Goodbye Aluminum seats | Page 15 | Syracusefan.com

Goodbye Aluminum seats

I hope the armrests are retractable - shouldn’t be a big ask here
 
Maybe this has been posted somewhere here already, appologies if I missed it, but this is wild. Makes our seat upgrades looks like peasants getting new wood shoes.Wild
 
sutomcat said:
The reduction will be about 10%…..
Expand...

If they are real seats and not the cheap option, I do not see how that is even close to mathematically possible. A real seat is typically what 20 inches? Then add in an inch or two for the arm rest and we are looking at over 20% reduction (assuming the current seats are 18 inches, are they even that wide?). Especially since they said they are widening the aisles as well.
 
HRE Otto IV said:
If they are real seats and not the cheap option, I do not see how that is even close to mathematically possible. A real seat is typically what 20 inches? Then add in an inch or two for the arm rest and we are looking at over 20% reduction (assuming the current seats are 18 inches, are they even that wide?). Especially since they said they are widening the aisles as well.
Expand...
They won’t be 20” in the 300s. Probably 16”. Let all the heifers sit down below. Fine by me.
 
HRE Otto IV said:
If they are real seats and not the cheap option, I do not see how that is even close to mathematically possible. A real seat is typically what 20 inches? Then add in an inch or two for the arm rest and we are looking at over 20% reduction (assuming the current seats are 18 inches, are they even that wide?). Especially since they said they are widening the aisles as well.
Expand...
It is. Don’t have time to explain but the new capacity will be in the 43-44k range.
 
FrancoPizza said:
This really should be taken more seriously. Prove you have a medical condition that caused the obesity otherwise pay by the pound.

The state fair could be paved with gold bricks if they adopted that strategy.
Expand...

We don’t make those kind of jokes here anymore.
 
All4SU said:
Skinny people should be able to pay less. Have a few sections with smaller seats and allow thin people a chance to save some money since the Dome can put more seats in those sections. Incentivize thin! An idea whose time has come!
Expand...
The counter argument is that obese people spend more on concessions so they should be comped with lower priced tickets.
Don't get me wrong, I prefer your idea, and not just for sporting events (clothing, airfare, public transportation, etc). "Lean" credits could be traded on an open market like renewable energy credits.
 
sutomcat said:
It is. Don’t have time to explain but the new capacity will be in the 43-44k range.
Expand...
Okay, I have a little more time to talk about this now.

When the new seating was announced, the PS took the percentage of seats reduced at Kenan Stadium when they went to individual seats and assumed the same percentage would apply at Syracuse.

Kenan's capacity was reduced from about 63K to about 51K when they put in their seats. That is right about a 20% reduction.

But losing 20% of capacity was an acceptable drop for them because they were at 63K to start with and 51K was a more appropriate size for the fan base than 63K was.

For us, dropping capacity by 20% would put the dome at less than 40K for football and somewhere around 24K for basketball.

That is too much. We draw more than 40K for football and 24K for basketball every season. Often multiple times in a season, especially for basketball. It would make a big impact on revenue today and if we ever get really good at either sport again, it will make a really big impact.

I have heard SUAD say when the individual seats are installed, it will take capacity to around 44K (for football) a number of times in the past. That is the number that has been knocking around for years.

Kenan lost 20% because they went from 18 inch bleacher seats to 22 inch individual seats. That is a 19% bump in seat size.

Pete recently confirmed in a PS article that post seating reduction, hoops will still be able to host crowds of 30K and more.

To me, that implies we are losing at most 4K for hoops from the 34K or so we have today. Which is about 11%.

If you believe the 44K number that has been bandied about post reduction, that represents right about 10% from the current 49K.

You mention aisle width reductions. This is true. Each aisle will be widened by 4 inches.

Most sections seat 32 people. That is 576 inches. Let's work with the typical row widths to make the math easier.

ADA says aisles need to be 48 inches wide. That means we need to increase aisle width 4 inches and this will reduce each of the row widths by 4 inches (2 on each end). That leaves us with 572 inches to fit seats into.

You are concerned about space required for arm rests. Every site I have looked at includes arm rests in the seat width. I don't think this is a concern as far as calculating impact on stadium seating capacity (but it might be determining how comfortable the fans are).

Here is a snippet of an image from one of the seat manufacturers.

You can see this manufacturer offers this seat type in 1 inch increments. Others offer in half inch increments.

