Halfcourt offense, and Craig Forth

[jekelish]

Orangezoo has some thoughts on how our halfcourt offense has taken steps back over the years, and one reason why so many undervalued Craig Forth's role in the offense:

http://.com/craig-forth-and-the-lost-art-of-the-ball-screen/

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Nice article. I really wish we would see more of Cooney and Rak on the pick and roll. They tried it a couple times with Cooney and Roberson, but Roberson's not as effective and Cooney doesn't pass the ball well out of that. At least he didn't on Monday. The few times I've seen Rak do it, and it's got to be at the foul line extended, Cooney has gotten freed up because the big doesn't hedge and it's resulted in a great shot. Now we need to see Rak get the feed for the hammer dunk and that will be an unstoppable play.

 

[Coach Orange]

Good article. I have been saying all season that our mediocre execution of fundamentals is a major reason for our struggles this season. To be fair, some of our players are still at the developmental stage of these fundamental skills. They then have to work through proficiency to mastery.

One point about this article's specific point, though: it isn't just the screeners in our offense that have been sloppy; the cutters have been, too. It doesn't really matter if you look at ball screens or off-the-ball screens, our players often don't execute proper fundamentals.

For example, as I was watching Cooney the other night as he tried to use the pin-down screens, it was clear that he would find more separation if he actually came off the screens "shoulder to shoulder" with the screener rather than "banana cutting" off of them. This is not the screener's fault--the cutter must use the screen properly. Jeff Van Gundy says that only bad defensive teams allow players to literally cut shoulder to shoulder, but I think Cooney could still use the screen much more effectively by closing the distance between himself and the screener, even if he isn't literally shoulder to shoulder.

Additionally, our players often don't bump screens properly when defenders cheat up the lane. This plays right into the defense's hands, either by denying the cutter as an option, or stalling the ball in the hands of a closely guarded player on the catch.

Finally, when using ball screens, the player with the ball should take at least two dribbles (again, shoulder to shoulder) to create space for passes or shots. I've noticed several times that G, Cooney, and K Jo don't always do this. A few of those times have resulted in turnovers as the ball handler tried to force a pass to a post player in a crowded lane. At the very least, not taking two clearing dribbles has resulted in wasted activity in these moments as the players did not allow the action to create the space needed to unclog things.

Don Meyer said that reading screens is a lot like reading a book: cutters have to take their time and comprehend the information so they can properly utilize them. In his opinion, it was always best for players to be slower when using screens than quicker. Unfortunately, there are times when our cutters don't do this, and this is not just a "this season" issue.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Good article. I have been saying all season that our mediocre execution of fundamentals is a major reason for our struggles this season. To be fair, some of our players are still at the developmental stage of these fundamental skills. They then have to work through proficiency to mastery.

One point about this article's specific point, though: it isn't just the screeners in our offense that have been sloppy; the cutters have been, too. It doesn't really matter if you look at ball screens or off-the-ball screens, our players often don't execute proper fundamentals.

For example, as I was watching Cooney the other night as he tried to use the pin-down screens, it was clear that he would find more separation if he actually came off the screens "shoulder to shoulder" with the screener rather than "banana cutting" off of them. This is not the screener's fault--the cutter must use the screen properly. Jeff Van Gundy says that only bad defensive teams allow players to literally cut shoulder to shoulder, but I think Cooney could still use the screen much more effectively by closing the distance between himself and the screener, even if he isn't literally shoulder to shoulder.

Additionally, our players often don't bump screens properly when defenders cheat up the lane. This plays right into the defense's hands, either by denying the cutter as an option, or stalling the ball in the hands of a closely guarded player on the catch.

Finally, when using ball screens, the player with the ball should take at least two dribbles (again, shoulder to shoulder) to create space for passes or shots. I've noticed several times that G, Cooney, and K Jo do not always do this. A few of those times have resulted in turnovers as the ball handler tried to force a pass to a post player in a crowded lane. At the very least, not taking two clearing dribbles has resulted in wasted activity in these moments as the players did not allow the action to create the space needed to unclog things.

Don Meyer said that reading screens is a lot like reading a book: cutters have to take their time and comprehend the information so they can properly utilize it. In his opinion, it was always best for players to be slower when using screens than quicker. Unfortunately, there are times when our cutters don't do this, and this is not just a "this season" issue.

Just got smarter once again. Thanks Coach! If you ever want to throw together an article for Otto's Grove, just let me know. I'm well acquainted with the folks that run that joint and I know for sure they would love your insight.

