GoT Season 8

[RF2044]

I’ve heard a lot of people taking about the darkness. In a rare moment of great foresight I turned up my brightness at the start of the episode. Helped considerably.

Look, I understand that this is a story set in the equivalent of the middle ages. That means that the only light are fires, lanterns, candles, etc. Anyone who has spent any time in the wilderness away from the "light noise" of modern cities knows that it gets DARK at night.

But that doesn't mean that the show has to be so dark that it is practically impossible to see what is transpiring. Feels like director vanity, IMO.

 

[DeGrozz]

Not exactly true. D&D literally said that Jon wasn't given that moment because he's been too heroic. This was supposed to be his. It's getting fan servicey. That's how you end up with the new Star Wars trilogy.

I was falling asleep while watching the Inside the Series, but I think I heard D&D say that they made the decision to make Arya the hero and it didn't come from GRRM. I believe the said they made the decisions a few seasons ago.

 

[DeGrozz]

Well it destroyed the theory that Jon is Azor Ahai.
Arya is a legit badass she trained with the Faceless men.
IMO Arya would be favored in a duel with Jon Snow.
Star Wars reboot was just garbage.
Episode 7 was fine but Episode 8 was garbage.

Was the Azor Ahai prophecy ever a big thing in the shows though? I always felt it was something in the books that never really made it's way over, but everyone just assumed it was somewhere in the background of the show.

Honestly, I get this stuff mixed up all the time. The first few season tracked nearly perfectly in parallel with the books, but we're definitely on a different path now and sometimes it's hard to keep track between the two.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

There are three episodes remaining. A lot of screen time left—plenty of time to kill more characters, if that's what you need. The ones that survived will likely be useful toward resolving the rest of the story.

Yes, it was dark. The night is dark and full of terrors. Prolly couldn't have been an afternooner. Plus, Melissandre had to die before the break of day... Not sure how else they were supposed to have a night battle, plus convey the added terror of having to face an opponent almost blind, and barely be able to discern friend from foe.

This series' only weakness is in having established its own ridiculous standard. Like when cell phones became what they are, and now people are still b!tching about what each one can't do. Just think of how amazing the filmmaking actually was in this episode. Go back and look at the Making Of the Battle of the Bastards video. It's insane, just logistically. We're now talking about tv episodes that are better than 99% of motion pictures.

 

[cuse10]

There are three episodes remaining. A lot of screen time left—plenty of time to kill more characters, if that's what you need. The ones that survived will likely be useful toward resolving the rest of the story.

Yes, it was dark. The night is dark and full of terrors. Prolly couldn't have been an afternooner. Plus, Melissandre had to die before the break of day... Not sure how else they were supposed to have a night battle, plus convey the added terror of having to face an opponent almost blind, and barely be able to discern friend from foe.

This series' only weakness is in having established its own ridiculous standard. Like when cell phones became what they are, and now people are still b!tching about what each one can't do. Just think of how amazing the filmmaking actually was in this episode. Go back and look at the Making Of the Battle of the Bastards video. It's insane, just logistically. We're now talking about tv episodes that are better than 99% of motion pictures.

The editing and filmmaking was ok. Too many cutaways. LotR shows how to film a battle without exhausting the viewer. It wasn't a good episode and that's fine especially with how much they were hyping it.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

The editing and filmmaking was ok. Too many cutaways. LotR shows how to film a battle without exhausting the viewer. It wasn't a good episode and that's fine especially with how much they were hyping it.

That was, essentially, an hour and a half of battle. Too many cutaways? No, they were entirely necessary to mitigate exhaustion. I barely remember LotR, but how long were its battle sequences?

Seriously, watch a Making Of, and then talk about how the filmmaking was just 'okay.' This stuff is unmatched in episodic programming.

 

[cuse10]

That was, essentially, an hour and a half of battle. Too many cutaways? No, they were entirely necessary to mitigate exhaustion. I barely remember LotR, but how long were its battle sequences?

Seriously, watch a Making Of, and then talk about how the filmmaking was just 'okay.' This stuff is unmatched in episodic programming.

We're free to disagree.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

We're free to disagree.

I'm not sure that's true. Source?

 

[AZOrange]

Fire women gave it away for me when she started talking about the eye colors of the people Arya will kill. Doesn’t make the episode any less awesome than it was. Loved it from start to finish.

Well then the Red Woman ruined it in Season 3 because that prophecy has been around awhile.

 

[AZOrange]

Best episode of the series, by far.

SO much dread and tension. Dothraki charge was a brilliant visual storytelling.