Legend.png

Given the expected decrease of 10% in stadium capacity, I would expect the seats to be about 10% wider. Perhaps a bit less because of waste. We have 18 inch wide seats now. 10% of 18 is 1.8, so a 10% increase in seat width will yield 19.8 inch wide seats.

As mentioned, it appears some seat manufacturers offer seats in 1 inch increments and others in half inch increments. Don't see anything more precise offered.

If we do 19 inch wide seats, we can fit 30.1 in the 572 inches we have to work with. That is a 6.25% reduction. Not much gain for people's butts and the seat reduction percentage is too small. I do not believe 19 inches is being considered.

If we go with 19.5 inch wide seats, we could fit 29.33 in the full rows. Rounding down to 29 takes us to a 9.375% reduction in seats. That sounds close. That might be the base width we go to.

20 inch wide seats yield 28.6 seats per row. A loss of 4 seats per row. That is a 12.5% reduction. Pretty big and kind of galling to waste .6 of a seat every row. Would be surprised if we went with this.;

20.5 inch wide seats yield 27.9 seats per row. So close. I wonder if they could find a way to fit 28 seats in and get away with it. If the seats are precisely 20.5 inches wide, that would take 574 inches, so the seats would hang one inch into the aisle. Probably not acceptable. Maybe SU can get the manufacturer to make them 20.42 inches wide instead of 20.5. That would be good if SU wanted to make some sections of the dome a little more comfortable for the el grande portion of the fan base. Maybe make the people ponying up the big bucks feel a big more loved. They could afford to do some seats at this size if most were at the 19.5 inch size.

You go to 21 inch wide seats and you are at 27 seats in a row. That is a 15.625% reduction in capacity.

If you go to 22 inch wide seats, you are down to 26 seats in a row. That gets you to an 18.75% reduction in capacity, where you are looking at a UNC type contraction. Those are too extreme; no way we do that.

At least in my opinion.
 
sutomcat said:
Okay, I have a little more time to talk about this now.

When the new seating was announced, the PS took the percentage of seats reduced at Kenan Stadium when they went to individual seats and assumed the same percentage would apply at Syracuse.

Kenan's capacity was reduced from about 63K to about 51K when they put in their seats. That is right about a 20% reduction.

But losing 20% of capacity was an acceptable drop for them because they were at 63K to start with and 51K was a more appropriate size for the fan base than 63K was.

For us, dropping capacity by 20% would put the dome at less than 40K for football and somewhere around 24K for basketball.

That is too much. We draw more than 40K for football and 24K for basketball every season. Often multiple times in a season, especially for basketball. It would make a big impact on revenue today and if we ever get really good at either sport again, it will make a really big impact.

I have heard SUAD say when the individual seats are installed, it will take capacity to around 44K (for football) a number of times in the past. That is the number that has been knocking around for years.

Kenan lost 20% because they went from 18 inch bleacher seats to 22 inch individual seats. That is a 19% bump in seat size.

Pete recently confirmed in a PS article that post seating reduction, hoops will still be able to host crowds of 30K and more.

To me, that implies we are losing at most 4K for hoops from the 34K or so we have today. Which is about 11%.

If you believe the 44K number that has been bandied about post reduction, that represents right about 10% from the current 49K.

You mention aisle width reductions. This is true. Each aisle will be widened by 4 inches.

Most sections seat 32 people. That is 576 inches. Let's work with the typical row widths to make the math easier.

ADA says aisles need to be 48 inches wide. That means we need to increase aisle width 4 inches and this will reduce each of the row widths by 4 inches (2 on each end). That leaves us with 572 inches to fit seats into.

You are concerned about space required for arm rests. Every site I have looked at includes arm rests in the seat width. I don't think this is a concern as far as calculating impact on stadium seating capacity (but it might be determining how comfortable the fans are).

Here is a snippet of an image from one of the seat manufacturers.

You can see this manufacturer offers this seat type in 1 inch increments. Others offer in half inch increments.

View attachment 216974
Given the expected decrease of 10% in stadium capacity, I would expect the seats to be about 10% wider. Perhaps a bit less because of waste. We have 18 inch wide seats now. 10% of 18 is 1.8, so a 10% increase in seat width will yield 19.8 inch wide seats.

As mentioned, it appears some seat manufacturers offer seats in 1 inch increments and others in half inch increments. Don't see anything more precise offered.

If we do 19 inch wide seats, we can fit 30.1 in the 572 inches we have to work with. That is a 6.25% reduction. Not much gain for people's butts and the seat reduction percentage is too small. I do not believe 19 inches is being considered.

