Guess who is currently 17th in total revenue in 2013

[javadoc]

Looks like SU did and didn't pay him that much. Last reporting period involved life insurance type payout. Hasn't taught for several years. That said - for years SU was paying him a half million a year to teach one freaking class.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index....n_to_buzz_shaw_one_year_after_retirement.html

I did not know he had been teaching. Holy heart attack, batman.

 

[javadoc]

I think you missed the part where SU is now is a recent occurrence. The big jump is due to the first ACC distribution. The AD has done a good job managing overall expenses versus growing revenues.

In 2009 the AD broke even with $49M in revenue and expenses according to their reporting to the DOE, which usually means it was in the hole.

In 2010 reported $51.4 M in revenue against $50.7M in expenses.

In 2011 $73.3 M in revenue vs $69.2M in expenses.

In 2012 $76.3M in revenue vs $66.6M in expenses.

In 2013 $87.6M in revenue vs $72M in expenses.

Spending on football has gone up every year.

In 2009 Football expenses were reported as $15.3M, in 2013, $23.6M

The point of my original post is that SU has NOW entered big boy territory. There are now resources to, at least according to that data, to spend money on the staff, if that's the way they want to go.

A sudden $8M bump in football between 2012 and 2013? That has to be the IPF. What else could account for a one year 54% increase?

 

[Full_Rebar]

I think you missed the part where SU is now is a recent occurrence. The big jump is due to the first ACC distribution. The AD has done a good job managing overall expenses versus growing revenues.

In 2009 the AD broke even with $49M in revenue and expenses according to their reporting to the DOE, which usually means it was in the hole.

In 2010 reported $51.4 M in revenue against $50.7M in expenses.

In 2011 $73.3 M in revenue vs $69.2M in expenses.

In 2012 $76.3M in revenue vs $66.6M in expenses.

In 2013 $87.6M in revenue vs $72M in expenses.

Spending on football has gone up every year.

In 2009 Football expenses were reported as $15.3M, in 2013, $23.6M

The point of my original post is that SU has NOW entered big boy territory. There are now resources to, at least according to that data, to spend money on the staff, if that's the way they want to go.

This is not directed at you personally, but I question the accuracy of these numbers. From the information I've heard to the conversations reported to have occurred during University Senate meetings, I find it very hard to believe that from 2011-2013, SU Athletics made a profit of $29 million.

I believe there is a lot more to this story...

 

[javadoc]

This is not directed at you personally, but I question the accuracy of these numbers. From the information I've heard to the conversations reported to have occurred during University Senate meetings, I find it very hard to believe that from 2011-2013, SU Athletics made a profit of $29 million.

I believe there is a lot more to this story...

There would have to be some fudging on the revenue side then, IMO. The expense side is what the feds use to ensure Title IX compliance. The revenue side is irrelevant.

What happens when the AD gives out free football tickets to students, military, etc.? Does the AD have to book that as an expense?

 

[rrlbees]

That's not the point - the point is relative to our peers we underpay and nickel-and-dime in football. Yet we overpay by a lot for non-revenues.

We don't necessarily nickel and dime the football coach. We pay them market value based upon their own experience and success. Giving Shafer $2m or $3m or $4m doesn't change a thing. If your argument is that we should get a HC that warrants $2m, $3m, $4m, then that's a different discussion. Six yeRs ago we couldn't get a guy here for $2m+, which was near high end then.

 

[rrlbees]

The 2013 report is for 2012, so it's a minor detail. I will be curious to see what Gait has listed when the next report is released in May. I don't know that camps would make up 600k, but I don't see how camps go into his SU compensation for 500k. Does SU let him use all the facilities for free, or is he really making 500k profit from summer camps? If so, god bless him for being able to do that. The SUAD doesn't pay Shaw so I could care less what he makes (even if it's bad that SU's paying him that amount still), but there is absolutely a connection between the salaries of athletic department staff and the amount of money available for the football staff. I'm not asking for a $4 mil coach, but I am pushing for a higher pool for the football program overall. It's certainly reasonable to want money that is currently going to people in the SU Ath Dept to be directed towards the football program. This could include asst. coach salaries, hiring another Eric White, getting a nutritionist, whatever. I want Gross to not pay a first time D1 coach in an Olympic sport more than any other coach in the country. I'm fine if he's going to reward a coach who performs (maybe this is the Gait increase), but at the same time, I don't want to hear from SU that it's up to the community to support football when the AD isn't doing the same.

The latest report is available which I was referring to which does not include Gait because his compensation did not increase by $150k or more. It's the 2014 report for 2013. So I'm a version ahead of you.

Nah, Gait doesn't make that much on camps. It's like $124k. But it must funnel through SU since its on SU facilities, insurance reasons etc. But it's not "SU" money. It's from campers fees. So like a lot of these compensation numbers I don't see how they decrease the amount of budget available to the AD for coaches salaries.

