the game we kept forcing the ball into him. He wasn't doing anything with his opportunities. He was slow getting up and down the court. Just watched the ball instead of boxing out. I could go on, but I wont. He needs to play aggressively, instead he plays timid. If he played the way Lee did for Temple today, Christmas would be unstoppable.

We watched a totally different game I suppose. Although I was there live (which can sometimes make it more difficult to see everything - I was near the court). Rak was never given any opportunities. He beat everyone down the court, handled a very tough pass and missed on a very athletic attempt at a dunk and went straight to the bench in the first half. He would post up, have great position and never get a pass.

 

[CU44SE]

We watched a totally different game I suppose. Although I was there live (which can sometimes make it more difficult to see everything - I was near the court). Rak was never given any opportunities. He beat everyone down the court, handled a very tough pass and missed on a very athletic attempt at a dunk and went straight to the bench in the first half. He would post up, have great position and never get a pass.

I agree, it's definitely a different game when you watch it on television, but I can remember Rak missing a lot of easy buckets. He just wasn't very active. I thought it was even more evident when I watched Lee play opposite of him. Lee was very active the whole game, working for every shot. I just didnt see that from Rak.

 

[TheOrangeBuddha]

Lee got the ball in scoring position. Hell Lee got the ball with no one near him because of the way the zone was flat footed throughout.

Rak was never given those opportunities. I'll research the game in the next day or two and see if I see what y'all are talking about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TheOrangeBuddha]

Meant rewatch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DoctorBombay]

JB has said that the development of our young bigs will determine how far this team goes.
Rak HAS to be more aggressive and DjC should get more time.
WE need rebounding but sometimes it seems JB is too impatient with youngsters who struggle in the 2-3.
Give the kid a chance to get comfortable and throw his weight around...he can be beastly on the backboards.

 

[Gabjon]

JB has said that the development of our young bigs will determine how far this team goes.
Rak HAS to be more aggressive and DjC should get more time.
WE need rebounding but sometimes it seems JB is too impatient with youngsters who struggle in the 2-3.
Give the kid a chance to get comfortable and throw his weight around...he can be beastly on the backboards.

You can only worry about rebounding if you are stopping people from scoring. Right now DC2 is not stopping people in the middle and Rak is only doing a slightly better. We will never be a great rebounding team as long as we play zone. Zones are designed to force teams to miss shots and to create turnovers (especially ours), but they will leave you open to a few offensive boards. They need to show DC2 video of AO playing middle of the zone in 2010 so he can see how to patrol the middle, because there is no rebound when you are taking the ball out of the net.

 

[ssbriefcase]

We are 5th in the country in rebounding. So we can absolutely be a great rebounding team with a zone and have in the past. It comes down to want to. And gripping the ball strong with both hands, instead of looking like your wearing snowmobile mittens while rebounding. Rak was taken out like someone else said because he doesn't get back on D. The reason the leash is short with him and DC2 is because there's a better option in Keita for D and even his offense, as of right now. There is a very long leash for the guards, due to the fact we don't have any guards except Cooney, which at this point is we don't have any guards to replace them.

 

[Hoov50]

There are obviously things that need to get better and most of the season these things weren't a problem. One of the things I didn't like was our press. Almost every time a player went long he was left wide open. A few times it was a weak spot in the trap/zone of the press, however quite a few times Triche came running up completely out of control and the guy just ran by him. He looked like a defensive back who read run and then realized it was a pass. I am not one o criticize Triche very often since I think many times fans are too hard on him. Against Temple I don't think enough of the blame is being put on Triche. He has to be our senior leader on both offense and defense, but he played poorly on both ends of the court.

 

[Gabjon]

We are 5th in the country in rebounding. So we can absolutely be a great rebounding team with a zone and have in the past. It comes down to want to. And gripping the ball strong with both hands, instead of looking like your wearing snowmobile mittens while rebounding. Rak was taken out like someone else said because he doesn't get back on D. The reason the leash is short with him and DC2 is because there's a better option in Keita for D and even his offense, as of right now. There is a very long leash for the guards, due to the fact we don't have any guards except Cooney, which at this point is we don't have any guards to replace them.

We are 5th in rebounding because we have played a bunch of teams who centers are shorter than our small forward we haven't finished better than 32nd in years. The zone doesn't lead itself to rebounding well doesn't mean that Rak wasn't soft on the boards yesterday. Those are two different conversations, usually we have at least one of the wings away from the basket when a shot goes up and it is easy for the opposing team to send 3 guys to the offensive glass. This leads to a 3 on 2 (our center and weak side forward) verse 3 offensive guys on the glass. Now if we get the rebound we start our fast break with 3 on 2 the other way and an easy two points, but if we don't get the board we are going to be in for a fight. In man to man this is not the case its 2 on 2 or 3 on 3.

That said I like the zone I think rebounding is and over blown stat, for me basketball is about getting more shot attempts and shooting a higher percentage than your opponent. It doesn't matter if it comes for rebounding or turnovers and the zone forces more turnovers than man IMO because you get more tipped passes since your back is never to the ball.

