Going to miss Jimmy when he is gone

[Alsacs]

Be very afraid.

Just look at the long list of once very good, brand-name programs that never caught up with their glory years.

SU could very easily become Wake Forest or BC.

GRoB was new blood for SU football.

This is BS.
Maryland hired a Kansas guy in Mark Turgeron who didn’t have East contacts.
Plus Gary Williams left nothing.

Georgetown made the 2008 Final Four. They had a lot of good regular seasons they just choked in the tournament. JT3 got fired for those chokes building up and them having 2 mediocre regular seasons in a row.
Georgetown lost to double digit seeds in the tournament 4 years in a row.

Who are these powers you are talking about?
BC fired Al Skinner prematurely and that set them back. Christian has them competitive again.

Wake was never a power. They had Duncan and then got Paul. Besides that they haven’t been a power.

Syracuse will be fine as long as they hire the right guy.

 

[djorange1989]

The larger fallout, substantially more than P in my view, was the powers that be in place at the time. The only game in town, can't put Field Turf in the Dome, laggards in keeping facilities current & updated, etc. played a more significant role. P didn't suddenly forget how to recruit, coach, etc., the playing field changed for his program, and not for the better, triggering the downward spiral. Although we have made many recent improvements and upgrades, the damage was done and we remain fighting an uphill battle.

Yep the administration was fine with us being a basketball school and did nothing to upgrade football.

 

[Eric15]

Be very afraid.

Just look at the long list of once very good, brand-name programs that never caught up with their glory years.

SU could very easily become Wake Forest or BC.

GRoB was new blood for SU football.

UCLA went to many Final Fours after Wooden, UNC has had tons of success post Dean Smith, Louisville has been fine post Denny Crum, UConn won a national title after Calhoun, Arizona has been fine post Lute Olson. I'll miss JB very much when his time is done but we'll be alright.

 

[HOFCeluck]

UCLA went to many Final Fours after Wooden, UNC has had tons of success post Dean Smith, Louisville has been fine post Denny Crum, UConn won a national title after Calhoun, Arizona has been fine post Lute Olson. I'll miss JB very much when his time is done but we'll be alright.

Probably wouldn’t have included Uconn.

Also UCLA, UNC, and Zona has to endure some difficult times after their HOF coaches and I wonder how much of the fan base could stomach, say, an 8-20 season.

 

[Alsacs]

Probably wouldn’t have included Uconn.

Also UCLA, UNC, and Zona has to endure some difficult times after their HOF coaches and I wonder how much of the fan base could stomach, say, an 8-20 season.

UNC went 8-20 because Bill Guthridge didn’t recruit. Dougherty was given players for one year Senior Brendan Haywood and Joe Forte.
Once that year cycled thru UNC had nothing. Dougherty recruited the players that Roy won the 2005 NC with.

8-20 is why Hopkins left. Our recruiting for next year didn’t pick up till Hop left. I wonder why? Who became more engaged?

 

[HOFCeluck]

UNC went 8-20 because Bill Guthridge didn’t recruit. Dougherty was given players for one year Senior Brendan Haywood and Joe Forte.
Once that year cycled thru UNC had nothing. Dougherty recruited the players that Roy won the 2005 NC with.

8-20 is why Hopkins left. Our recruiting for next year didn’t pick up till Hop left. I wonder why? Who became more engaged?

I know why UNC went 8-20.

The point is that all those programs went through rough periods for one reason or another.

 

[Alsacs]

I know why UNC went 8-20.

The point is that all those programs went through rough periods for one reason or another.

We were terrible in the nonconference last year and still went 8-5.

If we ever go below 8-5 in the nonconference it’s because the recruiting has gone thru the crapper and if that happens we have major problems.

If we go 6-12 in conference play 9-4 nonconference puts you at one under.500.

The fact is since the year 2000 we have made the NCAA tournament 12 times and missed it 5 times and this year we are on the bubble.

JB’s staple is that we go 18-13 in a down year not 13-18 but one year at 13-18 doesn’t kill a program if they are good most years.
Right now this program needs a drama free regular season and just be in the tournament by mid conference play.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We aren’t the only school replacing a coach the next few years.

 

[Townie72]

UCLA went to many Final Fours after Wooden, UNC has had tons of success post Dean Smith, Louisville has been fine post Denny Crum, UConn won a national title after Calhoun, Arizona has been fine post Lute Olson. I'll miss JB very much when his time is done but we'll be alright.[/QUOTE

Well as long as we have your personal guarantee. But Georgetown, ST Johns and Indiana keep floating around in my mind.

