Goodbye Aluminum seats

[syracuse95]

Sorry I was wrong about the number of seats in a row. Was told that by someone who should know this.

We are definitely currently at 18 inches.

That makes the rows 612 inches.

Aisle expansion will make the rows 608 inches.

Given that, this is what happens when you make the seats wider...

Seat Width	18	19	19.5	20	20.5	21
Seats per Row	34	32	31.17 (31)	30.4 (30)	29.7 (29)	29.0 (29)
% Reduction	0	5.9	8.8	11.8	14.7	14.7

To get a reduction of around 10%-10.5%, it looks like you need a mix of some sections at 19.5 and some at 21 (with most at 19.5).

You can fit 29 seats with a width of 21 inches in our rows so I don't know why anyone would go with 20.5.

Not sure about the seat makeup. All I have heard is that they are plastic. I would assume if they were padded, we would have heard that by now.

Agree, I would have preferred no arm rests. Maybe this is an ADA requirement. I hope whatever we have chosen impacts the width of the seats as minimally as possible.

Since most people buy tickets in even numbered groups, I would think that having an odd number of seats in every row would be problematic.

 

[AAM62]

Why is the reduction in capacity a discussion? Football draws a pathetic number and how much would the basketball capacity really be impacted? I think the reduction would be a good thing.

 

[sutomcat]

Any word on how universal these seats will be? It would be nice if A level was 21.5, B at 21, C at 20, everyone else at 19.5.

Not at this time. I am sure more info will be forthcoming down the road.

 

[sutomcat]

Is it possible we get armrests that flip up like on many airline seats?

FYI Most airline seats are <18inches with flip up arm rests for comparison

I can say that I have looked at a number of stadium seat manufacturer web sites. Some have this. Some do not.

No idea what is planned for us.

But it looks like most do not.

 

[xc84]

Why is the reduction in capacity a discussion? Football draws a pathetic number and how much would the basketball capacity really be impacted? I think the reduction would be a good thing.

I think it is a discussion because there will be a reduction. This will affect fans who have season tickets. I don't think most are complaining... just trying to figure the impact.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Why is the reduction in capacity a discussion? Football draws a pathetic number and how much would the basketball capacity really be impacted? I think the reduction would be a good thing.

We probably only need 42k for football which would still allow a max of 30k+ for BBall. Going below that number is too low. So we can only afford to lose 12.5% max.

 

[AAM62]

We probably only need 42k for football which would still allow a max of 30k+ for BBall. Going below that number is too low. So we can only afford to lose 12.5% max.

I think that makes sense

 

[upperdeck]

you could install the seats in the 70%of the dome that wouldnt have an effect on bball seating..

 

[Chris02M]

im thinking they will do wider seats in the higher doner areas with the majority getting the same slightly smaller seats

 

[Cusefan69]

Gotta believe that some decisions are yet to be made. Based on some of the discussion points in this thread I would think that linkages to donor level, seat widths, etc would still be in the discussion phase internally. There are "pros and cons" to certain decisions that may need to go through a few "decision gates". I would think that they would have reached out to a few places who went through similar changes to get some lessons learned at a minimum because invariably something will unfortunately always be overlooked. Also as a season tickets holder I am less fussed about seat colors and care more about seat width...seat tilt (is seat back straight or slightly tilted backwards), leg room, etc. I would rather have less seating if it somehow results in more leg room. Anyway hopefully they again are doing some proof of concepts installs, that can help answer many questions.

 

[richmondcuse03]

im thinking they will do wider seats in the higher doner areas with the majority getting the same slightly smaller seats

agree and it’s a great idea. Create some benefit for sitting in the lower seats. Sight lines are great upstairs but improving the quality of the premium seats makes a ton of sense. Can get those up to 21inches based on Tom’s math.

 

[SU68]

im thinking they will do wider seats in the higher doner areas with the majority getting the same slightly smaller seats

Hence the term "fat cats".

 

[Consigliere]

agree and it’s a great idea. Create some benefit for sitting in the lower seats. Sight lines are great upstairs but improving the quality of the premium seats makes a ton of sense. Can get those up to 21inches based on Tom’s math.

Ideally it would extend to all premium seats Except the premium seats for basketball are the cheap seats for football, right? So the only differentiation could be upper to lower bowl.

 

[JRHEETER]

Ideally it would extend to all premium seats Except the premium seats for basketball are the cheap seats for football, right? So the only differentiation could be upper to lower bowl.

Exactly, I think this is a detail that many forget about

 

[storange]

Why is the reduction in capacity a discussion? Football draws a pathetic number and how much would the basketball capacity really be impacted? I think the reduction would be a good thing.

