Good night B1G...

[bpo57]

The committee by-law says #1 point of emphasis is conference title game champion. Number one. That’s why people are putting stock in it.

That's one of many criteria to putting in the four best teams in the country. That's their first objective, not that you won your conference title. See Penn State 2016.

 

[bpo57]

ND has never played an FCS team, ever.

Is the "13th data point" that important if the conference champ played an FCS team as part of its thirteen games??

Good point. Plenty of examples of conference champs playing FCS opponents. Alabama has that tough game coming up against Mercer in two weeks.

 

[TheCusian]

ND has never played an FCS team, ever.

Is the "13th data point" that important if the conference champ played an FCS team as part of its thirteen games??

Ahh - forgot. Let’s trade FCS for “other cupcake”

It’s not about the 13th data point. If you’re ND you need your schedule to be better at 12 games than a team with 13 (ending with a really good win vs a top 25 team). If you want to throw out the worst win of each and compare 11 games to 11+conf champ game we can - but I’d think it’s another way ND is putting itself at a disadvantage.

For example - throw out Miami OH for ND and The Citadel for Clemson. Looks like a much harder schedule for ND. Until you add in a probable game vs Miami (which in this scenario you’d have a win over) in the conference championship game for Clemson. It starts to be closer quality wins wise - and they still played one more game.

This year, it’s working out. The teams on your schedule are good and may be enough to push past another 1 loss conference champ. But if they really cared, you drop the Mac game for one more vs a P5 conf Team.

 

[TheCusian]

Some logic to what you say but it's trumped by the fact that they would have (at 11-1) piled up more top 15 wins than anybody else out there. Their full body of work would still be solidly better than the competition despite not playing that extra game. And they didn't just win those games, they crushed their opponents. Remember what the committee said last year - "game control". Did you dominate your opponent?

Remember that the teams ND is getting compared to generally have squashed their opponents too. Lots of the teams on ND schedule are not as well thought of this week as they were last.

I do also think that the conf championship game being the final weekend before the committee decides plays a role too. Resounding wins over top 15 teams to win your conference vs a bye week?

 

[TheCusian]

Btw ND plays a high quality schedule just about every year so I don't think luck has much to do with it.

It matters more to ND than to an ACC conference champ. If USC is down, that could be *the* defining missing ingredient. Margin for error is way higher for ND.

 

[Alsacs]

Ahh - forgot. Let’s trade FCS for “other cupcake”

It’s not about the 13th data point. If you’re ND you need your schedule to be better at 12 games than a team with 13 (ending with a really good win vs a top 25 team). If you want to throw out the worst win of each and compare 11 games to 11+conf champ game we can - but I’d think it’s another way ND is putting itself at a disadvantage.

For example - throw out Miami OH for ND and The Citadel for Clemson. Looks like a much harder schedule for ND. Until you add in a probable game vs Miami (which in this scenario you’d have a win over) in the conference championship game for Clemson. It starts to be closer quality wins wise - and they still played one more game.

This year, it’s working out. The teams on your schedule are good and may be enough to push past another 1 loss conference champ. But if they really cared, you drop the Mac game for one more vs a P5 conf Team.

Notre Dame only plays 9 P5 teams on their schedule this year without a 13th game that will be the fewest of any team in the top 10.
So their goes they don’t play FCS argument.

 

[TerryD]

Remember that the teams ND is getting compared to generally have squashed their opponents too. Lots of the teams on ND schedule are not as well thought of this week as they were last.

I do also think that the conf championship game being the final weekend before the committee decides plays a role too. Resounding wins over top 15 teams to win your conference vs a bye week?

Here is the current playoff committee rankings. I think that ND's opponents are still "well thought of" :

1. Georgia
2. Alabama
3. Notre Dame
4. Clemson
5. Oklahoma
6. TCU
7. Miami, FL
8. Wisconsin
9. Washington
10. Auburn
11. USC
12. Michigan State
13. Ohio State
14. Penn State
15. Oklahoma State
16. Mississippi State
17. Virginia Tech
18. UCF
19. Washington State
20. Iowa
21. Iowa State
22. Memphis
23. NC State
24. LSU
25. Northwestern

No other team has played and beaten (soundly) as many teams in the latest CFP Poll than Notre Dame.

I think that you are casting a wide search to come up with reasons to exclude ND. No sale.

