Guess who is currently 17th in total revenue in 2013

[SmilinBob]

SU has the alumni but they aren't vested in sports like Alabama

Or has as many but still this is the type of thing the school has to compete with if they want to be a player. Not saying that they can do it...just what they have to compete with.

 

[GoSU96]

An Alabama fan or alumni paid off Saban's 3+ million mortgage. That's crazy money but what SU has to compete with.

SU doesn't have to compete with Alabama.

 

[GoSU96]

Doesn't matter it sends the message we just don't care about football.

No it doesn't.

 

[Millhouse]

SU doesn't have to compete with Alabama.

i don't know why people even think about alabama.

maybe in a once in a lifetime dream season we get to play them in a meaningful game. but the paths to get there are never going to be the same

 

[SmilinBob]

SU doesn't have to compete with Alabama.

My point is passionate alumni and fans. SU has fans that pay $ for a suit that a basketball coach gets kicked out of a game for charity other schools are getting mega X, Y and Z money for their football programs. And yes...they do have to compete with Bama and the like if they want to be a big boy and play for titles and not just compete for a bowl every so often.

 

[Millhouse]

My point is passionate alumni and fans. SU has fans that pay $ for a suit that a basketball coach gets kicked out of a game for charity other schools are getting mega X, Y and Z money for their football programs. And yes...they do have to compete with Bama and the like if they want to be a big boy and play for titles and not just compete for a bowl every so often.

did syracuse spend like the factories in 1987?

 

[CuseOnly]

That 990 does not include Gait by name. I've also never once defended our fiscal responsibility or lack there of. Spending Ike a drunk sailor is a term heard often.

People want to say since Gait is a top paid lax coach it hurts our ability to pay top dollar for a football coach. I say no it doesn't. We pay for what we have from an experience and success standpoint. When Marrone was here he was the 58th highest paid coach. Sounds about right to me. We offered Holtz over $2m, 6 years ago. Where would that have placed him?

The top 20 salaries are now $4m+. We aren't going to get one of those coaches nor should we pay that much to a coach who hasn't proven they deserve it. So Gaits $172k or $350k or whatever means nothing. Even if we agreed Gait doesn't deserve that much, it doesn't get us a $4m coach. And no I don't care if one coach is top 10% in the ACC and another isn't.

And yes, others do compensate coaches. Booster clubs, individual boosters and the IMGs. None of those top 20 paid coaches are fully compensated by the school alone.

SU spends like we have had 2 drinks and try to drive home and get in an accident or get pulled over.

I don't think the Gait salary "issue" is about the dollar value as much as people think it shows a lack of priorities being aligned with what fans want. If your HC for football is only paid $500K more than you women's LAX coach, from anyone's perspective, it shows that you don't prioritize correctly.

Alabama in that scenario would have to pay their women's LAX coach about 4.5 million a year. Tide fans would be pissed too.

 

[Full_Rebar]

SU doesn't have to compete with Alabama.

Nope, but they do need to compete with the other ACC schools and we are behind the other privates except for Wake, and if that's the goal then SU shouldn't expect an increase in fan support for the program.

 

[CuseOnly]

Nope, but they do need to compete with the other ACC schools and we are behind the other privates except for Wake, and if that's the goal then SU shouldn't expect an increase in fan support for the program.

Or donations...

 

[Full_Rebar]

That 990 does not include Gait by name. I've also never once defended our fiscal responsibility or lack there of. Spending Ike a drunk sailor is a term heard often.

The 2013 990 form does in fact include Gait by name with the compensation of $769,964. This is listed as reportable compensation from the organization, however that is determined. You have to create an account to view the form, but it's page 16 here http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2013/150/532/2013-150532081-0a6837c0-9.pdf

 

[SmilinBob]

did syracuse spend like the factories in 1987?

It isn't 1987 anymore.

 

[JoeSU]

The other constraint that the AD office has to consider is Title IX compliance. Gait's salary probably helps balance things out in this regard.

I would also differentiate between salary and "total compensation". I receive a total compensation statement every year that reflects my salary + benefits, which includes things like employer-paid health insurance and social security contributions, as well as the tuition waiver for my daughter.

 

[Millhouse]

It isn't 1987 anymore.

factories dominated then too, don't kid yourself

ucf was top 10 last year

stanford 2012
boise 2011
stanford boise 2010
tcu cincy vt 2009
tcu utah 2008
wvu bc kansas 2007
boise louisville wvu 2006
vt 2005
utah louisville vt 2004

do any of those schools act like alabama?

 

[SUFan44]

I used Saban as an example - poor one, my fault on that. That was just to prove the structure of payment is not as simple as saying his base salary from SU and that's all SU pays him (or any other school).

