Geno Thorpe - COMMITTED TO SYRACUSE

[dasher]

Problem is Thompson needs to play due to his offense and he is beyond abysmal defensively. If he can become just bad, that's a huge improvement. Hopefully the other pieces are able to mask his lack of ability on one end of the floor - with it being Battle's second year and hopefully Frank will buy a clue this year. That should help with the direct penetration that our guards gave up so much of last year.

He was bad defensively last year. It isn't like he has some disease and can't get better.

 

[dasher]

I really like the flexibility Thorpe would bring to multiple positions. While not ideal, the ability to plug Geno in at the 2 and swing Tyus to the 3 with the uncertainty there could solve a lot of problems for us. A line up of Howard, Thorpe, Battle, Thompson and either C should be able to put some points on the board. Then if just one of the new forwards comes through (Brissett, Dolezaj, Moyer) we have considerable upside.

That isn't going to be the plan. Thorpe will play the 1 and Battle will play the 2.

 

[Consigliere]

Agree 100%. Suddenly, that looks like a formidable scoring / shooting lineup.

All contingent upon Howard righting the ship, however, which is far form a certainty.

Agree 1 and 5 are the biggest ?s but with that lineup we don't need much from Frank (or HW for that matter). Just minimize the stupid mistakes and play solid D at the top of the zone. The other part to the flexibility is that if one of the three new guys shows the ability to shoot the ball and play SF regularly Thorpe gives us insurance at PG and can step in for Frank leaving Battle at 2G.

 

[Consigliere]

He was bad defensively last year. It isn't like he has some disease and can't get better.

Keep in mind he played very little in the middle of the zone until we got into the conference. He was probably #3.5 on the C depth chart in the pre-season. Not sure if I would rather see him in the middle or on the wing but hopefully we can lock him into one or the other before November.

 

[Consigliere]

That isn't going to be the plan. Thorpe will play the 1 and Battle will play the 2.

Agree that will be and should be the plan going in but if we go 0-for-3 with the SF candidates this may at least be a mitigating strategy. I don't think we anticipated Malachi would be a SF before last year started either.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Who is going to be able to break down a defense? Another reason we struggled and became often a purely standing arounf/jump shooting team was lack of penetration (same ole saga). I'm not convinced Frank is quick enough against better teams. Gillon could but then often just refused to it seemed. That leaves us with only Battle from the 2G. This is worrisome. Hopefully Thorpe if he comes has more ability than Frank in that area.

 

[jordoo]

I don't see Battle playing any SF this season unless its situational at the end of games. We have 4 guards. Washington is going to be good but it seems him contributing a lot this season isn't likely. That leaves 3 guards one of whom struggled against good competition last year. I see Battle leading the team in minutes played and playing 99% of those minutes at the 2G.

Could he play the SF for us? Sure, but the way this team lays out he will be needed for big minutes at guard. The forwards are all going to be better than most expect offensively. They simply need to be able to make open 3's at mid 30% or better. I think they will do that and who knows one of them might be a surprisingly good shooter for us. They each have other skills and aren't limited to needing to shoot 3's to be effective so as long as they are enough of a threat to spread the floor that should be enough. We can't forget that when Thompson plays the 5 he will be able to spread the floor as well.

 

[RF2044]

I don't see Battle playing any SF this season unless its situational at the end of games. We have 4 guards. Washington is going to be good but it seems him contributing a lot this season isn't likely. That leaves 3 guards one of whom struggled against good competition last year. I see Battle leading the team in minutes played and playing 99% of those minutes at the 2G.

Could he play the SF for us? Sure, but the way this team lays out he will be needed for big minutes at guard. The forwards are all going to be better than most expect offensively. They simply need to be able to make open 3's at mid 30% or better. I think they will do that and who knows one of them might be a surprisingly good shooter for us. They each have other skills and aren't limited to needing to shoot 3's to be effective so as long as they are enough of a threat to spread the floor that should be enough. We can't forget that when Thompson plays the 5 he will be able to spread the floor as well.

It comes down to whether one of the frosh can provide the requisite / needed outside shooting from the 3, or not. If Brisset, Moyer, or Dolezaj can do that, then Battle shouldn't see much time at the 3. But if not, then he might.

 

[gilardino]

That isn't going to be the plan. Thorpe will play the 1 and Battle will play the 2.

So if Thorpe comes,he is the projected starter at the point?

 

[RF2044]

Who is going to be able to break down a defense? Another reason we struggled and became often a purely standing arounf/jump shooting team was lack of penetration (same ole saga). I'm not convinced Frank is quick enough against better teams. Gillon could but then often just refused to it seemed. That leaves us with only Battle from the 2G. This is worrisome. Hopefully Thorpe if he comes has more ability than Frank in that area.

Great question. Battle obviously can, but needs to show more than he did last year. Thorpe can, as well. The question is whether Frank will show improved capabilities [or not, in which case his role would be limited]. And whether someone from the Brisssett / Dolezaj / Moyer group could show an ability to create off of the bounce.

