Going to miss Jimmy when he is gone

[TODDNTEXAS]

James Arthur Boeheim is Central New York. He was born here, raised here, went to college here, played at SU and coached the remainder of his life here up to now. He is part of the fabric of who we all are that have experienced, if not the same path, a very similar path. CNY is in our DNA and JAB is in there too. When the time comes, through whatever mechanism, it will be like extracting a limb from our body. It can never be replaced. It will not be a “breath of fresh air” as some may say. It will be saying fair well to a member of our family. The heart that Jim has for this region and it’s people cannot be overstated. Who his age isn’t a little curmudgeonly? Love him while he remains because whoever takes the reigns will have a LOT of work to do to win the hearts of the community and fan base. Just winning won’t do both.

 

[bpo57]

CBS broadcasts were not national. They were regional.

Some were national and some were regional but huge portions of SU's recruiting territorial base saw those games on CBS,

ESPN's BE games on weeknights were on at 4 pm on the west coast. Just saying that ESPN was not the only one that televised these games. Hell in NY Big east games in the early days were on cable outlets like WOR as I recall.

 

[bpo57]

But that's not what you said originally.

You said ESPN didn't deserve any of the credit.

And CBS did have games and we were occasionally on TV as the under-card game against Penn State.

Penn State? Are u talking basketball?

 

[bpo57]

ESPN didn't elevate every big east program, only those with great coaches in place. UConn wallowed until it hired JC.

BC and PC have been rather spotty too. SHU as well.

 

[br801]

What he’s doing this season is a borderline miracle. We’re a few bounces away from being in the same position as Clemson.

The thing is, no one who has been paying attention should be surprised that he has this team, with all the injuries and defections, in this position.

 

[Eric15]

This is literally the logic that led to Greg Robinson.

Disagree. We have to be able to compartmentalize firing Coach P and hiring GRob. Just because GRob was the wrong hire doesn't mean firing Coach P wasn't the correct decision.

(And to be clear, I think Coach P was a fantastic coach for us, and better than Coach Mac.)

 

[bpo57]

The thing is, no one who has been paying attention should be surprised that he has this team, with all the injuries and defections, in this position.

I think the JB critics (I don't include myself in that camp btw) might argue that JB is responsible for why we are in this position, ie NCAA sanctions, recruiting shortfalls etc. I think these things are cyclical and it's very difficult to be near the top of the heap year in and year out.

 

[bpo57]

Well, good coaches need good players. And that's the door ESPN opened.

TV exposure helped for sure as did the formation of the BE. But just a friendly reminder, SU was ranked # 1 in the country in 1980 before we ever played a game on ESPN.

 

[Eric15]

I think JB is arguably the most important citizen in modern Syracuse history, and they should unveil a statue of him on campus the year after he retires.

But if next year is the 5th season in a row where we're hovering around the bubble, I would prefer we go in a new direction with new blood. We don't need to be afraid of life after JB.

 

[Waltdods]

Disagree. We have to be able to compartmentalize firing Coach P and hiring GRob. Just because GRob was the wrong hire doesn't mean firing Coach P wasn't the correct decision.

I kind of agree with this.

But the impulse behind a lot of the anti-pasqualoni stuff (i count myself here) was a sort of naive optimism that because Syracuse had been good before it should be good now. Being an above-average coach (which pp probably was) is, by definition, hard. The likelihood of getting someone better isn’t all that high, and the chance of a disaster is at least as high as the chance of a savior.

On the basketball side, boeheim is much better than above average. “Shaking it up” almost certainly means getting worse.

 

[bpo57]

I think JB is arguably the most important citizen in modern Syracuse history, and they should unveil a statue of him on campus the year after he retires.

But if next year is the 5th season in a row where we're hovering around the bubble, I would prefer we go in a new direction with new blood. We don't need to be afraid of life after JB.

My fear is that SU will be unwilling to dole out the coin when it comes to replacing JB. And to attract a proven coach we are going to have to loosen the purse strings.

 

[Alsacs]

My fear is that SU will be unwilling to dole out the coin when it comes to replacing JB. And to attract a proven coach we are going to have to loosen the purse strings.