If we go with 19.5 inch wide seats, we could fit 29.33 in the full rows. Rounding down to 29 takes us to a 9.375% reduction in seats. That sounds close. That might be the base width we go to.

20 inch wide seats yield 28.6 seats per row. A loss of 4 seats per row. That is a 12.5% reduction. Pretty big and kind of galling to waste .6 of a seat every row. Would be surprised if we went with this.;

20.5 inch wide seats yield 27.9 seats per row. So close. I wonder if they could find a way to fit 28 seats in and get away with it. If the seats are precisely 20.5 inches wide, that would take 574 inches, so the seats would hang one inch into the aisle. Probably not acceptable. Maybe SU can get the manufacturer to make them 20.42 inches wide instead of 20.5. That would be good if SU wanted to make some sections of the dome a little more comfortable for the el grande portion of the fan base. Maybe make the people ponying up the big bucks feel a big more loved. They could afford to do some seats at this size if most were at the 19.5 inch size.

You go to 21 inch wide seats and you are at 27 seats in a row. That is a 15.625% reduction in capacity.

If you go to 22 inch wide seats, you are down to 26 seats in a row. That gets you to an 18.75% reduction in capacity, where you are looking at a UNC type contraction. Those are too extreme; no way we do that.

At least in my opinion.
Expand...

We're at 34 seats per row now.
 
FrancoPizza said:
I hope the armrests are retractable - shouldn’t be a big ask here
Expand...
I don't think retractable armrests would be sturdy enough to handle pushing down over time. There is not enough support on the front end of the arm.
 
sutomcat said:
Okay, I have a little more time to talk about this now.

When the new seating was announced, the PS took the percentage of seats reduced at Kenan Stadium when they went to individual seats and assumed the same percentage would apply at Syracuse.

Kenan's capacity was reduced from about 63K to about 51K when they put in their seats. That is right about a 20% reduction.

But losing 20% of capacity was an acceptable drop for them because they were at 63K to start with and 51K was a more appropriate size for the fan base than 63K was.

For us, dropping capacity by 20% would put the dome at less than 40K for football and somewhere around 24K for basketball.

That is too much. We draw more than 40K for football and 24K for basketball every season. Often multiple times in a season, especially for basketball. It would make a big impact on revenue today and if we ever get really good at either sport again, it will make a really big impact.

I have heard SUAD say when the individual seats are installed, it will take capacity to around 44K (for football) a number of times in the past. That is the number that has been knocking around for years.

Kenan lost 20% because they went from 18 inch bleacher seats to 22 inch individual seats. That is a 19% bump in seat size.

Pete recently confirmed in a PS article that post seating reduction, hoops will still be able to host crowds of 30K and more.

To me, that implies we are losing at most 4K for hoops from the 34K or so we have today. Which is about 11%.

If you believe the 44K number that has been bandied about post reduction, that represents right about 10% from the current 49K.

You mention aisle width reductions. This is true. Each aisle will be widened by 4 inches.

Most sections seat 32 people. That is 576 inches. Let's work with the typical row widths to make the math easier.

ADA says aisles need to be 48 inches wide. That means we need to increase aisle width 4 inches and this will reduce each of the row widths by 4 inches (2 on each end). That leaves us with 572 inches to fit seats into.

You are concerned about space required for arm rests. Every site I have looked at includes arm rests in the seat width. I don't think this is a concern as far as calculating impact on stadium seating capacity (but it might be determining how comfortable the fans are).

Here is a snippet of an image from one of the seat manufacturers.

You can see this manufacturer offers this seat type in 1 inch increments. Others offer in half inch increments.

View attachment 216974
Given the expected decrease of 10% in stadium capacity, I would expect the seats to be about 10% wider. Perhaps a bit less because of waste. We have 18 inch wide seats now. 10% of 18 is 1.8, so a 10% increase in seat width will yield 19.8 inch wide seats.

As mentioned, it appears some seat manufacturers offer seats in 1 inch increments and others in half inch increments. Don't see anything more precise offered.

If we do 19 inch wide seats, we can fit 30.1 in the 572 inches we have to work with. That is a 6.25% reduction. Not much gain for people's butts and the seat reduction percentage is too small. I do not believe 19 inches is being considered.

If we go with 19.5 inch wide seats, we could fit 29.33 in the full rows. Rounding down to 29 takes us to a 9.375% reduction in seats. That sounds close. That might be the base width we go to.