By the way we got more shot attempts and made a higher percentage than Temple yesterday but they were +10 at the line (in makes) and + 6 from the 3pt line (in makes) that 16 extra points (since a 3pt make is a net +1) and we only lost by 4.

 

[bozophobe]

Why didn't Grant play? Was there a reason he was left out? I'm aware his absence is consistent with Boeheim's style and logarithmic conservatism against teams he feels are important to beat - but he also said recently that all 9 players will play. And I'm not suggesting Jerami would have changed the outcome; so many here have already pointed out that the outside inside machine is broken. And MCW's FT misses alone sealed the loss, obviously.

 

[ssbriefcase]

We are 5th in rebounding because we have played a bunch of teams who centers are shorter than our small forward we haven't finished better than 32nd in years. The zone doesn't lead itself to rebounding well doesn't mean that Rak wasn't soft on the boards yesterday. Those are two different conversations, usually we have at least one of the wings away from the basket when a shot goes up and it is easy for the opposing team to send 3 guys to the offensive glass. This leads to a 3 on 2 (our center and weak side forward) verse 3 offensive guys on the glass. Now if we get the rebound we start our fast break with 3 on 2 the other way and an easy two points, but if we don't get the board we are going to be in for a fight. In man to man this is not the case its 2 on 2 or 3 on 3.

That said I like the zone I think rebounding is and over blown stat, for me basketball is about getting more shot attempts and shooting a higher percentage than your opponent. It doesn't matter if it comes for rebounding or turnovers and the zone forces more turnovers than man IMO because you get more tipped passes since your back is never to the ball.

By the way we got more shot attempts and made a higher percentage than Temple yesterday but they were +10 at the line (in makes) and + 6 from the 3pt line (in makes) that 16 extra points (since a 3pt make is a net +1) and we only lost by 4.

Well SU not finishing better than 32nd in years is a stretch. Yes, last year horrible 120th-35/game. Besides that always around 38/game. And a few key years which leads to my point we have been a great rebounding team in the past obviously using zone, and it can happen. Like you stated, I believe it to be one of the most overblown statements everyone mentions.
08-09 11th
07-08 14th
06-07 7th
05-06 29th
Also wasn't just talking about Rak on rebounding/softness. But what I was getting at is I saw multiple times where one of our own seemingly has a board he starts to bring it down and it gets ripped. Very frustrating to watch.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Big guys played defense flat footed all game. I think Coleman needs to play more. We need him on the floor. Let him play through more mistakes. Also, if Southerland is not shooting it well, he may as well go to the bench. His D and rebounding are horrible.

Did we scout Temple at all? Didn't seem like it.

Coleman looks barely useable to me. This kid is not ready at all. Right now all he is is a big body. While that is something, it is not generally something we end up having to be satisfied with. Keita is dangerously close to being a starter.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Why didn't Grant play? Was there a reason he was left out? I'm aware his absence is consistent with Boeheim's style and logarithmic conservatism against teams he feels are important to beat - but he also said recently that all 9 players will play. And I'm not suggesting Jerami would have changed the outcome; so many here have already pointed out that the outside inside machine is broken.

 

[JLine]

We'll be alright but every player has room to improve and needs to for us to win it all. This was a good game to learn from and Boeheim showed who he trusts out there in a meaningful game right now. DC2 and Rak need to improve to get those minutes over Keita right now, one needs to slow the game down in DaJuan and Roc needs to play with constant energy at all times. I think we have plenty of room to get better and will with time. We're a top 10 team with as good a chance as anyone if we click at the right time, great game to learn from.

 

[Gabjon]

Well SU not finishing better than 32nd in years is a stretch. Yes, last year horrible 120th-35/game. Besides that always around 38/game. And a few key years which leads to my point we have been a great rebounding team in the past obviously using zone, and it can happen. Like you stated, I believe it to be one of the most overblown statements everyone mentions.
08-09 11th
07-08 14th
06-07 7th
05-06 29th
Also wasn't just talking about Rak on rebounding/softness. But what I was getting at is I saw multiple times where one of our own seemingly has a board he starts to bring it down and it gets ripped. Very frustrating to watch.

If you notice the years we were at your best at rebounding we weren't very good, because large amounts of those rebounds were offensive rebounds which require a lot of missed shots. Gmac would shot it and Watkins and Roberts would go get it. In 08-09 it was Jonny and Devo shooting and AO and Ricky going to get it. The 09-10 team was a great shooting team so there were fewer rebounds and our rebounding numbers suffered but which team was better? Obviously the 09-10 team so this just proves how over blown rebounding is.

 

[ssbriefcase]

If you notice the years we were at your best at rebounding we weren't very good, because large amounts of those rebounds were offensive rebounds which require a lot of missed shots. Gmac would shot it and Watkins and Roberts would go get it. In 08-09 it was Jonny and Devo shooting and AO and Ricky going to get it. The 09-10 team was a great shooting team so there were fewer rebounds and our rebounding numbers suffered but which team was better? Obviously the 09-10 team so this just proves how over blown rebounding is.