Babers got market rate.
SU administration would be stupid not to pay market rate for basketball.

JB built the program but the program will survive the future.
No doubt what Dasher said was true the next 42 years won’t be as good as the previous 42 but the program will be fine.

It’s not like we are top 25 every year and make the tournament every year.
The staple of SU is our bad is medicore nationally.

 

[Caboose]

Disagree. We have to be able to compartmentalize firing Coach P and hiring GRob. Just because GRob was the wrong hire doesn't mean firing Coach P wasn't the correct decision.

(And to be clear, I think Coach P was a fantastic coach for us, and better than Coach Mac.)

The recruiting falloff was what did him in. Missed out on a few kids that would have turned the program around. Michael Vick to name one.

 

[newmexicuse]

jimmy is an era unto himself. the body of work of that era will never be duplicated at the cuse.

we have seen it both ways when the era of a coach winds down. sometimes it winds down ungracefully. other times it is the successor that fails to continue the success.

i do not believe that any poster on this forum is unappreciative of jimmys body of work, but that does not mean that there cannot be legitimate debate as to how it will end and when it should end.

imho, jimmy should go out on top of his own free will. i hope he can get that done.

jimmy has buddy coming as part of what should be a great class. no way jimmy leaves with buddy here. i fully expect four or five more years of jimmy, and i also fully expect greater success during those years than we have had in the recent past.

 

[MikeSU02]

My Dad who is 72, my uncle mid 60s and my next door neighbor late 50s all can't wait for Jim to retire.

For some reason people think we may have more championships with a different coach. I may not completely disagree for specific in game coaching but Jim (with the help of Pearl and ESPN) built this program. His consistency cannot be questioned and this year he has a team on the bubble that shouldn't be close.

He is a top ten coach all time and people need to be careful what the wish for (see Pitt and UConn). When he is gone we will not be the same. He is a geeky student of the game and is extremely intelligent and watches hours of basketball. His Demeanor and curmudgeon attitude annoys me sometimes but he earned that right.

I understand complaining about things you wish a coach would change but those of you who want him gone are nuts

I gave you a like because I appreciate the well-reasoned argument. You have some great points.

Here is what I'll say that I support:

• Yes, we may have some more titles with a different coach, but we may have also done much, much worse if JB wasn't our coach.
• I'd quibble with top 10 of all time (assuming you mean in college), but it's definitely a fair argument.
• His staying at one school for this long will likely never be replicated and that should be appreciated.
• He has earned his HOF status. No doubt.
• With a missed shot in '87 and AO not being injured, he could have 1-2 more titles and people would be arguing he is a top 3 college coach of all time.

Here is what concerns me:

• Everything he has accomplished is fantastic, but it doesn't assure it will be that way in the future.
• His being a curmudgeon is 1) going into an echo chamber with social media and other outlets and 2) is starting to become personal from time to time in calling out players. While you could probably get away with that in the past, I don't know if that flies now.
• "but those of you who want him gone are nuts" - The issue is we have been below standards (granted, our standards are high because of JB) for a few years now and we lost our coach-on-waiting. We have all ex players as assistant coaches. If we wait until it's too late, it could set us back years.
• We have been on probation twice. I don't think we have a third coming, but with the FBI investigation, JB is one more hit away from having to be gone. He has not run a squeaky clean program. I DO NOT THINK ANY TOP PROGRAM HAS. But we got caught. Twice.

Here is my final thought about the current status: specific to this year's team, we are doing well considering the lack of players right now. However, this is JB's program. We got to this predicament in the first place because of him. He is the CEO. He should get the credit, but he has to own the problems.

Here is what I think will happen: I don't think JB is leaving unless there is a third probation or there are health issues. I truly don't. I think he's on that sideline until one of those two things, whether I agree with it or not.

 

[Cusefan0307]

There’s zero excuse to not win 25 games next year.

 

[bpo57]

Babers got market rate.
SU administration would be stupid not to pay market rate for basketball.

JB built the program but the program will survive the future.
No doubt what Dasher said was true the next 42 years won’t be as good as the previous 42 but the program will be fine.