On your last points, and specifically Cooney, do you think because he's always thinking shot first that's one of the reasons he's not great at feeding the screener on the roll? I love the idea of taking the time to allow the screen to fully develop. I know I'll use that during my next game. Awesome stuff.

 

[Coach Orange]

Just got smarter once again. Thanks Coach! If you ever want to throw together an article for Otto's Grove, just let me know. I'm well acquainted with the folks that run that joint and I know for sure they would love your insight.

On your last points, and specifically Cooney, do you think because he's always thinking shot first that's one of the reasons he's not great at feeding the screener on the roll? I love the idea of taking the time to allow the screen to fully develop. I know I'll use that during my next game. Awesome stuff.

Thanks, VT!

If jekelish ever wants me to write something for Otto's Grove, I'd be glad to help out.

As for Cooney, I'd have to watch some tape to know for certain if it is a "shoot first" mentality that leads to his lack of feeding the roll man (The key would be his eyes--are they up so that they can see the play, or are they down, showing that he may be predetermining his shot?). However, I think this aspect of his game goes back to the levels of fundamental skill acquisition.

For his first two seasons of playing here, Cooney looked to be at a developmental level in terms of his ball-handling skills. This season, he has moved into proficiency in most of them, though his step-back jumper is nearing mastery. If he keeps working on his ball-screen skills, he may become more adept at taking two dribbles off of the screen and at seeing the roll man. He will also force fewer shots as he comes off the screen, which means he should be more efficient on the shots he takes.

As for your game, I'm glad that you are going to try slowing down when reading screens. Also, if you don't already, try using a fake before actually cutting to see if the defender tips his hand as to how he plans to defend the cut. Let me know how it works as you practice it.

 

[jekelish]

I'd be happy to have you give us a breakdown in the future, Coach. Thanks for the offer!

It's funny that VT mentioned Cooney, because I've got my own interpretations on why Cooney sometimes struggles with his jumper, but I'd be interested in hearing your breakdown on that, in particularly. I don't think it's his actual "shooting" as much as other factors that cause him to be so streaky (how he catches the ball, whether it's off the dribble, etc...and last year in particular I felt like he was 'over-jumping' if that makes sense...).

 

[Col. Bleep]

Good article. I have been saying all season that our mediocre execution of fundamentals is a major reason for our struggles this season. To be fair, some of our players are still at the developmental stage of these fundamental skills. They then have to work through proficiency to mastery.

One point about this article's specific point, though: it isn't just the screeners in our offense that have been sloppy; the cutters have been, too. It doesn't really matter if you look at ball screens or off-the-ball screens, our players often don't execute proper fundamentals.

For example, as I was watching Cooney the other night as he tried to use the pin-down screens, it was clear that he would find more separation if he actually came off the screens "shoulder to shoulder" with the screener rather than "banana cutting" off of them. This is not the screener's fault--the cutter must use the screen properly. Jeff Van Gundy says that only bad defensive teams allow players to literally cut shoulder to shoulder, but I think Cooney could still use the screen much more effectively by closing the distance between himself and the screener, even if he isn't literally shoulder to shoulder.

Additionally, our players often don't bump screens properly when defenders cheat up the lane. This plays right into the defense's hands, either by denying the cutter as an option, or stalling the ball in the hands of a closely guarded player on the catch.

Finally, when using ball screens, the player with the ball should take at least two dribbles (again, shoulder to shoulder) to create space for passes or shots. I've noticed several times that G, Cooney, and K Jo don't always do this. A few of those times have resulted in turnovers as the ball handler tried to force a pass to a post player in a crowded lane. At the very least, not taking two clearing dribbles has resulted in wasted activity in these moments as the players did not allow the action to create the space needed to unclog things.

Don Meyer said that reading screens is a lot like reading a book: cutters have to take their time and comprehend the information so they can properly utilize them. In his opinion, it was always best for players to be slower when using screens than quicker. Unfortunately, there are times when our cutters don't do this, and this is not just a "this season" issue.

Great stuff...thanks for the info.
All I know about this comes from the few times I get a chance to watch Virginia or Wisconsin.

 

[Brooky03]

Diagne, Bryant, and Coleman are all wide enough that they should be able to set some nice screens.

I never really focussed on it, but how were Jackson and Onuaku at setting picks? I'd imagine they had to be pretty good.

 

[Orangezoo]

Good article. I have been saying all season that our mediocre execution of fundamentals is a major reason for our struggles this season. To be fair, some of our players are still at the developmental stage of these fundamental skills. They then have to work through proficiency to mastery.

One point about this article's specific point, though: it isn't just the screeners in our offense that have been sloppy; the cutters have been, too. It doesn't really matter if you look at ball screens or off-the-ball screens, our players often don't execute proper fundamentals.

