Glad Symir Sat On The Bench All Season

[HRE Otto IV]

What were Symir’s stats in the games where he played double digit minutes through January?
He played, he did not perform, coaches worked with him and he excelled in Brooklyn.

His stats were fine per min. They were "lower" because he didn't play enough mins. People are arguing based on those stats he should have gotten more mins. Look at those assist totals even in limited time. The below were all good games during that period you mentioned.

@Duke 25 mins 6 asst
FSU 15 mins 4 asst
@Miami 14 mins 6 asst
Cornell 14 mins 4 asst
Brown 17 mins 7 asst
@FSU 12 mins 5 asst
Auburn 21 mins 5 asst
Drexel 21 mins 3 asst
Lafayette 18 mins 4 asst

That is not performing?

 

[orangecuse]

This board has officially reached the need to be flushed with a full can of air freshener. I’m done.

Sorry I don’t hang on your every word...

Interesting that you're still 'hanging' here at all.

 

[Bayside44]

No. What i realize having played is that without actual game experience, not mop up time but real minutes very few players improve. The fact that as the kids played more minutes without having to look over their shoulder every time, they made a mistake miraculously they played better. Players need to get into a rhythm. It takes a good 2 to 3 minutes of actual game time to get into the flow. So, what i see has nothing to do with later in the season. It has to do with game time and specifically game time without being tight and having to worry about coming out. Symir and Benny all made significant strides when they knew that they were going to get a solid run. I also see that kids do better when they are playing their natural position, Like Joe at the 2. Bottom line is that Sy should have gotten more minutes during the season, Joe less and Buddy less unless Buddy moved down to the three.

Benny was terrible this season. Using a laugher of a game really doesn't stand up.

Symir started to figure out the system and got better. That being said yeah sure he's strong with the ball and logically should've gotten some more minutes.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Another guy who the experts year decried as a reach and not worthy of a P5 scholarship that our incompetent staff settled for. Then when he develops into a potential all-ACC player the staff is stubborn for not playing him more early when he could barely lace up his Nikes.

well the development of his game was astronomic over the course of they year

a bit of contradiction, sure, but he didnt look good early on...that is just facts.


i think its a fair question to ask - does JB kinda get settled into a rotation that ignores how his players are currently playing?

does he just preconceive it from preseason and early games or even from the offseason? is playing time planned out in the offseason? thats how it seems!

bc players like edwards, kadary, sy seem to have been squeezed lately and we only know that with certainty bc injuries forced them onto the court.

 

[TexanMark]

He is the same guy that sat on the Marq bench as well. A marq coach said off the record that we weren't getting much in Symir. Boy did he play well the last two games. I wonder if that marq coach saw that?

Dash, as you know...sometimes the light comes in in both coach and player.

The good news is we have a legit PG for next year. If Devo and or GMac can work on his outside jumper and get him to 30-33% at the three...that would be a start

 

[pearl31]

Seton Hall’s offense fell apart at the end of the season.

when Aiken went out and Kadary absorbed most of those minutes

 

[kcsu]

when Aiken went out and Kadary absorbed most of those minutes

and Tom C won at Indiana. Different situations. Kid should have stayed and he would be off to the NBA. He and Jim both screwed up

 

[djcon57]

Tiresome. You notice that kids sorta get better as the season goes on and they figure out what they're doing?

People make KR out to be Magic Johnson. Dude clocked 26 minutes last night. Still cannot shoot.

You realize Kadary is hurt right?


“Kooks has been phenomenal,” said Pirates coach Kevin Willard, who has guided the Pirates to their fifth NCAA Tournament since 2016. “Going into the year, we were really looking for someone that could be a multidimensional point guard — a guy that can score, a guy that can get guys involved — and he’s exceeded my expectations as the year has gone on.

“He’s battled a really tough thumb injury for most of the season, too. I think he has made tremendous progress, and I think we were talking about this just the other day, what he needs to do to get to the next level. He’s a hard worker, he’s got a great attitude, he’s got a very good knowledge for the game and I think you’re just starting to see him scratching the surface of what kind of player he’s going to be.”

 

[Bayside44]

You realize Kadary is hurt right?

Yeah I know. Still cannot shoot it. His two year stat line is consistent.

He's played the same there as here. It's who he is.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Dash, as you know...sometimes the light comes in in both coach and player.

The good news is we have a legit PG for next year. If Devo and or GMac can work on his outside jumper and get him to 30-33% at the three...that would be a start

Symir shot .375 from three this season.