 

[Consigliere]

It comes down to whether one of the frosh can provide the requisite / needed outside shooting from the 3, or not. If Brisset, Moyer, or Dolezaj can do that, then Battle shouldn't see much time at the 3. But if not, then he might.

My point, exactly. Not a primary strategy, merely mitigation if none of the three prove to be proficient at the position.

 

[jordoo]

It comes down to whether one of the frosh can provide the requisite / needed outside shooting from the 3, or not. If Brisset, Moyer, or Dolezaj can do that, then Battle shouldn't see much time at the 3. But if not, then he might.

I hear what you are saying but I'm looking at it like this. I am expecting all three of those players to be better and more productive players on both ends than Howard will be. If that is the case playing Battle at the 3 means more Howard and less of one of those three. There is absolutely no indication that having Howard in the game will add more shooting that having our forwards in the game. Unless Howard really turns the corner this year I don't see it.

 

[RF2044]

My point, exactly. Not a primary strategy, merely mitigation if none of the three prove to be proficient at the position.

And what's intriguing about that lineup [to me, anyway] is the potential scoring pop from four of those positions. Again, Howard needs to make a big jump, but if he can provide consistent scoring / shooting, then a lineup with him, double-figure scoring Thorpe, Battle who is poised for a big year, and Thompson who should be another double digit scorer suddenly looks like a formidable group. Not the offensively anemic squad many feared prior to some of our latest recruits being brought in.

Shooting, ball handling, scoring, passing from four potential double-digit scorers. And we haven't even mentioned Brissett or Dolezaj. Could be a nice lineup, if Howard elevates his play.

 

[jordoo]

My point, exactly. Not a primary strategy, merely mitigation if none of the three prove to be proficient at the position.

Worried about shooting so we are going to slide our shooting guard to the 3 so that we can play a PG who has not shown he can shoot very well or play PG very well for that matter. I get that Battle is a known quantity as a shooter and offensive player and that Thorpe can also give us both offense and shooting but that doesn't mean we get more out of them by playing Howard alongside of them.

 

[RF2044]

I hear what you are saying but I'm looking at it like this. I am expecting all three of those players to be better and more productive players on both ends than Howard will be. If that is the case playing Battle at the 3 means more Howard and less of one of those three. There is absolutely no indication that having Howard in the game will add more shooting that having our forwards in the game. Unless Howard really turns the corner this year I don't see it.

Agreed -- that's why Howard is the determining factor. If he comes back as basically the same unreliable player with inconsistent scoring / shooting / ball handling, then use him exclusively in a reserve role, Thorpe starts at point, and he and Battle handle the ball a ton in a combo guard backcourt.

Will be interesting to see how things unfold. Excited to see what Moyer, Brissett, and Dolezaj can do and how ready they are. Can't wait to observe practice in the preseason.

 

[dasher]

So if Thorpe comes,he is the projected starter at the point?

I don't think he is coming here to sit. I also don't know how JB will start a game.

 

[jordoo]

Agreed -- that's why Howard is the determining factor. If he comes back as basically the same unreliable player with inconsistent scoring / shooting / ball handling, then use him exclusively in a reserve role, Thorpe starts at point, and he and Battle handle the ball a ton in a combo guard backcourt.

Will be interesting to see how things unfold. Excited to see what Moyer, Brissett, and Dolezaj can do and how ready they are. Can't wait to observe practice in the preseason.

I think it would actually be most important for Howard to be a capable reliable PG when handling the ball and running the offense for him to be out there with Battle and Thorpe. If he could do that he could be more discriminating in his shot selection. He showed early last year that he could make good open looks when he was set up. I don't feel his shooting is as bad as the numbers indicate. I think that its his poor play as a PG that got him rattled and lacking confidence. That lead to a lot of bad decisions and bad shots. I'm not saying its out of the question I just feel like Moyer and Brissett are certainly more ready to contribute this season than Frank. I suspect Solejaz will be good as well but that really is a guess.

 

[dasher]

Agree that will be and should be the plan going in but if we go 0-for-3 with the SF candidates this may at least be a mitigating strategy. I don't think we anticipated Malachi would be a SF before last year started either.

I think they did.

 

[newmexicuse]

ZERO Doubt that we will be better off with Thorpe than Ayala for the upcoming season. Let's just put a wrap on this thing during his visit.

 

[RF2044]

I think it would actually be most important for Howard to be a capable reliable PG when handling the ball and running the offense for him to be out there with Battle and Thorpe. If he could do that he could be more discriminating in his shot selection. He showed early last year that he could make good open looks when he was set up. I don't feel his shooting is as bad as the numbers indicate. I think that its his poor play as a PG that got him rattled and lacking confidence. That lead to a lot of bad decisions and bad shots. I'm not saying its out of the question I just feel like Moyer and Brissett are certainly more ready to contribute this season than Frank. I suspect Solejaz will be good as well but that really is a guess.