 

[HtownOrange]

It's simple. Conference fans want ND in a conference just like their team. ND fans don't want a conference affiliation. ND is exercising their free choice to remain Indy. Collectivists (football, not political/economical) demand that every team be in the collective. As a Syracuse fan, I loved our old schedules when the Orangemen were an Indy. We could laugh at the B1G teams when they played Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Northwestern and only UM and tOSU were respectable. Few teams played the likes of our schedules back then. I understand why ND fans want to remain Indy. They have their opponents they want to play (Navy, Stanford, USC)

People need to get over the ACC tie-in. ND historically has averaged about 5 games along the east coast (sometimes more, sometimes less). As ND is a member in all other sports (hockey is excused because there is no conference supported hockey league), ND had no issue scheduling a deal with the ACC for five games annually. Plus, they still get Pitt every third year, same with BC (though not a real historical rivalry, still a popular game ). They also get the UM games back on the slate. Throw in other games against the remaining ACC and they get what they want - east coast exposure, solo TV deal, remain Indy, no more commitment than they were already averaging. The tie-in is a good deal for both sides. I would prefer ND in the conference, but it is a preference. I respect the fact that ND wants to remain an Indy. So long as ND does not care as much about championships as conference teams do, then they will remain Indy.

ND gets in at 11-1. At 10-2, they are discussed as a playoff team, especially if the loss is to UM in a close game.

Wiscy must run the table. Three tough games in four, not likely as they have not been fully tested an it is late in the season to recover from mistakes/losses.

Auburn gets dropped from the discussion by season end as they will lose to Alabama (can any of us not be bigger Bama fans during that game?). Plus, I don't think they can beat Bama and Georgia in this season.

Oklahoma is too weak defensively to win out in the playoffs. In their defense, they have played some high scoring potent defenses and they will score a lot of points, just not sure they can beat Clemson, Bama, ND, Miami or Georgia in the playoffs. They already did well enough against the B1G and would likely win against the PAC champ.

 

[Alsacs]

It's simple. Conference fans want ND in a conference just like their team. ND fans don't want a conference affiliation. ND is exercising their free choice to remain Indy. Collectivists (football, not political/economical) demand that every team be in the collective. As a Syracuse fan, I loved our old schedules when the Orangemen were an Indy. We could laugh at the B1G teams when they played Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Northwestern and only UM and tOSU were respectable. Few teams played the likes of our schedules back then. I understand why ND fans want to remain Indy. They have their opponents they want to play (Navy, Stanford, USC)

People need to get over the ACC tie-in. ND historically has averaged about 5 games along the east coast (sometimes more, sometimes less). As ND is a member in all other sports (hockey is excused because there is no conference supported hockey league), ND had no issue scheduling a deal with the ACC for five games annually. Plus, they still get Pitt every third year, same with BC (though not a real historical rivalry, still a popular game ). They also get the UM games back on the slate. Throw in other games against the remaining ACC and they get what they want - east coast exposure, solo TV deal, remain Indy, no more commitment than they were already averaging. The tie-in is a good deal for both sides. I would prefer ND in the conference, but it is a preference. I respect the fact that ND wants to remain an Indy. So long as ND does not care as much about championships as conference teams do, then they will remain Indy.

ND gets in at 11-1. At 10-2, they are discussed as a playoff team, especially if the loss is to UM in a close game.

Wiscy must run the table. Three tough games in four, not likely as they have not been fully tested an it is late in the season to recover from mistakes/losses.

Auburn gets dropped from the discussion by season end as they will lose to Alabama (can any of us not be bigger Bama fans during that game?). Plus, I don't think they can beat Bama and Georgia in this season.

Oklahoma is too weak defensively to win out in the playoffs. In their defense, they have played some high scoring potent defenses and they will score a lot of points, just not sure they can beat Clemson, Bama, ND, Miami or Georgia in the playoffs. They already did well enough against the B1G and would likely win against the PAC champ.

Good point but I will say I don’t want Notre Dame in the ACC.
I don’t like their fanbase and the revenue the conference generates is good enough.

The ND fanbase is the most arrogant in the nation bar none. They aren’t evil like Penn State but the fanbase blows.

 

[cuse10]

It's simple. Conference fans want ND in a conference just like their team. ND fans don't want a conference affiliation. ND is exercising their free choice to remain Indy. Collectivists (football, not political/economical) demand that every team be in the collective. As a Syracuse fan, I loved our old schedules when the Orangemen were an Indy. We could laugh at the B1G teams when they played Indiana, Illinois, Purdue, Northwestern and only UM and tOSU were respectable. Few teams played the likes of our schedules back then. I understand why ND fans want to remain Indy. They have their opponents they want to play (Navy, Stanford, USC)

People need to get over the ACC tie-in. ND historically has averaged about 5 games along the east coast (sometimes more, sometimes less). As ND is a member in all other sports (hockey is excused because there is no conference supported hockey league), ND had no issue scheduling a deal with the ACC for five games annually. Plus, they still get Pitt every third year, same with BC (though not a real historical rivalry, still a popular game ). They also get the UM games back on the slate. Throw in other games against the remaining ACC and they get what they want - east coast exposure, solo TV deal, remain Indy, no more commitment than they were already averaging. The tie-in is a good deal for both sides. I would prefer ND in the conference, but it is a preference. I respect the fact that ND wants to remain an Indy. So long as ND does not care as much about championships as conference teams do, then they will remain Indy.