We have the 4th highest revenue in the ACC - 17th in the country. We spend top market value for a ton of other sports. But our men's basketball coach is severely underpaid for the level he wins at and our football coaching staff is comprised of MAC level guys without a ton of experience. The OC was fired because he wasn't up to the task, and was replaced by a D3 guy. The DC is most likely getting some help from the HC, who is a great DC but not sold on the HC part. And we don't have a special teams coach.

Was the staff composition solely based on Shafer's preferences? And not salaries? That's something I do not know and if it did not have to do with salaries, Gross needs to step in and tell Shafer to reorganize the staff with people in place that can do their jobs effectively.

 

[Millhouse]

I used Saban as an example - poor one, my fault on that. That was just to prove the structure of payment is not as simple as saying his base salary from SU and that's all SU pays him (or any other school).

We have the 4th highest revenue in the ACC - 17th in the country. We spend top market value for a ton of other sports. But our men's basketball coach is severely underpaid for the level he wins at and our football coaching staff is comprised of MAC level guys without a ton of experience. The OC was fired because he wasn't up to the task, and was replaced by a D3 guy. The DC is most likely getting some help from the HC, who is a great DC but not sold on the HC part. And we don't have a special teams coach.

Was the staff composition solely based on Shafer's preferences? And not salaries? That's something I do not know and if it did not have to do with salaries, Gross needs to step in and tell Shafer to reorganize the staff with people in place that can do their jobs effectively.

there is part of me that questions the numbers we see

maybe we pay less than we ought to because the total revenues aren't as real as they seem

 

[SUFan44]

there is part of me that questions the numbers we see

maybe we pay less than we ought to because the total revenues aren't as real as they seem

Fair enough - and don't misconstrue this as me thinking the WLAX coach salary would make a huge dent in the deficit we have in FB coaching salaries as some may - but if the total revenues are just cooking the books or rearranging numbers then what justification does Gross have for paying what he pays for non-revenue sport coaches and if he does spend like a drunken sailor then why hasn't he done so w/ football & basketball too?

 

[rrlbees]

The 2013 990 form does in fact include Gait by name with the compensation of $769,964. This is listed as reportable compensation from the organization, however that is determined. You have to create an account to view the form, but it's page 16 here http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2013/150/532/2013-150532081-0a6837c0-9.pdf

2013 does not. You linked 2012 which does. The 600k they show is not his salary but it must be they have to include other things like camps the coaches get paid for since they use SU facility's and their income from camps is funneled through SU.

Even so, I still maintain that his salary or other compensation that every coach gets does not impact whether we pay a football coach $1m, $2m or $4m.

And Gaits salary is not 1/2 of Shafer. Btw, you want to be upset about something. We're still paying Buzz Shaw $1m/yr.

If you want a high end coach that will get $4m a year, we first hVe to find that level coach that will come here and then get others on board to help with that compensation. Regardless of what Gait makes. He's a drop in the bucket to what SU itself would outlay for both.
grts does not impact

 

[SUFan44]

2013 does not. You linked 2012 which does. The 600k they show is not his salary but it must be they have to include other things like camps the coaches get paid for since they use SU facility's and their income from camps is funneled through SU.

Even so, I still maintain that his salary or other compensation that every coach gets does not impact whether we pay a football coach $1m, $2m or $4m.

And Gaits salary is not 1/2 of Shafer. Btw, you want to be upset about something. We're still paying Buzz Shaw $1m/yr.

If you want a high end coach that will get $4m a year, we first hVe to find that level coach that will come here and then get others on board to help with that compensation. Regardless of what Gait makes. He's a drop in the bucket to what SU itself would outlay for both.
grts does not impact

That's not the point - the point is relative to our peers we underpay and nickel-and-dime in football. Yet we overpay by a lot for non-revenues.

 

[Millhouse]

Fair enough - and don't misconstrue this as me thinking the WLAX coach salary would make a huge dent in the deficit we have in FB coaching salaries as some may - but if the total revenues are just cooking the books or rearranging numbers then what justification does Gross have for paying what he pays for non-revenue sport coaches and if he does spend like a drunken sailor then why hasn't he done so w/ football & basketball too?

I think Gross is selfish. He thinks that throwing money at sports no one cares about can get him some championships to put on his resume. There might be some colleges out there who'll be impressed with that. He gets more bang for his buck there. All he needs to do is find one wealthy school to pay through the nose based on standards different from our's.

 

[Toga]

2013 does not. You linked 2012 which does. The 600k they show is not his salary but it must be they have to include other things like camps the coaches get paid for since they use SU facility's and their income from camps is funneled through SU.

Even so, I still maintain that his salary or other compensation that every coach gets does not impact whether we pay a football coach $1m, $2m or $4m.