Because we haven’t had a string of successful football teams since the late 90s. So we don’t know what the demand for tickets would be if we could do that again. Big if……. I know, I always had that 50,000 was bench mark for major programs. Guess I need to let that go. Personally Im fine with the seat installation, but I never had a problem with the benches. As time was winding down in the Clemson game a few years back I didn’t turn to Dcuse and say “ This would be really great if we had individual seats “ Do like the cup holders.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Because we haven’t had a string of successful football teams since the late 90s. So we don’t know what the demand for tickets would be if we could do that again. Big if……. I know, I always had that 50,000 was bench mark for major programs. Guess I need to let that go. Personally Im fine with the seat installation, but I never had a problem with the benches. As time was winding down in the Clemson game a few years back I didn’t turn to Dcuse and say “ This would be really great if we had individual seats “ Do like the cup holders.

Attendance was going down everywhere pre covid. The chances of SU having sustained success is pretty small. Last season people stayed away because of covid but if we look at 2018 and 2019:

50,248
44,866
42,857
42,797
40,769
40,700
40,575
37,457
36,632
35,210
33,719
29,395

So only once did we have more that 45k, and only 4x (33%) over 41k. We were under 40k 5/12 games and once under 30k. The median was under 40,750. The average was under 40k (39,600). IMO there is no need for more than 44k, which happens to be a magic number. Actually having sell outs might help overall attendance go up.

 

[upperdeck]

demand and number of seats drive each other.. reality is we have like 50-100K of actual fans who like to be in the building

when you have 50K and demand is 40K and given game than people stop buying seasons because its so easy to get in and cherry pick random games.. if we have 40K of seats and demand is 40K people will feel the pressure of not getting in at all for the games they want to see.

BBall is much the same there are only 20-25K of decent seats and we pretty much sell about 15-20K of seasons so people feel some pressure to but them or not get the locations they like and they also feel they can resell some on the market.

if you reduce some capacity the reasons for buying seasons for fball go up and if we actually get a bit better we sell more seasons as there will be less floating around..

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Because we haven’t had a string of successful football teams since the late 90s. So we don’t know what the demand for tickets would be if we could do that again. Big if……. I know, I always had that 50,000 was bench mark for major programs. Guess I need to let that go. Personally Im fine with the seat installation, but I never had a problem with the benches. As time was winding down in the Clemson game a few years back I didn’t turn to Dcuse and say “ This would be really great if we had individual seats “ Do like the cup holders.

I'm with you. I've been sitting on those benches for so long that they don't bother me. I'm just happy about the new scoreboard and if they can fix the internet then I am good. I normally do my eating and drinking pre and post game but if they were able to get healthier food options I would be good for that also.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

I believe this was the Silverdome. Turning the court and tucking it into the end zone. Might as well look at all options. BTW, I am not in favor of this but if more people get better seats then it could work.

 

[TexanMark]

Ego bruise aside...I'm fine with 43-44K. I do hope they can squeeze out either 44,000 exactly or 44,044 capacity.

SU is pumping up the amenities for a better experience. If we show at 38-40K for all games but FCS or low G5 teams the Dome should have a VG environment and look good on TV.

I expect ticket prices to remain the same when we go from 7 to 6 games as revenue is important for SU.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Yesterday Sala talked about plans for upgrading the west side of the dome after phase 2. Something about greeting players in the tunnel or something. Didn’t quite understand what the vision was. Poorly explained.

Anyone have a better translation?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Yesterday Sala talked about plans for upgrading the west side of the dome after phase 2. Something about greeting players in the tunnel or something. Didn’t quite understand what the vision was. Poorly explained.

Anyone have a better translation?

There's a VIP lounge area in the Southwest corner of the dome under the stands that runs next to the big tunnel with the blue garage doors (where the football team runs out).

Sala mentioned something about converting that into a pre-game area for all fans in the near future.

 

[sutomcat]

Yesterday Sala talked about plans for upgrading the west side of the dome after phase 2. Something about greeting players in the tunnel or something. Didn’t quite understand what the vision was. Poorly explained.

Anyone have a better translation?

This was from Chris Carlson's article from yesterday.

What’s the new building going up next to the Carrier Dome? A pregame fan lounge to thin out crowded concourses

Syracuse is considering things such as filing the space with memorabilia and allowing concession stands to line the building before games.

www.syracuse.com

...
Sala also hinted at a project Syracuse fans might be hearing about in the future.

He said the school is looking at improving its pre-game gathering space on the other side of the building. While Syracuse hosts pre-game VIP events in those spaces now, the experience could be elevated and modern arenas often have viewing areas where fans can form a line and watch the team gather in the pre-game tunnel.

“We are looking at another big improvement with a space by stadium control that is used for basketball pre-game and halftime,” Sala said. “That’s an area we’re taking a real strong look at. I don’t want to get out ahead of the three projects we’re (currently) doing, but there is another project on the horizon for different experiences pre-game and up through halftime.

“We’ve started a little bit of that this year with (Gary Gait) asking us to bring alumni onto the field pregame like we do for a football game.”

I do not have a better translation. Personally, I wish they would focus on plans to extend the concourses behind the west end of the building, for both the lower and upper concourses. This will of course also allow for more space on the ground level for locker room expansion, storage, meetings, and of course, voyeurs looking to watch the team gather pre-game.