As to a $4m coach, you may not want one, but even a $3m coach still has to be available. I think we'd go there if deserved. We went over $2m six years ago. As to the total pool, I would hope so too with the ACC money now. But I'd like to see the AD pay off all the other departments who had to chip in for the BE exit fee. Heard it's not gonna work that way. When we hired Marrone, he insisted on more $$$ for assistants. He got it. We can afford more now. But even taking $200k from Gait isn't going to do squat.

 

[rrlbees]

WHAT?! Why, and how long does that persist?

No idea. But he's listed as having been compensated $1.1m on one of those reports.

 

[cpatrocks]

Gross would spend gobs of $ for football coaches if he had permission. He's not the problem.

I just wish he could spend gobs of $$$ on ONE football coach. The rest should take care of itself from there.

 

[Full_Rebar]

The latest report is available which I was referring to which does not include Gait because his compensation did not increase by $150k or more. It's the 2014 report for 2013. So I'm a version ahead of you.

Nah, Gait doesn't make that much on camps. It's like $124k. But it must funnel through SU since its on SU facilities, insurance reasons etc. But it's not "SU" money. It's from campers fees. So like a lot of these compensation numbers I don't see how they decrease the amount of budget available to the AD for coaches salaries.

As to a $4m coach, you may not want one, but even a $3m coach still has to be available. I think we'd go there if deserved. We went over $2m six years ago. As to the total pool, I would hope so too with the ACC money now. But I'd like to see the AD pay off all the other departments who had to chip in for the BE exit fee. Heard it's not gonna work that way. When we hired Marrone, he insisted on more $$$ for assistants. He got it. We can afford more now. But even taking $200k from Gait isn't going to do squat.

Well I'll take my outdated information and drop out of that argument now. Let me just say one last thing about coaching salaries- I don't necessarily want a new HC. I just want a 1m per year OC...and I'm thinking 200k from some combination of Gait/Q/Wheddon, 100k from Mrs. Gross, and 200k from Giansante should be enough to cover the difference to get one.

 

[SUFan44]

Well I'll take my outdated information and drop out of that argument now. Let me just say one last thing about coaching salaries- I don't necessarily want a new HC. I just want a 1m per year OC...and I'm thinking 200k from some combination of Gait/Q/Wheddon, 100k from Mrs. Gross, and 200k from Giansante should be enough to cover the difference to get one.

Wheddon is stealing money - whatever that amount is.

 

[rrlbees]

Well I'll take my outdated information and drop out of that argument now. Let me just say one last thing about coaching salaries- I don't necessarily want a new HC. I just want a 1m per year OC...and I'm thinking 200k from some combination of Gait/Q/Wheddon, 100k from Mrs. Gross, and 200k from Giansante should be enough to cover the difference to get one.

The bottom line is I don't think it's what we are paying, it's who we get that deserves it. If we're gonna pay $3m it's gotta be a HC whose market value is $3m. If we're gonna pay $1m for an OC it's gotta be an OC whose market value is $1m. I think you'd agree with that.

Btw, I think if the right opportunity came along, we'd pay $3m for a HC. But we're not paying that to a newbie like Shafer is or Marrone was.

 

[jr4750]

Wheddon is stealing money - whatever that amount is.

no doubt, his teams have been terrible... I have my issues with Coach Q as well. However, despite the debate on salaries, et al. the rest of the hires have been strong

Fox
Ross
Bradley
McIntrye

Have demonstrated a lot of success

The volleyball coach is having a rough year as well. Wonder what we paid for him. I believe he was out of work when we found him

 

[jr4750]

The bottom line is I don't think it's what we are paying, it's who we get that deserves it. If we're gonna pay $3m it's gotta be a HC whose market value is $3m. If we're gonna pay $1m for an OC it's gotta be an OC whose market value is $1m. I think you'd agree with that.

Btw, I think if the right opportunity came along, we'd pay $3m for a HC. But we're not paying that to a newbie like Shafer is or Marrone was.

Nor should we... People were worried a year ago that Shaf wasnt signed to an extension yet... Now they want him gone. I concur with your statements, pay what the market dictates for talent. We have an unproven head coach at the moment who we 7-6 and now stands to potentially go 3-9, whats market value on that?

 

[RF2044]

Time to stop using small private school limited resources as an excuse.

Isn't this the first year that we've received a disbursement of ACC revenue? If so, it wasn't an excuse up until this point. Generally speaking, we were breaking even [if that], and in recent years the margin on revenue was pretty tight even when we WERE in the black.

We're making exponentially more via our association with the ACC than we were with the Big East. That led to some difficult trade offs that Gross was willing to make, just to bring $$$ through the door [i.e., shipping important games off campus for a payoff]. That's what happens when revenues is in short supply. I'm convinced that if the proprietors of MetLife Stadium had indicated to TGD that the parking lots down there needed to be plowed, he'd have slapped a snow plow on the front of his Mercedes to do it himself, if there was a paycheck involved.