And Gaits salary is not 1/2 of Shafer. Btw, you want to be upset about something. We're still paying Buzz Shaw $1m/yr.

If you want a high end coach that will get $4m a year, we first hVe to find that level coach that will come here and then get others on board to help with that compensation. Regardless of what Gait makes. He's a drop in the bucket to what SU itself would outlay for both.
grts does not impact

Buzz Shaw - $1M

 

[rrlbees]

there is part of me that questions the numbers we see maybe we pay less than we ought to because the total revenues aren't as real as they seem

The part I question, and the devil may be in the details, is where are scholarships accounted for and how. I've been told twice, and not in the last year so maybe it has changed, that the "home" school gets docked for them, not the AD. I don't know the total number of scholarship athletes nor do I know the "value" of a scholarship (not sure it would be the full $60k a regular student is charged) , but it has to be in the millions still.

 

[Full_Rebar]

2013 does not. You linked 2012 which does. The 600k they show is not his salary but it must be they have to include other things like camps the coaches get paid for since they use SU facility's and their income from camps is funneled through SU.

Even so, I still maintain that his salary or other compensation that every coach gets does not impact whether we pay a football coach $1m, $2m or $4m.

And Gaits salary is not 1/2 of Shafer. Btw, you want to be upset about something. We're still paying Buzz Shaw $1m/yr.

If you want a high end coach that will get $4m a year, we first hVe to find that level coach that will come here and then get others on board to help with that compensation. Regardless of what Gait makes. He's a drop in the bucket to what SU itself would outlay for both.
grts does not impact

The 2013 report is for 2012, so it's a minor detail. I will be curious to see what Gait has listed when the next report is released in May. I don't know that camps would make up 600k, but I don't see how camps go into his SU compensation for 500k. Does SU let him use all the facilities for free, or is he really making 500k profit from summer camps? If so, god bless him for being able to do that.

The SUAD doesn't pay Shaw so I could care less what he makes (even if it's bad that SU's paying him that amount still), but there is absolutely a connection between the salaries of athletic department staff and the amount of money available for the football staff.

I'm not asking for a $4 mil coach, but I am pushing for a higher pool for the football program overall. It's certainly reasonable to want money that is currently going to people in the SU Ath Dept to be directed towards the football program. This could include asst. coach salaries, hiring another Eric White, getting a nutritionist, whatever.

I want Gross to not pay a first time D1 coach in an Olympic sport more than any other coach in the country. I'm fine if he's going to reward a coach who performs (maybe this is the Gait increase), but at the same time, I don't want to hear from SU that it's up to the community to support football when the AD isn't doing the same.

 

[javadoc]

Btw, you want to be upset about something. We're still paying Buzz Shaw $1m/yr.

WHAT?! Why, and how long does that persist?

 

[Toga]

WHAT?! Why, and how long does that persist?

Looks like SU did and didn't pay him that much. Last reporting period involved life insurance type payout. Hasn't taught for several years. That said - for years SU was paying him a half million a year to teach one freaking class.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index....n_to_buzz_shaw_one_year_after_retirement.html

 

[GoSU96]

I used Saban as an example - poor one, my fault on that. That was just to prove the structure of payment is not as simple as saying his base salary from SU and that's all SU pays him (or any other school).

We have the 4th highest revenue in the ACC - 17th in the country. We spend top market value for a ton of other sports. But our men's basketball coach is severely underpaid for the level he wins at and our football coaching staff is comprised of MAC level guys without a ton of experience. The OC was fired because he wasn't up to the task, and was replaced by a D3 guy. The DC is most likely getting some help from the HC, who is a great DC but not sold on the HC part. And we don't have a special teams coach.

Was the staff composition solely based on Shafer's preferences? And not salaries? That's something I do not know and if it did not have to do with salaries, Gross needs to step in and tell Shafer to reorganize the staff with people in place that can do their jobs effectively.

I think you missed the part where SU is now is a recent occurrence. The big jump is due to the first ACC distribution. The AD has done a good job managing overall expenses versus growing revenues.

In 2009 the AD broke even with $49M in revenue and expenses according to their reporting to the DOE, which usually means it was in the hole.

In 2010 reported $51.4 M in revenue against $50.7M in expenses.

In 2011 $73.3 M in revenue vs $69.2M in expenses.

In 2012 $76.3M in revenue vs $66.6M in expenses.

In 2013 $87.6M in revenue vs $72M in expenses.

Spending on football has gone up every year.

In 2009 Football expenses were reported as $15.3M, in 2013, $23.6M

The point of my original post is that SU has NOW entered big boy territory. There are now resources to, at least according to that data, to spend money on the staff, if that's the way they want to go.