That’s the point where AZOrange would have been sneaking out of Winterfells back door...

 

[OrangeFoo]

There are three episodes remaining. A lot of screen time left—plenty of time to kill more characters, if that's what you need. The ones that survived will likely be useful toward resolving the rest of the story.

Yes, it was dark. The night is dark and full of terrors. Prolly couldn't have been an afternooner. Plus, Melissandre had to die before the break of day... Not sure how else they were supposed to have a night battle, plus convey the added terror of having to face an opponent almost blind, and barely be able to discern friend from foe.

This series' only weakness is in having established its own ridiculous standard. Like when cell phones became what they are, and now people are still b!tching about what each one can't do. Just think of how amazing the filmmaking actually was in this episode. Go back and look at the Making Of the Battle of the Bastards video. It's insane, just logistically. We're now talking about tv episodes that are better than 99% of motion pictures.

I agree with this... for most movies the battle scenes are like 15 minutes. This was 60 minutes plus of pure battle scene. All I can say is I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. The musical score was amazing... they did such an amazing job of setting the menacing mood with the music. The visuals were also stunning, especially with the Dothraki.

While I do agree that it is very much not like Martin to have all of the main characters survive... what is the point of killing any of them now. It's pretty clear that the focus of the show producers is on the political plot and not the night king plot so they didn't want to waste their "bullets" the night king stuff. Also for the book readers... Mormont's death is actually very powerful as Dany was attached to him much more in the books than the tv show let on. Melisandre was a major plot line they ended. Theon was a major plot line which ended... remember he is the one who led to the fall of winterfell in the first place. I don't see what killing off any of the main characters would have done to move the plot forward beyond satisfying people's need for a main character to die. When Martin killed off main characters in the past it kicked off an entirely new plot lines... Ned's death kicked off the whole thing, Joffry's death led to Tyrion's exile, The red wedding led to Jon becoming king of the north, etc... not sure what killing a major character off in this episode would do.. I personally thought killing off the baby stark in the battle of the bastards was gratuitous and unneeded and basically a bone to those who think major characters need to be killed.

 

[AZOrange]

Beric's death was the giveaway that Arya was the chosen one. He was kept alive for one reason. That was enough to clue the viewer in, but the writers really wanted to spell it out for us with Melissandre's eye thing. I think she even reiterated that Beric was kept alive for that purpose. Laid it on pretty thick.

I guess it was all news to Arya, so it makes sense, but I felt like they could have gone with a more subtle approach. I laughed during the post episode interviews when one of the guys said they wanted the viewer to forget about Arya before that final moment. She was told she was going to kill the Night King and then ran off screen, not to be seen again. It was the ONLY thing the viewer was thinking about.

I literally said out loud “come on Arya where are you...”. You know the Night King has to die or all the living were dead at that point. Also settles the point that he was a Targaryan

 

[AZOrange]

Brans bad. It’s the only explanation left.

 

[Guinness]

More epic death scene?

Oberyn or Lyanna Mormont

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I agree with this... for most movies the battle scenes are like 15 minutes. This was 60 minutes plus of pure battle scene. All I can say is I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. The musical score was amazing... they did such an amazing job of setting the menacing mood with the music. The visuals were also stunning, especially with the Dothraki.

While I do agree that it is very much not like Martin to have all of the main characters survive... what is the point of killing any of them now. It's pretty clear that the focus of the show producers is on the political plot and not the night king plot so they didn't want to waste their "bullets" the night king stuff. Also for the book readers... Mormont's death is actually very powerful as Dany was attached to him much more in the books than the tv show let on. Melisandre was a major plot line they ended. Theon was a major plot line which ended... remember he is the one who led to the fall of winterfell in the first place. I don't see what killing off any of the main characters would have done to move the plot forward beyond satisfying people's need for a main character to die. When Martin killed off main characters in the past it kicked off an entirely new plot lines... Ned's death kicked off the whole thing, Joffry's death led to Tyrion's exile, The red wedding led to Jon becoming king of the north, etc... not sure what killing a major character off in this episode would do.. I personally thought killing off the baby stark in the battle of the bastards was gratuitous and unneeded and basically a bone to those who think major characters need to be killed.

For me it wasn’t the characters surviving but how they survived.

The Dothraki we’re eliminated in seconds. Compared to the other living soldiers they were at a tactical advantage being on horseback. So how does everyone survive on foot vs the army of the dead for an hour long battle? They were easily overwhelmed but Theon with a slow loading bow and arrow wasn’t?