For example, as I was watching Cooney the other night as he tried to use the pin-down screens, it was clear that he would find more separation if he actually came off the screens "shoulder to shoulder" with the screener rather than "banana cutting" off of them. This is not the screener's fault--the cutter must use the screen properly. Jeff Van Gundy says that only bad defensive teams allow players to literally cut shoulder to shoulder, but I think Cooney could still use the screen much more effectively by closing the distance between himself and the screener, even if he isn't literally shoulder to shoulder.

Additionally, our players often don't bump screens properly when defenders cheat up the lane. This plays right into the defense's hands, either by denying the cutter as an option, or stalling the ball in the hands of a closely guarded player on the catch.

Finally, when using ball screens, the player with the ball should take at least two dribbles (again, shoulder to shoulder) to create space for passes or shots. I've noticed several times that G, Cooney, and K Jo don't always do this. A few of those times have resulted in turnovers as the ball handler tried to force a pass to a post player in a crowded lane. At the very least, not taking two clearing dribbles has resulted in wasted activity in these moments as the players did not allow the action to create the space needed to unclog things.

Don Meyer said that reading screens is a lot like reading a book: cutters have to take their time and comprehend the information so they can properly utilize them. In his opinion, it was always best for players to be slower when using screens than quicker. Unfortunately, there are times when our cutters don't do this, and this is not just a "this season" issue.

Totally agree and after writing it up I thought of exactly that especially when hunting for good examples. I always felt Rautins used screens really well and would take that extra dribble or two to get him self the space. Would be awesome to get your insight and breakdown CO!!

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Good article. I have been saying all season that our mediocre execution of fundamentals is a major reason for our struggles this season. To be fair, some of our players are still at the developmental stage of these fundamental skills. They then have to work through proficiency to mastery.

One point about this article's specific point, though: it isn't just the screeners in our offense that have been sloppy; the cutters have been, too. It doesn't really matter if you look at ball screens or off-the-ball screens, our players often don't execute proper fundamentals.

For example, as I was watching Cooney the other night as he tried to use the pin-down screens, it was clear that he would find more separation if he actually came off the screens "shoulder to shoulder" with the screener rather than "banana cutting" off of them. This is not the screener's fault--the cutter must use the screen properly. Jeff Van Gundy says that only bad defensive teams allow players to literally cut shoulder to shoulder, but I think Cooney could still use the screen much more effectively by closing the distance between himself and the screener, even if he isn't literally shoulder to shoulder.

Additionally, our players often don't bump screens properly when defenders cheat up the lane. This plays right into the defense's hands, either by denying the cutter as an option, or stalling the ball in the hands of a closely guarded player on the catch.

Finally, when using ball screens, the player with the ball should take at least two dribbles (again, shoulder to shoulder) to create space for passes or shots. I've noticed several times that G, Cooney, and K Jo don't always do this. A few of those times have resulted in turnovers as the ball handler tried to force a pass to a post player in a crowded lane. At the very least, not taking two clearing dribbles has resulted in wasted activity in these moments as the players did not allow the action to create the space needed to unclog things.

Don Meyer said that reading screens is a lot like reading a book: cutters have to take their time and comprehend the information so they can properly utilize them. In his opinion, it was always best for players to be slower when using screens than quicker. Unfortunately, there are times when our cutters don't do this, and this is not just a "this season" issue.

Good stuff. Always wish that you would post more often.

 

[TinyManInside]

Good article. I have been saying all season that our mediocre execution of fundamentals is a major reason for our struggles this season. To be fair, some of our players are still at the developmental stage of these fundamental skills. They then have to work through proficiency to mastery.

One point about this article's specific point, though: it isn't just the screeners in our offense that have been sloppy; the cutters have been, too. It doesn't really matter if you look at ball screens or off-the-ball screens, our players often don't execute proper fundamentals.

For example, as I was watching Cooney the other night as he tried to use the pin-down screens, it was clear that he would find more separation if he actually came off the screens "shoulder to shoulder" with the screener rather than "banana cutting" off of them. This is not the screener's fault--the cutter must use the screen properly. Jeff Van Gundy says that only bad defensive teams allow players to literally cut shoulder to shoulder, but I think Cooney could still use the screen much more effectively by closing the distance between himself and the screener, even if he isn't literally shoulder to shoulder.

Additionally, our players often don't bump screens properly when defenders cheat up the lane. This plays right into the defense's hands, either by denying the cutter as an option, or stalling the ball in the hands of a closely guarded player on the catch.