ND gets in at 11-1. At 10-2, they are discussed as a playoff team, especially if the loss is to UM in a close game.

Wiscy must run the table. Three tough games in four, not likely as they have not been fully tested an it is late in the season to recover from mistakes/losses.

Auburn gets dropped from the discussion by season end as they will lose to Alabama (can any of us not be bigger Bama fans during that game?). Plus, I don't think they can beat Bama and Georgia in this season.

Oklahoma is too weak defensively to win out in the playoffs. In their defense, they have played some high scoring potent defenses and they will score a lot of points, just not sure they can beat Clemson, Bama, ND, Miami or Georgia in the playoffs. They already did well enough against the B1G and would likely win against the PAC champ.

I don't think that Auburn/Bama game is a lock for Alabama. When Malzahn doesn't get in his own way (cough cough LSU), Auburn is a damn good team. This Bama squad is limping to the finish line and doesn't look as dominant as they have in years past. Crushing an awful Tennessee team doesn't count.

 

[TheCusian]

Here is the current playoff committee rankings. I think that ND's opponents are still "well thought of" :

1. Georgia
2. Alabama
3. Notre Dame
4. Clemson
5. Oklahoma
6. TCU
7. Miami, FL
8. Wisconsin
9. Washington
10. Auburn
11. USC
12. Michigan State
13. Ohio State
14. Penn State
15. Oklahoma State
16. Mississippi State
17. Virginia Tech
18. UCF
19. Washington State
20. Iowa
21. Iowa State
22. Memphis
23. NC State
24. LSU
25. Northwestern

No other team has played and beaten (soundly) as many teams in the latest CFP Poll than Notre Dame.

I think that you are casting a wide search to come up with reasons to exclude ND. No sale.

Not at all. I've said earlier in the thread : "This year, it’s working out. The teams on your schedule are good and may be enough to push past another 1 loss conference champ."

But you need to know the teams your competing with will all have a similar record with similar wins. If it's a beauty contest and you don't play a conference champ (1 less game) - it will be up to the committee. Maybe it works out - but you can't argue that playing an extra game vs the top 25 wouldn't be helpful.

 

[TheCusian]

I don't think that Auburn/Bama game is a lock for Alabama. When Malzahn doesn't get in his own way (cough cough LSU), Auburn is a damn good team. This Bama squad is limping to the finish line and doesn't look as dominant as they have in years past. Crushing an awful Tennessee team doesn't count.

if they lose to Auburn, but then beat an undefeated Georgia in the SEC title game - I'd bet the committee puts two SEC teams in.

 

[bpo57]

Remember that the teams ND is getting compared to generally have squashed their opponents too. Lots of the teams on ND schedule are not as well thought of this week as they were last.

I do also think that the conf championship game being the final weekend before the committee decides plays a role too. Resounding wins over top 15 teams to win your conference vs a bye week?

Really? Michigan State and USC both moved up in the polls. BC crushed FSU in their last game. ND ran for 500+ yards against BC. NC State played Clemson plenty tough. Georgia is still rollin'. Who are these teams you speak of?

Show me some teams that have more quality wins than ND.

 

[bpo57]

Ahh - forgot. Let’s trade FCS for “other cupcake”

It’s not about the 13th data point. If you’re ND you need your schedule to be better at 12 games than a team with 13 (ending with a really good win vs a top 25 team). If you want to throw out the worst win of each and compare 11 games to 11+conf champ game we can - but I’d think it’s another way ND is putting itself at a disadvantage.

For example - throw out Miami OH for ND and The Citadel for Clemson. Looks like a much harder schedule for ND. Until you add in a probable game vs Miami (which in this scenario you’d have a win over) in the conference championship game for Clemson. It starts to be closer quality wins wise - and they still played one more game.

This year, it’s working out. The teams on your schedule are good and may be enough to push past another 1 loss conference champ. But if they really cared, you drop the Mac game for one more vs a P5 conf Team.

ND has home and homes coming up with Mich, Wisc and Ohio State. They play USC and Stanford every year along with the five ACC teams yet somehow you think they need to beef up their schedule. Seriously?

 

[Briancuse]

Barring the record, Michigan is not a good team. This is an instance in which numbers lie and do not tell the story. They've managed to win games, but they are not competent team.