It’s not like we are top 25 every year and make the tournament every year.
The staple of SU is our bad is medicore nationally.

I like Dino Babers but I think most of us would like to see SU attract somebody more proven on a higher stage than Dino when it comes to replacing JB. Certainly the hoops program is more prominent than the football program and therefore would likely be able to draw from a wider and more substantial pool of candidates. But in order to attract some folks that market rate may be something that SU finds difficult to pay. That market rate is a whole helluva lot more than what Dino is pulling down.

Just for example, Gregg Marshall makes $3 million per at Wichita State in a deal he signed in 2015. Archie Miller makes close to $4 million per year at IU. Buzz Williams makes nearly $3 million per year at VaTech. I'm not suggesting any of these three are viable candidates for the SU job. But that's more than what JB makes right now. I'm not so confident SU will pay ANYBODY $3 million per year.

 

[Sherman20]

But we elevated our program above and beyond the others and maintained it. ESPN doesn't deserve credit for that. Plus CBS televised plenty of BE games back then, too.

ESPN was critical, but so was JB, the Big East affiliation and the Dome. Pearl, too. All of these things are key factors. JB would agree with all of it.

 

[Alsacs]

I like Dino Babers but I think most of us would like to see SU attract somebody more proven on a higher stage than Dino when it comes to replacing JB. Certainly the hoops program is more prominent than the football program and therefore would likely be able to draw from a wider and more substantial pool of candidates. But in order to attract some folks that market rate may be something that SU finds difficult to pay. That market rate is a whole helluva lot more than what Dino is pulling down.

Just for example, Gregg Marshall makes $3 million per at Wichita State in a deal he signed in 2015. Archie Miller makes close to $4 million per year at IU. Buzz Williams makes nearly $3 million per year at VaTech. I'm not suggesting any of these three are viable candidates for the SU job. But that's more than what JB makes right now. I'm not so confident SU will pay ANYBODY $3 million per year.

Boeheim makes over 2 million per season.
The last year IRS filings show he made at least 2.15 million.

Jim Boeheim, Scott Shafer were Syracuse University's highest-paid employees in 2015

I would say without question JB has given the university a hometown discount. JB has probably made almost as much from Nike than he has from SU. There are other ways to pay a coach. Pitino was getting paid from Adidas so the university of Louisville had to pay him less.

We will pay for basketball. If JB is making 2.15 now the next coach if we go on the market will probably make 3-3.5 million at least. Syracuse basketball being relevant is worth the extra million.

Picking the right guy is more important than salary. We will pay
Salary.

 

[whobut03]

we're going to pay up. not concerned about that in the slightest.

 

[clayman32]

This is literally the logic that led to Greg Robinson.

It's also the logic that led to Dabo Swinney

 

[FrancoPizza]

Just because there might be a regression with the next hire does not mean you ride the current regime to the grave. Just because grob was a horrible hire doesn’t mean sticking with coach p was the answer.

 

[orangecuse]

The recruiting falloff was what did him in. Missed out on a few kids that would have turned the program around. Michael Vick to name one.

The larger fallout, substantially more than P in my view, was the powers that be in place at the time. The only game in town, can't put Field Turf in the Dome, laggards in keeping facilities current & updated, etc. played a more significant role. P didn't suddenly forget how to recruit, coach, etc., the playing field changed for his program, and not for the better, triggering the downward spiral. Although we have made many recent improvements and upgrades, the damage was done and we remain fighting an uphill battle.

 

[Townie72]

I think JB is arguably the most important citizen in modern Syracuse history, and they should unveil a statue of him on campus the year after he retires.

But if next year is the 5th season in a row where we're hovering around the bubble, I would prefer we go in a new direction with new blood. We don't need to be afraid of life after JB.

Be very afraid.

Just look at the long list of once very good, brand-name programs that never caught up with their glory years.

SU could very easily become Wake Forest or BC.

GRoB was new blood for SU football.

 

[djorange1989]

When JB goes, back up the brink’s truck and do whatever you can to hire Jay Wright. Hey I can dream