20 inch wide seats yield 28.6 seats per row. A loss of 4 seats per row. That is a 12.5% reduction. Pretty big and kind of galling to waste .6 of a seat every row. Would be surprised if we went with this.;

20.5 inch wide seats yield 27.9 seats per row. So close. I wonder if they could find a way to fit 28 seats in and get away with it. If the seats are precisely 20.5 inches wide, that would take 574 inches, so the seats would hang one inch into the aisle. Probably not acceptable. Maybe SU can get the manufacturer to make them 20.42 inches wide instead of 20.5. That would be good if SU wanted to make some sections of the dome a little more comfortable for the el grande portion of the fan base. Maybe make the people ponying up the big bucks feel a big more loved. They could afford to do some seats at this size if most were at the 19.5 inch size.

You go to 21 inch wide seats and you are at 27 seats in a row. That is a 15.625% reduction in capacity.

If you go to 22 inch wide seats, you are down to 26 seats in a row. That gets you to an 18.75% reduction in capacity, where you are looking at a UNC type contraction. Those are too extreme; no way we do that.

At least in my opinion.
Expand...
Sala did mention the seats would be slightly bigger in the lower bowl. So maybe 21" in the 100s and 19" in the 300s... or some variation of this where the price tiers are tied to seat width. This could mean some rows in the 300s have variable seat widths if you look at the price map. But probably not a smart idea given how often the pricing regions have changed.

I'm more concerned about the armrests. I often find myself wanting to push them out of the way and I'd hate to be confined by an artificial barrier when I'm trying to interact with kids or other members in my group.
 
Will this most likely cause ST for football to rise again?
 
sutomcat said:
Okay, I have a little more time to talk about this now.

When the new seating was announced, the PS took the percentage of seats reduced at Kenan Stadium when they went to individual seats and assumed the same percentage would apply at Syracuse.

Kenan's capacity was reduced from about 63K to about 51K when they put in their seats. That is right about a 20% reduction.

But losing 20% of capacity was an acceptable drop for them because they were at 63K to start with and 51K was a more appropriate size for the fan base than 63K was.

For us, dropping capacity by 20% would put the dome at less than 40K for football and somewhere around 24K for basketball.

That is too much. We draw more than 40K for football and 24K for basketball every season. Often multiple times in a season, especially for basketball. It would make a big impact on revenue today and if we ever get really good at either sport again, it will make a really big impact.

I have heard SUAD say when the individual seats are installed, it will take capacity to around 44K (for football) a number of times in the past. That is the number that has been knocking around for years.

Kenan lost 20% because they went from 18 inch bleacher seats to 22 inch individual seats. That is a 19% bump in seat size.

Pete recently confirmed in a PS article that post seating reduction, hoops will still be able to host crowds of 30K and more.

To me, that implies we are losing at most 4K for hoops from the 34K or so we have today. Which is about 11%.

If you believe the 44K number that has been bandied about post reduction, that represents right about 10% from the current 49K.

You mention aisle width reductions. This is true. Each aisle will be widened by 4 inches.

Most sections seat 32 people. That is 576 inches. Let's work with the typical row widths to make the math easier.

ADA says aisles need to be 48 inches wide. That means we need to increase aisle width 4 inches and this will reduce each of the row widths by 4 inches (2 on each end). That leaves us with 572 inches to fit seats into.

You are concerned about space required for arm rests. Every site I have looked at includes arm rests in the seat width. I don't think this is a concern as far as calculating impact on stadium seating capacity (but it might be determining how comfortable the fans are).

Here is a snippet of an image from one of the seat manufacturers.

You can see this manufacturer offers this seat type in 1 inch increments. Others offer in half inch increments.

View attachment 216974
Given the expected decrease of 10% in stadium capacity, I would expect the seats to be about 10% wider. Perhaps a bit less because of waste. We have 18 inch wide seats now. 10% of 18 is 1.8, so a 10% increase in seat width will yield 19.8 inch wide seats.

As mentioned, it appears some seat manufacturers offer seats in 1 inch increments and others in half inch increments. Don't see anything more precise offered.

If we do 19 inch wide seats, we can fit 30.1 in the 572 inches we have to work with. That is a 6.25% reduction. Not much gain for people's butts and the seat reduction percentage is too small. I do not believe 19 inches is being considered.

