Give me a 4 year Scoop over a 1 year MCW or Ennis

[Opus]

Loved Pearl, loved Sherm. I think my 3rd fav PG was Z Sims. He stuck around (OK I know he had no choice) and led one of my fav SU teams to the Championship game. It's all relative.

 

[orangehomer]

Did you watch the game? Our 4 year player was invisible the last 5 minutes of the game while Ennis was scoring our last 11 points. I understand your emotional response to freshman leaving, but your argument, in regards to team success, is flawed.

Scoop was part of two of our great teams, but he wasn't THE reason they were so great. Wes Johnson, another player we only had for one year, was the best player on a great team that had the ideal mix of experience and talent. You can't be a great program with one or the other. You have to have the kids talented enough to leave mixed with the 4 year guys that provide stability and leadership. '03 was the perfect mix. It's hard to get that consistently.

the point is about legacy. what is ennis legacy? he almost got us to a sweet sixteen? he was the lottery player on a team that tanked. I like ennis but, he basically accomplished nothing here. and I love how you guys act like he almost pulled a rabbit out of hat. it was against Dayton. Dayton sucks. and ennis took more shots than anybody by far

 

[SWC75]

Give me a four year Scoop Jardine backing up one year MCW, Tyler Ennis and Kaleb Joseph.

 

[wfschrec]

the point is about legacy. what is ennis legacy? he almost got us to a sweet sixteen? he was the lottery player on a team that tanked. I like ennis but, he basically accomplished nothing here. and I love how you guys act like he almost pulled a rabbit out of hat. it was against Dayton. Dayton sucks. and ennis took more shots than anybody by far

Good lord Dayton made the elite 8 for crying out loud. While I think that him leaving is a mistake when it comes to his career trajectory lets not grind on his legacy. Would you trade Ennis' legacy for Nerlens Noel's legacy? That argument is played out ... how many frosh point guards run a 28 win season with a huge winning streak to start the year? Not many sorry but it doesn't happen all the time. I will take his "legacy" over many that have been selected in the lottery in the last 10 years. Besides when he is sitting at home at age 50 living off the millions he made after being selected in the lottery I'm sure his SU legacy will be the furthest from his mind ... hell I would put Ennis' legacy up against Andrew Wiggins' legacy too ...

 

[sufandu]

the point is about legacy. what is ennis legacy? he almost got us to a sweet sixteen? he was the lottery player on a team that tanked. I like ennis but, he basically accomplished nothing here. and I love how you guys act like he almost pulled a rabbit out of hat. it was against Dayton. Dayton sucks. and ennis took more shots than anybody by far

The discussion wasn't at all about legacy. It was about having a good four year player versus a more talented player that only stays for one year.

You're right though, Ennis won't have much of a Syracuse legacy, but what will CJ's be? It will be that he was a 4 year guy that worked hard and improved throughout his career but didn't have the talent to carry us when we needed it, similar to Kris Joseph's. What was Scoop's? He was a 5 year player that improved greatly over the course of his career, bled orange, and was a very good contributor on some very good teams. He was never a great player and we'll never make it to another final four by loading our whole team with decent 4 year guys. We'll always have to have a mix of 4 year guys that provide stability, and elite talents that probably won't stick around past their sophomore year, at the longest.

 

[bcuse19]

The discussion wasn't at all about legacy. It was about having a good four year player versus a more talented player that only stays for one year.

You're right though, Ennis won't have much of a Syracuse legacy, but what will CJ's be? It will be that he was a 4 year guy that worked hard and improved throughout his career but didn't have the talent to carry us when we needed it, similar to Kris Joseph's. What was Scoop's? He was a 5 year player that improved greatly over the course of his career, bled orange, and was a very good contributor on some very good teams. He was never a great player and we'll never make it to another final four by loading our whole team with decent 4 year guys. We'll always have to have a mix of 4 year guys that provide stability, and elite talents that probably won't stick around past their sophomore year, at the longest.

This is how you build a program. I'm still surprised at the bitterness on this board about Ennis leaving. Does no one think this is good for recruiting? Since Flynn we have had three PG's and one SG go to the NBA early. Does any other program have that level of success with talented guards coming to their school recently? This lets us recruit these unbelievable talents because let's be honest, if you're a top prospect you come to a school that gives you the best chance to play, develop and make the league.

Only for college basketball fans is their school the end goal, these kids all want to go pro. We're using that to our advantage.

Ennis left, I get it. We're all sad as Syracuse fans. I'd rather keep churning through talent, making it to the tournament every year with a legitimate shot to win every game than become one of these mid-majors with 4 year players that make stunning sweet sixteen runs every 8 years.

Win some, lose some. But if the floor is a 2nd round flame out against an Elite 8 team that's pretty good for me.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Not because he's better,obviously,but to watch these guys grow and become part of us. I hate the rent a player age we're in. I never want to end up being Kentucky. I honestly think Tyler's legacy here will be more Donte Greene than anything else. But I guess you can't blame him.

I'd never want to end up like Kentucky either. Three final fours in 4 years. Oh the humanity!

 

[NineOneSeven]

It takes a combination of elite talent and steady contributors. The steady contributors are often more experienced players. And yes, luck plays a decent role.

Elite talent are typically young players because the NBA is usually the next step after 1-2 years. When we won, we had elite talent with Carmelo Anthony. We also had Kueth Duany on that team, a steady contributor who I believe was a huge reason we won that year.

 

[MikeSU02]

It takes a combination of elite talent and steady contributors. The steady contributors are often more experienced players. And yes, luck plays a decent role.

Elite talent are typically young players because the NBA is usually the next step after 1-2 years. When we won, we had elite talent with Carmelo Anthony. We also had Kueth Duany on that team, a steady contributor who I believe was a huge reason we won that year.

I believe there was a stat that year that we were undefeated in games where Kueth scored 10 points or more.

It's a good point, even the dominant UK team that won in 2012 had a nice mix of players (even though they only played 6.5 players or so if IIRC). The NBA lockout helped ensure that, but having the mix they had was very beneficial.