How does Sam being stuck on his back for 30 mins like a turtle survive? Now if Ghost had protected him I would have been fine. But that wasn’t the case. Seems like a simple fix.

How the heck did Davos make it?

It would have made sense for at least one of the minor characters and certainly more extras to die in the crypts.

How do you not have a white walker sword fight? Imagine having two white walkers battling Brianne, Podrick, and Jaime? With 2 of those three surviving while killing the 2 white walkers?

How is it that the wights sometimes act like a overwhelming swarm from world war z, but at other times like walking dead zombies within the castle?

Which brings up another question, are the dead simply resurrected humans who should act like humans? Or do they have super powers? The show uses one when convenient but also the other when convenient.

How can wights break through their stone crypt but the one brought to Kings Lansing couldn't get out of a paper bag, well box?

I would have tweaked the ending. First the undead are animated because of the night king. So why not have them simply become inanimate and drop vs disintegration?

Second I would have had Theon get up and say what is dead may never die then stumble towards the night king. The white walkers turn toward him and finish him off. This is what allows Arya to get by them.

Lastly after being stabbed and showing all the undead becoming inanimate, I would cut back to the Night King and he is in human form ala a werewolf movie. As he is dying he reveals his true identity, most likely Stark or Targaryen.

 

[ForCuseSake]

When Martin killed off main characters in the past it kicked off an entirely new plot lines... Ned's death kicked off the whole thing, Joffry's death led to Tyrion's exile, The red wedding led to Jon becoming king of the north, etc... not sure what killing a major character off in this episode would do.. I personally thought killing off the baby stark in the battle of the bastards was gratuitous and unneeded and basically a bone to those who think major characters need to be killed.

I agree that Martin's killing of main characters took the stories in new directions and introduced new plot lines.
The part I put in bold is a pretty big leap as Martin left Snow stabbed by the Night's Watch and bleeding with no hint of his survival or death in his last appearance.

The show writers probably knew Martin intended Jon to survive and become King of the North. There were plenty of interesting twists in the show after the Red Wedding that could've had Jon take a different path.

My disappointment over the lack of a major character's death is that the show has only killed bad guys (e.g. Littlefinger and Ramsey Bolton) since they moved significantly past the books.

Martin killing a "good" character (or enjoyable character who's done a few bad things) made things very unpredictable. The show has lacked that in the last season and a half.

 

[DeGrozz]

I agree with this... for most movies the battle scenes are like 15 minutes. This was 60 minutes plus of pure battle scene. All I can say is I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. The musical score was amazing... they did such an amazing job of setting the menacing mood with the music. The visuals were also stunning, especially with the Dothraki.

While I do agree that it is very much not like Martin to have all of the main characters survive... what is the point of killing any of them now. It's pretty clear that the focus of the show producers is on the political plot and not the night king plot so they didn't want to waste their "bullets" the night king stuff. Also for the book readers... Mormont's death is actually very powerful as Dany was attached to him much more in the books than the tv show let on. Melisandre was a major plot line they ended. Theon was a major plot line which ended... remember he is the one who led to the fall of winterfell in the first place. I don't see what killing off any of the main characters would have done to move the plot forward beyond satisfying people's need for a main character to die. When Martin killed off main characters in the past it kicked off an entirely new plot lines... Ned's death kicked off the whole thing, Joffry's death led to Tyrion's exile, The red wedding led to Jon becoming king of the north, etc... not sure what killing a major character off in this episode would do.. I personally thought killing off the baby stark in the battle of the bastards was gratuitous and unneeded and basically a bone to those who think major characters need to be killed.

It's not a matter of needing characters to be killed off for the sake of them being killed off, it's that these last few seasons have been taking a central theme of the whole series in a very different direction. I don't think you can be angry about D&D not being able to weave a story like GRRM can, but coming into these final seasons (and in the books) there was always a feeling that you never knew the day or the hour of a character's demise. Part of the allure of the early seasons/books was that characters didn't get a pass just because they were with the good guys. Emotionally, it sucked, but we also loved the emotional rollercoaster of Ned's beheading and the red wedding. Those types of unheroic and gruesome plot twists are very uncommon in these types of shows. Now, everyone gets a hero's ending or an improbable 'out' when they are in a tough spot. Like Jorah dying defending his queen, tiny Lady Mormont slaying a giant, Theon being forgiven by a Stark before charging the NK, or Jon getting timely saved moments from death by Dany beyond the wall, the Knights of the Vale, and Arya's assassination of the NK.