Last season, I expected Frank to make a big jump based upon him playing an increased workload of minutes toward the end of his freshman year, including solid play / shooting during our NCAA tournament Final Four run. I thought that he'd benefit from that experience, and make the proverbial "sophomore jump." When we pulled in Gillon, it was readily obvious from summer / preseason observation that Gillon was a better scorer, shooter, ball handler, and lead guard than Frank despite being 5-9 and not a great defensive fit for our system. Instead of showing the improvement I expected, Frank imploded as a function of having to compete for a starting role.

Heading into this year, I am far less confident that he'll right the ship, or even show a good attitude. I'm not from Missouri, but he'll need to show me before I'm comfortable putting any eggs in his basket. So I certainly don't overlook the possibility that he might shiz the bed again this year. I'm just not going to completely write him off until we see whether and / or how much he's improved. If he does, then the team will have a lot of lineup flexibility and another shooter. If he doesn't, then I won't be surprised.

Here's hoping he steps up.

 

[jordoo]

Last season, I expected Frank to make a big jump based upon him playing an increased workload of minutes toward the end of his freshman year, including solid play / shooting during our NCAA tournament Final Four run. I thought that he'd benefit from that experience, and make the proverbial "sophomore jump." When we pulled in Gillon, it was clear from observation that Gillon was a better scorer, shooter, ball handler, and lead guard than Frank despite being 5-9 and not a great defensive fit. Frank imploded as a function of that competition.

Heading into this year, I am far less confident that he'll right the ship, or even show a good attitude. I'm not from Missouri, but he'll need to show me before I'm comfortable putting any eggs in his basket. So I certainly don't overlook the possibility that he might shiz the bed again this year. I'm just not going to completely write him off until we see whether and / or how much he's improved. If he does, then the team will have a lot of lineup flexibility and another shooter. If he doesn't, then I won't be surprised.

Here's hoping he steps up.

That's fair and pretty much how I see it which is why I've been saying we have to have another option at the PG spot. You can see that there are parts of Frank's game that show promise but last season looking at the big picture was awful. As you touched on a little bit the reason for his collapse and apparent emotional weakness of his game do not lend one to being overly hopeful of a turn around.

 

[GooseMutt]

I think it would actually be most important for Howard to be a capable reliable PG when handling the ball and running the offense for him to be out there with Battle and Thorpe. If he could do that he could be more discriminating in his shot selection. He showed early last year that he could make good open looks when he was set up. I don't feel his shooting is as bad as the numbers indicate. I think that its his poor play as a PG that got him rattled and lacking confidence. That lead to a lot of bad decisions and bad shots. I'm not saying its out of the question I just feel like Moyer and Brissett are certainly more ready to contribute this season than Frank. I suspect Solejaz will be good as well but that really is a guess.

Frank can't play looking over his shoulder at Thorpe the way he did with Gillon last year. He needs to step up and own it or transfer

 

[Consigliere]

I hear what you are saying but I'm looking at it like this. I am expecting all three of those players to be better and more productive players on both ends than Howard will be. If that is the case playing Battle at the 3 means more Howard and less of one of those three. There is absolutely no indication that having Howard in the game will add more shooting that having our forwards in the game. Unless Howard really turns the corner this year I don't see it.

I'm expecting the same - well from at least 2 of the 3. If you remember I was on here pre-season wondering why other posters were so high on Frank and questioning what indication he gave that he would evolve into a top caliber PG. Still questioning that. All I am saying is that without Thorpe we need one of the three SF candidates to step forward and contribute offensively. With him, EVEN IF NONE OF THEM DO, we would have the option of playing Battle for some time at the 3 and play Frank and Thorpe in the backcourt. Don;t want to see it happen, hope it doesn't happen but it conceivably COULD happen if we experience the worst case with all 3 of the newbies.

 

[CuseLifer11]

Who is going to be able to break down a defense? Another reason we struggled and became often a purely standing arounf/jump shooting team was lack of penetration (same ole saga). I'm not convinced Frank is quick enough against better teams. Gillon could but then often just refused to it seemed. That leaves us with only Battle from the 2G. This is worrisome. Hopefully Thorpe if he comes has more ability than Frank in that area.

I can't stress enough how skilled Marek is. He will be able to break down opposing 3s and 4s immediately. He is not a hail mary. He is a 30 min player. From day 1.

 

[JLine]

I can't read all of the discussion, but let's sign him up. Too long for me, even though I write essays myself. That backcourt is going to be lethal at scoring, and on top of the zone. Frank, HW, Thorpe, Tyus.

Then Moyer, Oshae, Marek, Sidibe, PC. Oh, and TT. We have shooters, length, scorers off the dribble, rebounders, and explosive athletes. This team will be good when we lock Geno up.

I don't mind how young they are. The D will be so much better. Time to get this unit going, so we can figure out the unit earlier. We were a Tourney team last year, but we didn't have everyone in here early enough. Plus, some other junk.

Our frontcourt is gonna be a monster. With Geno, then our backcourt will be as well. Love this team.