Might not be as good as last year, but still a talented team, he should have started Peters from the get go, the kid can play. I think Michigan beats Wisc in Madison.

 

[Alsacs]

Really? Michigan State and USC both moved up in the polls. BC crushed FSU in their last game. ND ran for 500+ yards against BC. NC State played Clemson plenty tough. Georgia is still rollin'. Who are these teams you speak of?

Show me some teams that have more quality wins than ND.

USC is the most overrated team in the poll by far.
Their best wins are against Texas, Arizona, Stanford.

They aren’t likely to win out.

Michigan State will shall see they have Ohio State. They are good but they are probably at their high point now.
Notre Dame without a Conference title game will play only 9 P5 teams that will be the fewest of any CFB playoff contender.

 

[bpo57]

Notre Dame only plays 9 P5 teams on their schedule this year without a 13th game that will be the fewest of any team in the top 10.
So their goes they don’t play FCS argument.

If that's your way of somehow saying they play a lesser schedule than the other top ten teams then that is hilarious. Show me some top ten teams that play a stronger schedule. Btw two of the non p5s (Navy and Temple) have spent some time in the top 25 the last two years.

 

[Briancuse]

if they lose to Auburn, but then beat an undefeated Georgia in the SEC title game - I'd bet the committee puts two SEC teams in.

Esp if that loser is Uga, the win at Nd will hold a huge weight.

 

[Alsacs]

If that's your way of somehow saying they play a lesser schedule than the other top ten teams then that is hilarious. Show me some top ten teams that play a stronger schedule. Btw two of the non p5s (Navy and Temple) have spent some time in the top 25 the last two years.

Temple is a flash in a pan and you know it. They were a senior laden team last year.
Navy is okay.
They still only play 9 P5 teams.

The ND schedule is not special.

They play some good teams like all teams in P5 teams do.

 

[bpo57]

Not at all. I've said earlier in the thread : "This year, it’s working out. The teams on your schedule are good and may be enough to push past another 1 loss conference champ."

But you need to know the teams your competing with will all have a similar record with similar wins. If it's a beauty contest and you don't play a conference champ (1 less game) - it will be up to the committee. Maybe it works out - but you can't argue that playing an extra game vs the top 25 wouldn't be helpful.

Nope. You said their opponents were not as well thought of as they were in the previous week. Which ones?

 

[bpo57]

if they lose to Auburn, but then beat an undefeated Georgia in the SEC title game - I'd bet the committee puts two SEC teams in.

Entirely possible. And I 'd much rather see that then a bogus Wisconsin getting in.

 

[bpo57]

Temple is a flash in a pan and you know it. They were a senior laden team last year.
Navy is okay.
They still only play 9 P5 teams.

The ND schedule is not special.

They play some good teams like all teams in P5 teams do.

Still waiting to see those teams that play tougher schedules. Don't worry, further above in the thread you revealed your logic re ND. At least u were being honest.

 

[Alsacs]

Still waiting to see those teams that play tougher schedules. Don't worry, further above in the thread you revealed your logic re ND. At least u were being honest.

It would make sense your a ND fan.

They will have played 9 P5 teams total.


Georgia played Notre Dame, Georgis Tech and 8 SEC teams
Clemson played Auburn, South Carolina and 8 ACC teams.
Oklahoma played Ohio State and 9 Big XII teams.
TCU played Arkansas and 9 Big XII teams.
These teams will also Have to play conference title games for 11 P5 games.

11 vs. 9 this stuff matters but you
Will just spin and defend.

 

[bpo57]

Temple is a flash in a pan and you know it. They were a senior laden team last year.
Navy is okay.
They still only play 9 P5 teams.

The ND schedule is not special.

They play some good teams like all teams in P5 teams do.

Navy has been in the top 25 a lot more than they have been out of it over the last five years.

 

[bpo57]

It would make sense your a ND fan.

They will have played 9 P5 teams total.


Georgia played Notre Dame, Georgis Tech and 8 SEC teams
Clemson played Auburn, South Carolina and 8 ACC teams.
Oklahoma played Ohio State and 9 Big XII teams.
TCU played Arkansas and 9 Big XII teams.
These teams will also Have to play conference title games for 11 P5 games.

11 vs. 9 this stuff matters but you
Will just spin and defend.

It makes sense you're a Pats fan.

That is some riveting analysis you set forth there. lol

The SEC by and large sucks this year. So you're impressed by Arkansas this year? OU is explosive for sure but a lot of those Big XII teams play defense like it's flag football.

None of those four teams you mention play a tougher schedule than ND this year. Some may be comparable but none of them are clearly better.