You can say that the deaths of any key characters wouldn't have added to the plot, but it's the writers job to make sure that they do so they stay true to a central theme of the story. We've basically gone from an uncommon storyline to a story that we've seen a thousand times before, just on a much grander scale now. It's unfortunate because this is probably the only ending we're going to get unless GRRM gets on his pony.

 

[Arangeman]

Lame to only kill off ancillary characters. Someone meaningful had to go.

 

[ForCuseSake]

For me it wasn’t the characters surviving but how they survived.

The Dothraki we’re eliminated in seconds. Compared to the other living soldiers they were at a tactical advantage being on horseback. So how does everyone survive on foot vs the army of the dead for an hour long battle? They were easily overwhelmed but Theon with a slow loading bow and arrow wasn’t?

How does Sam being stuck on his back for 30 mins like a turtle survive? Now if Ghost had protected him I would have been fine. But that wasn’t the case. Seems like a simple fix.

How the heck did Davos make it?

It would have made sense for at least one of the minor characters and certainly more extras to die in the crypts.

How do you not have a white walker sword fight? Imagine having two white walkers battling Brianne, Podrick, and Jaime? With 2 of those three surviving while killing the 2 white walkers?

How is it that the wights sometimes act like a overwhelming swarm from world war z, but at other times like walking dead zombies within the castle?

Which brings up another question, are the dead simply resurrected humans who should act like humans? Or do they have super powers? The show uses one when convenient but also the other when convenient.

How can wights break through their stone crypt but the one brought to Kings Lansing couldn't get out of a paper bag, well box?

I would have tweaked the ending. First the undead are animated because of the night king. So why not have them simply become inanimate and drop vs disintegration?

Second I would have had Theon get up and say what is dead may never die then stumble towards the night king. The white walkers turn toward him and finish him off. This is what allows Arya to get by them.

Lastly after being stabbed and showing all the undead becoming inanimate, I would cut back to the Night King and he is in human form ala a werewolf movie. As he is dying he reveals his true identity, most likely Stark or Targaryen.

I agree 100% about the inconsistency on what happened when the un-dead were whacked.

Dragon glass caused some zombies to disintegrate (Lady Mormont's giant) while others gushed blood when stabbed (Arya's hallway encounter). I couldn't pick up on why.

 

[Alsacs]

I bet the only reason the NK was crumbled was Arya stabbed him where the children of the forest stuck those daggers in him.
Meaning Arya got ridiculously lucky but whatever.

 

[GoSU96]

I bet the only reason the NK was crumbled was Arya stabbed him where the children of the forest stuck those daggers in him.
Meaning Arya got ridiculously lucky but whatever.

If it was her destiny, then it was inevitable.

 

[PhatOrange]

regarding killing main characters I saw no reason for keeping Greyworm, Greyworn's girlfriend, Gendry, or Gilly alive. I think some are all of these characters dying would have cast much more dread over the hole battle and it's aftermath.

 

[OrangeFoo]

regarding killing main characters I saw no reason for keeping Greyworm, Greyworn's girlfriend, Gendry, or Gilly alive. I think some are all of these characters dying would have cast much more dread over the hole battle and it's aftermath.

I would argue that Greyworm, his girlfriend, gilly, etc.. are tier 2 or tier 3 characters. If the character doesn't get a POV chapter in the book they are not a main character in my opinion. This whole conversation reminds me of Galaxy Quest where one of the main characters is convinced he is going to die in real life because on the show he's an extra and they always die on the show.

My guess is the body count increases significantly now that they got past the NK plot line.

My thoughts on next several episodes:
- Dani and the Starks turn on each other
- Jon and Dani don't end up happily ever after
- At least one Lannister turns traitor and 2 out of 3 die
- one of Arya and Sansa do not make it to the end

 

[orangenauburn]

not everyone could die yet.

Jaime and Tyrionn still have Bronn coming for them, let alone them for Cersei.

Hound still has a date with The Mountain

Arya may have unfinished business with Cersei too

Varys may play a part in betraying the North v Cersei ( just my thoughts )

I could understand Brienne, Tormund, Podrick, Davis dying, though I see Brienne becoming The Hand of whomever takes the thrown.

Don't know how Grey Worm survived.

Otherwise I thought it was pretty good all in all

Gendry probably has a role with Arya still.

 

[DeGrozz]

If the character doesn't get a POV chapter in the book they are not a main character in my opinion.

Straight up disrespectful to Littlefinger, Tywin, the Hound, Joffrey, Jorah, Varys, and the Tyrells. /s

Actually, while writing this I realized if Tywin, Littlefinger, or Varys had POVs, it would have ruined some of the biggest plot twists in the story and that's why they never got them.