Thankfully, conditions have changed. Here's hoping that the influx of more consistent revenues will enable the AD to continue to invest in football infrastructure to keep pace with the Jonses, and also to not be as gunshy about paying more for HC / AC salaries for football.

 

[supp]

3 out of the top 4 are former BE teams. If he didn't look and sound like such a weeny, I'd feel bad for Tranghese.

 

[GoSU96]

Even if we are willing to spend more cash for a football coach we still won't get a big name to come here. The SU football gig is not a desirable one, even when things are going well. It certainly would help with assistant coaches however

What does that mean?

Are you saying SU couldn't hire away a coach from another P5 program like PSU or Texas did?

No kidding.

But for any NFL or P5 coordinator or non P5 HC this job is very desirable. This isn't 6 years ago with SU in the BE coming off of the Grobian 10-37.

 

[rrlbees]

What does that mean? Are you saying SU couldn't hire away a coach from another P5 program like PSU or Texas did? No kidding. But for any NFL or P5 coordinator or non P5 HC this job is very desirable. This isn't 6 years ago with SU in the BE coming off of the Grobian 10-37.

Nor is it 10 years ago with SU in the BE coming off 16-20 and nobody beating down our doors.

 

[SUFan44]

Nor is it 10 years ago with SU in the BE coming off 16-20 and nobody beating down our doors.

Not sure if that's any different than the original point. Big East is biggest element in both. ACC is huge and would attract a number of quality candidates.

 

[rrlbees]

What does that mean? Are you saying SU couldn't hire away a coach from another P5 program like PSU or Texas did? No kidding. But for any NFL or P5 coordinator or non P5 HC this job is very desirable. This isn't 6 years ago with SU in the BE coming off of the Grobian 10-37.

Also, there was a lot of interest 6 years ago. Several college HCs as you'll recall. Edsall, Holtz, Gill, Golden, etc. Even an NFL OC, Marrone. I think there was more interest 6 years ago as 10.

 

[rrlbees]

Not sure if that's any different than the original point. Big East is biggest element in both. ACC is huge and would attract a number of quality candidates.

It's not different. Just poking my friend GO.

 

[djorange1989]

What does that mean?

Are you saying SU couldn't hire away a coach from another P5 program like PSU or Texas did?

No kidding.

But for any NFL or P5 coordinator or non P5 HC this job is very desirable. This isn't 6 years ago with SU in the BE coming off of the Grobian 10-37.

you have a point, but I still think the SU job is seen as one of the least desirable in the P5. Extra cash never hurts, that is for sure.

 

[SUFan44]

you have a point, but I still think the SU job is seen as one of the least desirable in the P5. Extra cash never hurts, that is for sure.

Controlled environment - great history - good academic school - top 10 perennial basketball team. Potential is there. Don't think SU is seen that way at all. Only reason it would be seen that way is because of attendance, but outside of select few, attendance is a huge issue across the board in college football.

 

[anomander]

That 990 does not include Gait by name. I've also never once defended our fiscal responsibility or lack there of. Spending Ike a drunk sailor is a term heard often.

People want to say since Gait is a top paid lax coach it hurts our ability to pay top dollar for a football coach. I say no it doesn't. We pay for what we have from an experience and success standpoint. When Marrone was here he was the 58th highest paid coach. Sounds about right to me. We offered Holtz over $2m, 6 years ago. Where would that have placed him?

The top 20 salaries are now $4m+. We aren't going to get one of those coaches nor should we pay that much to a coach who hasn't proven they deserve it. So Gaits $172k or $350k or whatever means nothing. Even if we agreed Gait doesn't deserve that much, it doesn't get us a $4m coach. And no I don't care if one coach is top 10% in the ACC and another isn't.

And yes, others do compensate coaches. Booster clubs, individual boosters and the IMGs. None of those top 20 paid coaches are fully compensated by the school alone.

I don't expect us to pay $4m for a HC. But I do want to see us pay our coaches from each program on par with the rest of the conference. Again not in terms of actual dollars, but percentage wise.


We shouldn't be in the 100th percentile for Women's Lax, but 1st percentile for Football.

 

[rrlbees]

I don't expect us to pay $4m for a HC. But I do want to see us pay our coaches from each program on par with the rest of the conference. Again not in terms of actual dollars, but percentage wise. We shouldn't be in the 100th percentile for Women's Lax, but 1st percentile for Football.

Then you need a new football coach. Nobody would have paid shafer more than we did. You guys are arguing the wrong points.

 

[anomander]

Then you need a new football coach. Nobody would have paid shafer more than we did. You guys are arguing the wrong points.

I don't even care if it's for Shafer. Use it for the assistant salary pool. Building a strong support staff is huge now a days. An extra $150k can get you a lot.