 

[Townie72]

We aren’t the only school replacing a coach the next few years.

This means lots of competition for the best candidates. All of which are crap shoots.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I like Dino Babers but I think most of us would like to see SU attract somebody more proven on a higher stage than Dino when it comes to replacing JB. Certainly the hoops program is more prominent than the football program and therefore would likely be able to draw from a wider and more substantial pool of candidates. But in order to attract some folks that market rate may be something that SU finds difficult to pay. That market rate is a whole helluva lot more than what Dino is pulling down.

Just for example, Gregg Marshall makes $3 million per at Wichita State in a deal he signed in 2015. Archie Miller makes close to $4 million per year at IU. Buzz Williams makes nearly $3 million per year at VaTech. I'm not suggesting any of these three are viable candidates for the SU job. But that's more than what JB makes right now. I'm not so confident SU will pay ANYBODY $3 million per year.

No thank you on all three. Neither of them are able to recruit kids to SU.

 

[Cusefan0307]

This means lots of competition for the best candidates. All of which are crap shoots.

I trust Wildhack will make the correct decision. This isn’t Doc Gross hiring an old buddy from USC.

 

[Alsacs]

Again Georgetown was good under JT3 went 346-193 .640 winning percentage.
He won 3 BE regular seasons and 1 conference tournament.
Went to 1 Final Four.
Was a top 4 seed in the NCAA tournament 6 times.
He choked in the tournament.
Georgetown wasn’t a crap program.

Indiana made the 2002 NC game with Knight’s recruits.
They have hired bad coaches in Kelvin Sampson and Tom Crean.
Sampson put the program in the crappier with NCAA violations.
Crean brought talent in. He was a top 4 seed in the NCAA 2 times and lost in the sweet 16 both times.

Indiana wasn’t a crap team.

St. John’s has been bad since Jarvis outside of 2010 and 2011. Lavin wasn’t a good coach.

Syracuse hasn’t been a super power during this time. The difference is when we aren’t good we are medicore. That is a credit to JB but stop this narratives.

 

[bpo57]

Boeheim makes over 2 million per season.
The last year IRS filings show he made at least 2.15 million.

Jim Boeheim, Scott Shafer were Syracuse University's highest-paid employees in 2015

I would say without question JB has given the university a hometown discount. JB has probably made almost as much from Nike than he has from SU. There are other ways to pay a coach. Pitino was getting paid from Adidas so the university of Louisville had to pay him less.

We will pay for basketball. If JB is making 2.15 now the next coach if we go on the market will probably make 3-3.5 million at least. Syracuse basketball being relevant is worth the extra million.

Picking the right guy is more important than salary. We will pay
Salary.

I'll believe it when I see it in terms of SU paying somebody a salary of $3 million +.

 

[bpo57]

No thank you on all three. Neither of them are able to recruit kids to SU.

I guess you glossed over the part where I said "I'm not suggesting any of these three guys are viable candidates for the SU job".

It was more about what the going rate is for "name" coaches.

 

[dollarbill44]

But we elevated our program above and beyond the others and maintained it. ESPN doesn't deserve credit for that. Plus CBS televised plenty of BE games back then, too.

I grew up watching big east games on Monday nights on channel 5 in Washington D.C. when it was an independent channel (i.e.pre-Fox ) in the early to mid 80s. ESPN definitely helped , but I think they created this narrative that they were critical to the popularity of the league. Big Monday was huge in the 90s, but the league was already established.

 

[SUFan44]

For the “be careful what you wish for” crowd:

How many programs have these things...

- A national title in the last 20 years
- A rabid fan base that regularly ranks #1 in the country in attendance
- Numerous NBA 1st Round Draft Picks over the last two decades
- A state of the art practice facility named after one of the top scorers in NBA history
- Membership in a premier college basketball conference

Sanctions have put a damper on one of the best runs in Syracuse basketball history. A couple recruiting misses and early defections that were unexpected have created a perfect storm.

And while anything can happen, I have a HARD time believing Syracuse is going to become Wake Forest or Boston College. Syracuse has a national brand and will continue to have one even when JB decides to let go.

 

[CousCuse]

Boeheim's not going anywhere for a long time. I think he will coach at SU until he is 80. Live with it.

 

[SUFan44]

I'll believe it when I see it in terms of SU paying somebody a salary of $3 million +.

Syracuse basketball is the golden goose. They will make sure it remains top quality.

 

[Waltdods]

Again Georgetown was good under JT3 went 346-193 .640 winning percentage.
He won 3 BE regular seasons and 1 conference tournament.
Went to 1 Final Four.
Was a top 4 seed in the NCAA tournament 6 times.
He choked in the tournament.
Georgetown wasn’t a crap program.