The issue is we don't trust that to hold up at a greater volume.

And he very clearly did not have the green light and/or confidence to let it fly every time he was open from deep.

 

[Bayside44]

You realize Kadary is hurt right?


Kooks has been phenomenal,” said Pirates coach Kevin Willard, who has guided the Pirates to their fifth NCAA Tournament since 2016. “Going into the year, we were really looking for someone that could be a multidimensional point guard — a guy that can score, a guy that can get guys involved — and he’s exceeded my expectations as the year has gone on.

“He’s battled a really tough thumb injury for most of the season, too. I think he has made tremendous progress, and I think we were talking about this just the other day, what he needs to do to get to the next level. He’s a hard worker, he’s got a great attitude, he’s got a very good knowledge for the game and I think you’re just starting to see him scratching the surface of what kind of player he’s going to be.”

That's nice that Willard says that in public. Seriously it does go a ways. Until the BE haven't heard about an injury or him being taped. I watched more than I normally would to see if his game expanded. His line is still his line.

Goodman at least reported the same issues "off the record" that he had here.

 

[Niastri]

3-5 mins on the bench plus another 10-15 minutes at the 3 (like we did with Rautins) and your talking about a rotation at guard with room for 3 solid players and buddy still pays 35+

It’s not like we had lights out forwards that couldnt come off the floor for 5-10 mins. Jimmy and Cole have both had awful games at points this year not to mention Benny being more off than on

The interesting thing is that Buddy's weakness at SF is rebounding... Torrence is terrific rebounding as a PG. The supposed weakness of the the guard lineup is thus mitigated.

A lineup of:

Anselem
Swider
Buddy
Girard
Torrence

They could be competitive on the boards and still be a deadly shooting team. Possibly better defensively, as Torrence is a bigger upgrade at guard than Buddy is a downgrade at forward.

Oh well, hindsight is easier than foresight.

 

[tbonezone]

Glad Symir Sat On The Bench All Season​

symir torrence...

 

[Chip]

Tiresome. You notice that kids sorta get better as the season goes on and they figure out what they're doing?

People make KR out to be Magic Johnson. Dude clocked 26 minutes last night. Still cannot shoot.

People think transfers will just gel from day one. Or freshmen.

If we get a top shelf guy, yeah, probably. Or they'll score so much we won't notice anything else.

But guys like Symir, Cole, Benny, they're going to take some time. Feeling comfortable, finding out where they fit in to the roster. Some take longer than others. Not everyone can be Carmelo and Gerry.

Now that we've seen certain things from Symir, Jesse, Benny, Cole (if he comes back), and can move Joe to off guard, I'm looking forward to next year more than I was a few weeks ago.

And yes, I know this stuff never works out like I hope. But it's all I've got.

 

[PhatOrange]

Early in the season, Sy was struggling and adjusting. He then was injured twice and missed games and practice time.

Not picking you out, you're just the last person I read to mention this. I think the narrative that Sy was struggling early on is a board myth.

Just looking at his game logs the stats don't paint a picture that he was struggling (and personally I don't have revisionist history, I was calling for him to run the team in November.

His worst game over the first 2 months of the season was a 5 turnover game against Auburn but in the same game he had 4 rebounds, 5 assists and 6 points so it's a bit of a wash.

In the first 12 games of the season he had 35 assists, 12 turnovers, 19 rebounds, 5 steals and 22 points in 142 minutes.

In the 2nd 12 games he had 27 assists, 8 turnovers, 13 rebounds, 4 steals and 30 points in 131 minutes.

His numbers in the rebound, assist and turnover categories are better per minute than the other two guards. He only averaged 13mpg over the season. I think it's pretty easy to see that if he were playing 22 mpg since day one the team and the other two guards would've been much better off.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Guess there is no chance that the work the coaching staff did with him all season helped him improve from a kid who couldn’t come close to finishing at the rim or making a free throw into what we saw in Brooklyn. Take a look at Sy’s game log when he played double digit minutes early in the year and get back to me.
Can’t win with some of these trolls. Either a player doesn’t develop and staff is incompetent judges of talent and wasted a scholarship, or they do develop and staff is blind and stubborn for not playing him 40 minutes from Day 1.