09-10 was no slouch in rebounding though 38.2/game, but yeah def the better team. I guess it would come down to what factors are causing the fluctuation in numbers. If it's great shooting then fine, but like the Temple game, when it's getting the ball stripped and laziness in securing the ball and giving opponents an extra possession then that's got to get fixed and I believe it will be.

 

[Gabjon]

09-10 was no slouch in rebounding though 38.2/game, but yeah def the better team. I guess it would come down to what factors are causing the fluctuation in numbers. If it's great shooting then fine, but like the Temple game, when it's getting the ball stripped and laziness in securing the ball and giving opponents an extra possession then that's got to get fixed and I believe it will be.

They only had 3 more defensive rebounds than us and we were tied in offensive rebounding which is the more important number. We didn't lose that game on the boards, but if would have won the offensive rebounding battle it would have overcome our poor foul shooting and lack of 3pters made to win the game. Its all how you look at it.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

We just don't have enough "special" on this team to make a run in March. That is what really stood out to me. We have a bunch of nice program kids and one really dynamic big guard who might be a little reckless. You just don't win close games in March without someone who can go get you a bucket.

 

[bothsocksup]

Cj is probably the furthest thing from the problem on this team... in fact IMO hes our best player. A 'black hole,' awful assessement

 

[reedny]

Two flaws going into this season: MCW's inexperience in big games and lack of inside firepower. Boom.

Obviously, we're out of balance offensively until our bigs emerge --- a jump-shooting team. That gives our opponents an easy defensive game-plan and projects underachievement in conference play (if it doesn't improve).

On defense, we gave up more than 80 points ... lots of those on second-chance baskets. Rebounding (defensive) was horrible, and help-side rotations poor. We allowed Wyatt to get off and failed to match their intensity down the stretch. They wanted it more.

MCW was obviously cold (they made him uncomfortable). Even so, I liked his moxy. Yes he tried to win the game on his own (and bricked a bunch of shots and free throws) ... but I give him credit for trying to step up. That was a valuable piece of experience for him.

No doubt the loss (and Wyatt's constant trash-talking) left a sour taste in the team's mouth over the holiday. Let's hope it fires them up on defense.

 

[Knicks411]

total rebounds per game isn't a good way to look at rebounding. There are two aspects of rebounding; offensive and defensive. Offensive we are usually pretty good. Defensively we are usually pretty awful.

 

[SWC75]

total rebounds per game isn't a good way to look at rebounding. There are two aspects of rebounding; offensive and defensive. Offensive we are usually pretty good. Defensively we are usually pretty awful.

So far this year:

Rebounding Percentage
(one team’s offensive rebounded added to the other team’s defensive rebounds and the O-rebs as a percentage)
SU: 10 of 34 .294 San Diego State 20 of 55 .364
SU: 15 of 38 .395 Wagner 13 of 47 .277
SU: 16 of 32 .500 Princeton 7 of 22 .318
SU: 13 of 38 .342 Colgate 7 of 37 .189
SU: 11 of 37 .247 Arkansas 9 of 41 .222
SU: 20 of 42 .476 Eastern Michigan 15 of 45 .333
SU: 19 of 44 .432 Long Beach State 14 of 48 .292
SU: 25 of 51 .490 Monmouth 12 of 50 .240
SU: 12 of 33 .364 Canisius 16 of 38 .421
SU: 14 of 29 .483 Detroit 13 of 20 .394
SU: 19 of 44 .432 Temple 19 of 41 .463
Totals: SU: 174 of 422 .412 Opponent 145 of 444 .327

 

[Gabjon]

So far this year:

Rebounding Percentage
(one team’s offensive rebounded added to the other team’s defensive rebounds and the O-rebs as a percentage)
SU: 10 of 34 .294 San Diego State 20 of 55 .364
SU: 15 of 38 .395 Wagner 13 of 47 .277
SU: 16 of 32 .500 Princeton 7 of 22 .318
SU: 13 of 38 .342 Colgate 7 of 37 .189
SU: 11 of 37 .247 Arkansas 9 of 41 .222
SU: 20 of 42 .476 Eastern Michigan 15 of 45 .333
SU: 19 of 44 .432 Long Beach State 14 of 48 .292
SU: 25 of 51 .490 Monmouth 12 of 50 .240
SU: 12 of 33 .364 Canisius 16 of 38 .421
SU: 14 of 29 .483 Detroit 13 of 20 .394
SU: 19 of 44 .432 Temple 19 of 41 .463
Totals: SU: 174 of 422 .412 Opponent 145 of 444 .327

Do you have these numbers though the BE season and post season from previous years? I bet we would have the lower number most years.

 

[ssbriefcase]

total rebounds per game isn't a good way to look at rebounding. There are two aspects of rebounding; offensive and defensive. Offensive we are usually pretty good. Defensively we are usually pretty awful.

You mean completely opposite right?