Indiana made the 2002 NC game with Knight’s recruits.
They have hired bad coaches in Kelvin Sampson and Tom Crean.
Sampson put the program in the crappier with NCAA violations.
Crean brought talent in. He was a top 4 seed in the NCAA 2 times and lost in the sweet 16 both times.

Indiana wasn’t a crap team.

St. John’s has been bad since Jarvis outside of 2010 and 2011. Lavin wasn’t a good coach.

On Georgetown you have of course skipped the first four years of the post-Thompson era, when the Hoyas were coached by the mustachioed fist, Craig escherick.

But more generally you are assuming the conclusion. Certainly Syracuse will be fine if they don’t hire bad coaches like kelvin Sampson bill guthridge Tom cream Craig escherick Steve lavin, etc. I don’t think anyone seriously contests this. The problem is that the people who hired kelvin Sampson were well-paid professionals who thought they were making the right decision, as were those who hired creen, guthridge, and the rest of the murderers row. There is just no reason, other than blind faith, to think Syracuse will be any better at this than these schools.

 

[bpo57]

Syracuse basketball is the golden goose. They will make sure it remains top quality.

That makes a ton of sense. Plus with the tv money and attendance money that SU generates it should be doable. But it's not their first instinct to be big spenders.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Jimmy has buddy coming as part of what should be a great class.

I’d say it’s a very good class - but I’d define ‘great’ as something that duke or uk typically pull in. Just need a little perspective that baz is not the second coming.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

[QUOTE="Eric15, post: 2497129, member: 676
But if next year is the 5th season in a row where we're hovering around the bubble, I would prefer we go in a new direction with new blood. We don't need to be afraid of life after JB.[/QUOTE]
This baffles me. Do you seriously not care what the reason might be for the 5th year of a bubble?

I could understand the sentiment and doubt that was around last April. Program looked in possible decline. Poor season by SU standards and left out of the NCAAT. And the incoming class didn't seem to be highly sought after.

But now the statement of wanting new blood just seems like hater speak because the state of the future of the program is extremely bright. There are good program kids - players who have been here multiple years or who have sat out a year to play here, like Frank, PC, Moyer, and Hughes. With Buddy on the way. No more reliance on the grad transfers. And recruiting has added traditional studs of Baz and Carey.

We don't need to be afraid of life after JB. But we should also be rejoicing in having JB here now. IMO, there is no better coach to bring us back to the level we were at before. And right now all indicators are showing JB has righted the ship.

 

[Alsacs]

On Georgetown you have of course skipped the first four years of the post-Thompson era, when the Hoyas were coached by the mustachioed fist, Craig escherick.

But more generally you are assuming the conclusion. Certainly Syracuse will be fine if they don’t hire bad coaches like kelvin Sampson bill guthridge Tom cream Craig escherick Steve lavin, etc. I don’t think anyone seriously contests this. The problem is that the people who hired kelvin Sampson were well-paid professionals who thought they were making the right decision, as were those who hired creen, guthridge, and the rest of the murderers row. There is just no reason, other than blind faith, to think Syracuse will be any better at this than these schools.

Townie wants to act like Georgetown has become a shell of itself since Thompson Senior.
The truth is Georgetown fell down from 1990 onward while JT was still there.
Ewing made them the top team in college basketball and then they had good years thru 1989 and then the program became not as dominant.

JT3 brought them back. They were top 4 seeds 6 times during his tenure as HC. His teams choked in the tournament and that is why he lost his job. Again Townie acts like Georgetown has become UNLV or DePaul when the truth is they weren’t bad. I would take Syracuse results but the truth is we miss the tournament too much for how we perceive our program.

Indiana hired Sampson who was successful at Oklahoma. He cheated that is what killed that program till
Crean brought it back. Crean brought talent but couldn’t coach that talent well.

Indiana has been passed by Michigan State in the Big Ten hierarchy.

With our facilities, fanbase, and location I am confident Syracuse will be fine. Again we miss the tournament 2-3 times a decade.
That isn’t a standard that should be that difficult for the next HC to achieve.
7 appearances per decade.

 

[Waltdods]

I’d say it’s a very good class - but I’d define ‘great’ as something that duke or uk typically pull in. Just need a little perspective that baz is not the second coming.

Syracuse has had maybe one class in its history that would qualify as “great” by this definition (1986). That probably ties Syracuse for after sixth all time after duke unc Kansas UCLA and Kentucky. If that’s what you want, you are going to be forever disappointed.