If we go with 19.5 inch wide seats, we could fit 29.33 in the full rows. Rounding down to 29 takes us to a 9.375% reduction in seats. That sounds close. That might be the base width we go to.

20 inch wide seats yield 28.6 seats per row. A loss of 4 seats per row. That is a 12.5% reduction. Pretty big and kind of galling to waste .6 of a seat every row. Would be surprised if we went with this.;

20.5 inch wide seats yield 27.9 seats per row. So close. I wonder if they could find a way to fit 28 seats in and get away with it. If the seats are precisely 20.5 inches wide, that would take 574 inches, so the seats would hang one inch into the aisle. Probably not acceptable. Maybe SU can get the manufacturer to make them 20.42 inches wide instead of 20.5. That would be good if SU wanted to make some sections of the dome a little more comfortable for the el grande portion of the fan base. Maybe make the people ponying up the big bucks feel a big more loved. They could afford to do some seats at this size if most were at the 19.5 inch size.

You go to 21 inch wide seats and you are at 27 seats in a row. That is a 15.625% reduction in capacity.

If you go to 22 inch wide seats, you are down to 26 seats in a row. That gets you to an 18.75% reduction in capacity, where you are looking at a UNC type contraction. Those are too extreme; no way we do that.

At least in my opinion.
Expand...

I agree that as you put reducing the Dome by 20% isn't really acceptable. but going half ass on the seats is really not acceptable either.

Are we at 18 inches currently?

If the arm rest is part of the 19.5 inches then you aren't really getting 19.5 inches of seating area. I rather have benches with the cushions in that case. And are these seats hard plastic or modern seating like in other stadiums?

If we only take 2 inches for the aisle and we go from 18 inch to 19.5 inch seats (including armrests), we will go from 34 seats per row to 31 seats per row. That would only be about a 9% reduction.
 
HRE Otto IV said:
I agree that as you put reducing the Dome by 20% isn't really acceptable. but going half ass on the seats is really not acceptable either.

Are we at 18 inches currently?

If the arm rest is part of the 19.5 inches then you aren't really getting 19.5 inches of seating area. I rather have benches with the cushions in that case. And are these seats hard plastic or modern seating like in other stadiums?

If we only take 2 inches for the aisle and we go from 18 inch to 19.5 inch seats (including armrests), we will go from 34 seats per row to 31 seats per row. That would only be about a 9% reduction.
Expand...
Sorry I was wrong about the number of seats in a row. Was told that by someone who should know this.

We are definitely currently at 18 inches.

That makes the rows 612 inches.

Aisle expansion will make the rows 608 inches.

Given that, this is what happens when you make the seats wider...

Seat Width181919.52020.521
Seats per Row343231.17 (31)30.4 (30)29.7 (29)29.0 (29)
% Reduction05.98.811.814.714.7

To get a reduction of around 10%-10.5%, it looks like you need a mix of some sections at 19.5 and some at 21 (with most at 19.5).

You can fit 29 seats with a width of 21 inches in our rows so I don't know why anyone would go with 20.5.

Not sure about the seat makeup. All I have heard is that they are plastic. I would assume if they were padded, we would have heard that by now.

Agree, I would have preferred no arm rests. Maybe this is an ADA requirement. I hope whatever we have chosen impacts the width of the seats as minimally as possible.
 
Is it possible we get armrests that flip up like on many airline seats?

FYI Most airline seats are <18inches with flip up arm rests for comparison
 
sutomcat said:
Sorry I was wrong about the number of seats in a row. Was told that by someone who should know this.

We are definitely currently at 18 inches.

That makes the rows 612 inches.

Aisle expansion will make the rows 608 inches.

Given that, this is what happens when you make the seats wider...

Seat Width181919.52020.521
Seats per Row343231.17 (31)30.4 (30)29.7 (29)29.0 (29)
% Reduction05.98.811.814.714.7

To get a reduction of around 10%-10.5%, it looks like you need a mix of some sections at 19.5 and some at 21 (with most at 19.5).

You can fit 29 seats with a width of 21 inches in our rows so I don't know why anyone would go with 20.5.

Not sure about the seat makeup. All I have heard is that they are plastic. I would assume if they were padded, we would have heard that by now.

Agree, I would have preferred no arm rests. Maybe this is an ADA requirement. I hope whatever we have chosen impacts the width of the seats as minimally as possible.
Expand...

Any word on how universal these seats will be? It would be nice if A level was 21.5, B at 21, C at 20, everyone else at 19.5.
 
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