The biggest issue with the facility right now, IMHO, is the lack of space on the western end of the building. Bathrooms are needed desperately. It is crazy how far fans have to walk to use the facilities that sit over there. Especially given all the basketball games played on that end,

More space for concessions is also really needed. And just more room in general. Give us a big open area surrounded by bathrooms, decent food choices and lots of space to sit and eat. Let's focus on the most important things first.

 

[FrancoPizza]

The biggest issue with the facility right now, IMHO, is the lack of space on the western end of the building. Bathrooms are needed desperately. It is crazy how far fans have to walk to use the facilities that sit over there. Especially given all the basketball games played on that end,

More space for concessions is also really needed. And just more room in general. Give us a big open area surrounded by bathrooms, decent food choices and lots of space to sit and eat. Let's focus on the most important things first.

And, ironically, the western end is the one side that has plenty of room to expand. It's like they're trying to get cute but completely miss the bigger picture there. Maybe it's regression to the mean because they do seem to making some good decisions on the eastern end.

 

[Stevenson]

Okay, I have a little more time to talk about this now.

When the new seating was announced, the PS took the percentage of seats reduced at Kenan Stadium when they went to individual seats and assumed the same percentage would apply at Syracuse.

Kenan's capacity was reduced from about 63K to about 51K when they put in their seats. That is right about a 20% reduction.

But losing 20% of capacity was an acceptable drop for them because they were at 63K to start with and 51K was a more appropriate size for the fan base than 63K was.

For us, dropping capacity by 20% would put the dome at less than 40K for football and somewhere around 24K for basketball.

That is too much. We draw more than 40K for football and 24K for basketball every season. Often multiple times in a season, especially for basketball. It would make a big impact on revenue today and if we ever get really good at either sport again, it will make a really big impact.

I have heard SUAD say when the individual seats are installed, it will take capacity to around 44K (for football) a number of times in the past. That is the number that has been knocking around for years.

Kenan lost 20% because they went from 18 inch bleacher seats to 22 inch individual seats. That is a 19% bump in seat size.

Pete recently confirmed in a PS article that post seating reduction, hoops will still be able to host crowds of 30K and more.

To me, that implies we are losing at most 4K for hoops from the 34K or so we have today. Which is about 11%.

If you believe the 44K number that has been bandied about post reduction, that represents right about 10% from the current 49K.

You mention aisle width reductions. This is true. Each aisle will be widened by 4 inches.

Most sections seat 32 people. That is 576 inches. Let's work with the typical row widths to make the math easier.

ADA says aisles need to be 48 inches wide. That means we need to increase aisle width 4 inches and this will reduce each of the row widths by 4 inches (2 on each end). That leaves us with 572 inches to fit seats into.

You are concerned about space required for arm rests. Every site I have looked at includes arm rests in the seat width. I don't think this is a concern as far as calculating impact on stadium seating capacity (but it might be determining how comfortable the fans are).

Here is a snippet of an image from one of the seat manufacturers.

You can see this manufacturer offers this seat type in 1 inch increments. Others offer in half inch increments.

View attachment 216974
Given the expected decrease of 10% in stadium capacity, I would expect the seats to be about 10% wider. Perhaps a bit less because of waste. We have 18 inch wide seats now. 10% of 18 is 1.8, so a 10% increase in seat width will yield 19.8 inch wide seats.

As mentioned, it appears some seat manufacturers offer seats in 1 inch increments and others in half inch increments. Don't see anything more precise offered.

If we do 19 inch wide seats, we can fit 30.1 in the 572 inches we have to work with. That is a 6.25% reduction. Not much gain for people's butts and the seat reduction percentage is too small. I do not believe 19 inches is being considered.

If we go with 19.5 inch wide seats, we could fit 29.33 in the full rows. Rounding down to 29 takes us to a 9.375% reduction in seats. That sounds close. That might be the base width we go to.

20 inch wide seats yield 28.6 seats per row. A loss of 4 seats per row. That is a 12.5% reduction. Pretty big and kind of galling to waste .6 of a seat every row. Would be surprised if we went with this.;

20.5 inch wide seats yield 27.9 seats per row. So close. I wonder if they could find a way to fit 28 seats in and get away with it. If the seats are precisely 20.5 inches wide, that would take 574 inches, so the seats would hang one inch into the aisle. Probably not acceptable. Maybe SU can get the manufacturer to make them 20.42 inches wide instead of 20.5. That would be good if SU wanted to make some sections of the dome a little more comfortable for the el grande portion of the fan base. Maybe make the people ponying up the big bucks feel a big more loved. They could afford to do some seats at this size if most were at the 19.5 inch size.

You go to 21 inch wide seats and you are at 27 seats in a row. That is a 15.625% reduction in capacity.

If you go to 22 inch wide seats, you are down to 26 seats in a row. That gets you to an 18.75% reduction in capacity, where you are looking at a UNC type contraction. Those are too extreme; no way we do that.

At least in my opinion.

It was my understanding that there would be no math