Finally, when using ball screens, the player with the ball should take at least two dribbles (again, shoulder to shoulder) to create space for passes or shots. I've noticed several times that G, Cooney, and K Jo don't always do this. A few of those times have resulted in turnovers as the ball handler tried to force a pass to a post player in a crowded lane. At the very least, not taking two clearing dribbles has resulted in wasted activity in these moments as the players did not allow the action to create the space needed to unclog things.

Don Meyer said that reading screens is a lot like reading a book: cutters have to take their time and comprehend the information so they can properly utilize them. In his opinion, it was always best for players to be slower when using screens than quicker. Unfortunately, there are times when our cutters don't do this, and this is not just a "this season" issue.

Thanks for this great post. I've never thought about using the 'slow down' method but I will definitely try it next time I'm on the court. The shoulder to shoulder vs. banana cut observation is dead on as well. Another thing that I think Cooney could benefit from is learning how to turn a bad screen into a good one. Sometimes you can get mileage out of taking one step back towards the screener then changing your exit angle if the screener doesn't move (not sure if I'm describing this well but it is a technique I often use when I'm playing with someone who is unfamiliar with my playing style or doesn't know how to screen).

I play hoops 3 times a week and I have a friend who is extremely analytical and he asked me the other day why my shooting is sometimes inconsistent. I told him that as a player who is primarily an outside shooter, most of the times it takes 3 people executing together for me to shoot a high percentage. Not only do I need to have a person who can help me execute a screen, I also have to have a passer who knows where, and more importantly WHEN to deliver the ball. If the timing is off even a little, it will mess up my footwork and I'll miss.

All of that is basically a longwinded way of saying that one major issue that I've noticed with this team is several players have timing issues when it comes to passing (most notably Joseph and Cooney). I'm amazed at how effective Rak has been considering how many times the passer is delivering the ball to him AFTER he is set and comfortable to receive it. How many times have we seen him catch a pass and have to completely reset his footwork prior to making a move? A lot... Effective offensive execution requires good timing in all regards.

-mason

 

[Coach Orange]

I'd be happy to have you give us a breakdown in the future, Coach. Thanks for the offer!

It's funny that VT mentioned Cooney, because I've got my own interpretations on why Cooney sometimes struggles with his jumper, but I'd be interested in hearing your breakdown on that, in particularly. I don't think it's his actual "shooting" as much as other factors that cause him to be so streaky (how he catches the ball, whether it's off the dribble, etc...and last year in particular I felt like he was 'over-jumping' if that makes sense...).

Would be glad to do so.

As for Cooney's shooting, I agree with you. There are times (especially last year) when Trevor doesn't fully square himself before shooting. He also has moments when he doesn't jump straight (he isn't shooting in the phone booth, so to speak). These two things make shooting consistently more difficult. I totally understand your "over-jumping" idea, too. I agree that he has been guilty of that, especially when face-guarded. He has been much better this season in terms of these issues, though. Again, this seems to a be a progression of his fundamental skills from developmental to proficient.

At this point, his lack of athleticism still hurts him against faster, stronger guards, making shooting more difficult for him. This is where slowing his cuts down (and then exploding once he makes the proper read) may help provide the separation needed to get cleaner looks. This may allow him to not "over-jump" or to square up more effectively. It may also afford him more easy layups as he learns to cut backdoor more against defensive overplays.

What is exciting is it seems that, while many of his offensive fundamentals are currently at the proficiency stage, some appear to be on the verge of mastery. Working hard through the rest of this season and through another off-season should help him bring these skills to the next level.

 

[stuckinbig11]

some of us knew Craig's value all along

 

[Orangezoo]

some of us knew Craig's value all along

I will still never forget the comment he snuck in at the dome celebration of the title about picking a good night to play well. Great shot at all the doubters. I never had the luxury of seeing him practice but he graced archbold with his presence numerous times and it was incredible how good he was. Remember him taking trashtalk from some kid thinking he was gonna school forth because craig was slow. Craig blocked him catching the shot with one hand then crossed the kid up to the hoop for the dunk and smiled. Miss that dude in orange.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

Good article. I have been saying all season that our mediocre execution of fundamentals is a major reason for our struggles this season. To be fair, some of our players are still at the developmental stage of these fundamental skills. They then have to work through proficiency to mastery.

One point about this article's specific point, though: it isn't just the screeners in our offense that have been sloppy; the cutters have been, too. It doesn't really matter if you look at ball screens or off-the-ball screens, our players often don't execute proper fundamentals.