Nice post. You’re absolutely correct that Symir couldn’t make a layup to save himself. He couldn’t finish and rushed too much. He has steadily improved and you have to give the coaching staff credit. He’s now making tough, high floaters off the backboard and understands how to get the ball to his teammates. He was fabulous setting up shots for Cole yesterday. He showed great poise in the lane and didn’t rush any of his decisions. He’s not the same player that we saw in November. He was another coach on the floor yesterday. You also see our bigs getting offensive rebounds and kicking it back out to shooters. They didn’t do that earlier this year either. Give the staff some credit for the improvement of these players. You can’t compare Jessie this year to last year and Frank too. I read this morning that Jay Williams would have liked Amaker as Duke‘s next coach but many around the Duke program think Scheyer might be the next Brad Stevens. Who’s not to say that Red or GMAC might not be another young coaching star? You hear recruits say all the time how much they like GMAC and Red. Maybe they aren’t the reason recruits are not committing to SU.

 

[djcon57]

Nice post. You’re absolutely correct that Symir couldn’t make a layup to save himself. He couldn’t finish and rushed too much. He has steadily improved and you have to give the coaching staff credit. He’s now making tough, high floaters off the backboard and understands how to get the ball to his teammates. He was fabulous setting up shots for Cole yesterday. He showed great poise in the lane and didn’t rush any of his decisions. He’s not the same player that we saw in November. He was another coach on the floor yesterday. You also see our bigs getting offensive rebounds and kicking it back out to shooters. They didn’t do that earlier this year either. Give the staff some credit for the improvement of these players. You can’t compare Jessie this year to last year and Frank too. I read this morning that Jay Williams would have liked Amaker as Duke‘s next coach but many around the Duke program think Scheyer might be the next Brad Stevens. Who’s not to say that Red or GMAC might not be another young coaching star? You hear recruits say all the time how much they like GMAC and Red. Maybe they aren’t the reason recruits are not committing to SU.

So the reason we aren't getting top recruits is Jim?

 

[hoopsupstate]

So the reason we aren't getting top recruits is Jim?

I think it might be more than just that.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Dash, as you know...sometimes the light comes in in both coach and player.

The good news is we have a legit PG for next year. If Devo and or GMac can work on his outside jumper and get him to 30-33% at the three...that would be a start

but we still need a 3rd guard that is a proven commodity... and gosh... maybe even a 4th guard.

 

[djcon57]

People think transfers will just gel from day one. Or freshmen.

If we get a top shelf guy, yeah, probably. Or they'll score so much we won't notice anything else.

But guys like Symir, Cole, Benny, they're going to take some time. Feeling comfortable, finding out where they fit in to the roster. Some take longer than others. Not everyone can be Carmelo and Gerry.

Now that we've seen certain things from Symir, Jesse, Benny, Cole (if he comes back), and can move Joe to off guard, I'm looking forward to next year more than I was a few weeks ago.

And yes, I know this stuff never works out like I hope. But it's all I've got.

Plenty of freshman and transfers out there this year that didn't take until the end of the year.

If the zone is that difficult to figure out, then it's time to scrap it because this current environment isn't going away. To JB's credit, he alluded to switching it up...but we'll see

 

[Day2]

Another guy who the experts year decried as a reach and not worthy of a P5 scholarship that our incompetent staff settled for. Then when he develops into a potential all-ACC player the staff is stubborn for not playing him more early when he could barely lace up his Nikes.

I felt he was a good addition from the start and expected him to get more playing time.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

A few people mentioned Symir starting next season, I am not sure that is the best option. We will see who is surrounding him. This season he was a good fit given all the shooters on the team. If we don't have 3 shooters out there with Symir next season, his shooting issues get amplified. At least we know what we have now in Symir. It could be worse.

We really miss having a real PG. Look at who we had out there from 08-14. Then look at 15-22. It is night and day. We had some good players during that later stretch, but they were playing out of position. I don't think it is a coincidence that we struggled 15-22, in 06, and 07 during the regular season given that we did not have a true PG any of those years.

 

[Consigliere]

Interesting that you're still 'hanging' here at all.

Glad you're concerned. I'd miss you too.

 

[Millhouse]

Tiresome. You notice that kids sorta get better as the season goes on and they figure out what they're doing?

People make KR out to be Magic Johnson. Dude clocked 26 minutes last night. Still cannot shoot.

People make him out to be a better pg than joe Girard

We didn't need a shooter at pg

 

[AZOrange]

People make him out to be a better pg than joe Girard

We didn't need a shooter at pg

The problem was that JB recruited Joe and his kid played Joes position. So he had to find a position for Joe