For example, as I was watching Cooney the other night as he tried to use the pin-down screens, it was clear that he would find more separation if he actually came off the screens "shoulder to shoulder" with the screener rather than "banana cutting" off of them. This is not the screener's fault--the cutter must use the screen properly. Jeff Van Gundy says that only bad defensive teams allow players to literally cut shoulder to shoulder, but I think Cooney could still use the screen much more effectively by closing the distance between himself and the screener, even if he isn't literally shoulder to shoulder.

Additionally, our players often don't bump screens properly when defenders cheat up the lane. This plays right into the defense's hands, either by denying the cutter as an option, or stalling the ball in the hands of a closely guarded player on the catch.

Finally, when using ball screens, the player with the ball should take at least two dribbles (again, shoulder to shoulder) to create space for passes or shots. I've noticed several times that G, Cooney, and K Jo don't always do this. A few of those times have resulted in turnovers as the ball handler tried to force a pass to a post player in a crowded lane. At the very least, not taking two clearing dribbles has resulted in wasted activity in these moments as the players did not allow the action to create the space needed to unclog things.

Don Meyer said that reading screens is a lot like reading a book: cutters have to take their time and comprehend the information so they can properly utilize them. In his opinion, it was always best for players to be slower when using screens than quicker. Unfortunately, there are times when our cutters don't do this, and this is not just a "this season" issue.

And on the other end of the court, our guards are getting swallowed by the opponents big on a high screen, leading to so many uncontested 3s. I find myself yelling about that most while watching these games. This crew is weak on fighting through those and knocking a shooter off balance. Kaleb literally disappears at times, but Ron's ability to push through are the reason he is playing at all.

 

[Toga]

Thanks, VT!

If jekelish ever wants me to write something for Otto's Grove, I'd be glad to help out.

As for Cooney, I'd have to watch some tape to know for certain if it is a "shoot first" mentality that leads to his lack of feeding the roll man (The key would be his eyes--are they up so that they can see the play, or are they down, showing that he may be predetermining his shot?). However, I think this aspect of his game goes back to the levels of fundamental skill acquisition.

For his first two seasons of playing here, Cooney looked to be at a developmental level in terms of his ball-handling skills. This season, he has moved into proficiency in most of them, though his step-back jumper is nearing mastery. If he keeps working on his ball-screen skills, he may become more adept at taking two dribbles off of the screen and at seeing the roll man. He will also force fewer shots as he comes off the screen, which means he should be more efficient on the shots he takes.

As for your game, I'm glad that you are going to try slowing down when reading screens. Also, if you don't already, try using a fake before actually cutting to see if the defender tips his hand as to how he plans to defend the cut. Let me know how it works as you practice it.

The step back jumper should be a staple in Cooney's (and others) games. It's not that difficult a shot as you are only looking at a 12 foot shot and one is invariably squared up to the basket at the point of release.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

And on the other end of the court, our guards are getting swallowed by the opponents big on a high screen, leading to so many uncontested 3s. I find myself yelling about that most while watching these games. This crew is weak on fighting through those and knocking a shooter off balance. Kaleb literally disappears at times, but Ron's ability to push through are the reason he is playing at all.

Lots of those are moving screens though. Tough to fight through those. But your point is well taken.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

Lots of those are moving screens though. Tough to fight through those. But your point is well taken.

There was one called in the 1st half in Chapel Hill, of course it helps when JB is right in the ear of the ref pointing it out. The moving screen, along with the charge call seems to depend on who is calling the game that day, they are not called with any consistency. So players should be aware and simply fight to get to the ball. Showing effort to get around the screener can help in a foul call in your favor.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

There was one called in the 1st half in Chapel Hill, of course it helps when JB is right in the ear of the ref pointing it out. The moving screen, along with the charge call seems to depend on who is calling the game that day, they are not called with any consistency.

I saw JB pointing it out, but I was sure it was the ref hearing me scream about it all the way up here in VT. Drives me bonkers how often our 180 lbs guards get leveled by 250 lbs forwards/centers. They have to be battered at the ends of games.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

I saw JB pointing it out, but I was sure it was the ref hearing me scream about it all the way up here in VT. Drives me bonkers how often our 180 lbs guards get leveled by 250 lbs forwards/centers. They have to be battered at the ends of games.

yep, they get bullied. And once they decide to go behind the screener towards the basket, they have lost and that zone breakdown provides so much space out there with one less defender it's 5 on 4 with all that room to drain threes. See Clemson. Cooney knows how to play the screen about as well as any of them, but late in games, or late in the shot clock, he tires and doesn't always get out to the shooter either. If Kaleb can learn to be more of a pest, he can get some foul calls and harass shooters better, otherwise we can expect to see O/D subs with Ron coming in late in games to provide some resistance.