Harvard Gameday… | Page 23 | Syracusefan.com

Harvard Gameday…

yea but think if could maby drop english with 2nd line move bear up (as thompson would been thought but he back at attack full time) that way 2nd line has a senior presence with them. Maby can help talk them thru what to do or how to attack. But yea to me their just there to give first line breather n to not try do to much or cost us. Which i get but same time if can get them to point they can produce decent amount only makes your team more dangerous. But like said have no idea what goes on at practice .
 
Re Cordes... we only see what goes on on game days and not what happens during the week at practice. Maybe he's hurting or maybe the other three on 2nds just outperforming him? My guess, he's banged up.

I think fans should consider the 2nds a supporting cast, there mainly to give the 1sts a rest, and if they should score as all three have, it's bonus points.

Losing Birtwistle didn't help things...

Not sure if he got hurt or not. If I remember correctly he took two pretty poor shots against Notre Dame, then they inserted Anderson who has played well. I kind of think he was benched, but not sure. He didn't play against Duke or Harvard. In the eight games since the Hopkins game (when he had four points), he has shot 2-13 with two assists. The Hopkins game was great, but since then it's been a rough go. Anderson has been shooting 4-7 in three games since replacing him in the Notre Dame game.

I do think we need more production out of the second line. I understand the expectations aren't as high as they are for the first line, but you need to get something out of that unit.

Since the Notre Dame game, Hottle and McCarthy have combined to go 1-11 shooting, with one assist, and five turnovers. That is not even close to good enough. Last year the second line group of Rhoa, Jake Stevens and Birtwistle combined for 61 points in 18 games. I know the second line has gone through a ton of personnel changes due to injuries and performance, but we aren't getting close to that kind of production this year.

I think the hope of the second line is that you see a spark, or improvement that lets you believe that player could join the first line when the time comes. Would you want Hottle or McCarthy to be a first line midfielder next year? Sorry, not trying to be negative, but I would be very concerned if you told me one of those two was supposed to replace English on the first line next year. McCarthy I can see the athleticism and I think there is a good player there, but he's had serious shooting issues this year, and is having trouble asserting himself. I like Hottle, but I think his shooting power holds him back from being a first line midfielder. I wonder to myself if he would be a better attackman, but I also don't want him to play attack for SU.
 
Long one here so fair warning.

It was a rollercoaster in the dome. I did not feel like we were playing that bad in the first quarter. Had some solid looks at the cage that we did not quite finish. Meanwhile Harvard is getting similar quality looks but the ball is finding the back of the cage. It was really the second quarter where the doom and gloom set in. Offensively we were getting in our own way more often than they were shutting us down. Some dumb turnovers and missed gimmies from Hiltz, English looking all over the place, some routine passes on the clear getting dropped, losing the speed battle a couple times in transition, hottle dropping his entire freaking stick on a turnover, McCool struggling. Still it felt like a game where the offense was going to get going once they got out of their own way. We had some quality looks where we just didn't finish. My main concern was the defensive end where we had a lot of guys allowing separation 1v1 and McCool not getting saves.

Lowest point in the game was in the third quarter when we are trying to finally get that third goal and English drops a routine pass from Rhoa, picks up the gb, and then immediately throws it away, all fairly close to where I was sitting. Started to really lose my cool then and would have said any number of terrible things in the game thread if I was watching from home. If there is one game to not feel guilty about saying wild stuff in the game thread it is this one!! A lot of these plays were a reflection or a recurring problem all year, our lack of depth for midfield athletes at all positions. The fact that English is still ALIVE right now, let alone still playing, is a testament to his insane motor.

But the main point is this - yes this team is guilty of some undisciplined and sloppy play, but at no point this season have I felt like the issue is a lack of effort, or a lack of desire to win. I was on the opposite side of the benches, so watching the replay I was pleased to see the level of commraderie and support guys were giving eachother after goals and in timeouts. Guys were smiling, hugging eachother, arms around shoulders, gassing eachother up after goals, trying to get the crowd going, and several other things that showed a clear high level of intensity and motivation. After the Caccamo goal to cut it to 4 my confidence was quickly growing. Gait is always looking as calm as ever, but his players do not play or act at all passive during games. His sideline demeanor does not reflect the overall attitude of the team he coaches, which is anything but passive.

The other thing is that it is just hard as hell to play 4 quarters of clean lacrosse, especially with the intensity of a playoff game. I came away from this game with a tremendous amount of respect for coach Bryne and the Harvard team, but how are Harvard fans feeling about giving up 7 goals in the 4th quarter and only scoring 4 in the second half? How are Harvard fans feeling about 4 4th quarter penalties? The Caccamo one was the only slighty questionable one (thought it was more like a trip than a push), but the others were clear as day! What on earth was that guy thinking cross checking spallina in the face as his head is down for a gb at that point in the game?? He has time to think it through and decides to bum rush him with his hands completely separated on his stick. They were extremely lucky to not get two locked in minutes for that. How do they feel about Ip trying to plow through three guys on their final settled possession? As mad as we get at our own teams sloppy/undisciplined moments, our opponents are always guilty of similar errors.

I am not saying we should stop critiquing players and staff when these bad plays happen. I think both players and staff are implicated in some of the trends this season. Just keep in mind that the reason these mistakes occur is not because guys are disinterested. This is not a team that was doing kegstands the night before and just want the season to end so they can enjoy their summer. They were laying it all on the line for a win and never gave up. If Gait and co.'s message is just keep the calm groovy vibes going and things will work themselves out, then we do not see that late game comeback and we do not see the high levels of emotion from the players. This team has flaws, but they do not shy away from a challenge, and they hate losing, so the staff is doing something right.
 
No, we probably don’t, but if their goalie doesn’t stand on his head and we don’t hit pipes, they lose by 5+. They clearly played better in the first 40 minutes though.

We had 12 unforced turnovers, and they had I believe 7 more saves than us, so they made up 19 of the possessions we gained (by dominating face offs), between their goalie and our sloppiness. (Those 19 lost possessions for us had very little to do with Harvard’s other nine guys on the field out playing us). They also only had two more forced turnovers than us, so it was as much us beating ourselves as it was them beating us.

They clearly won three things. The first 40 minutes, ground balls (not including face offs) and goalkeeping. We clearly won face offs, shots, shots on goal, dominated the last 20 minutes, and made better adjustments. So in my eyes, we played fairly evenly, but we just made one more play than them.

We have also fought uphill battles with penalties all year, and were overdue to have a game where we were less penalized.

I read the three pages of the Harvard lacrosse forum. (They obviously don’t care about lacrosse as much as we do). There was not one post in three pages where someone felt that “they dominated the game but lost”. Quite the opposite, it seems like they expected it and gave us credit for being more clutch than them.
Great points. I agree with you. At least in terms of how I evaluate a team though, I look for:

On offense
-who wins the 1v1 matchups
-who moves without the ball
-who finds the open players
-who limits turnovers
-who shoots better

On defense
-who wins the 1v1 matchups
-who slides to help (and who doesn’t slide to help too early)
-who creates turnovers
-who clears better

And which goalie plays better

Man-up and Man-down teams are also important (kind of like special teams in football)

I think Harvard was better than us at almost every one of those measures above (except for man-up and man-down performance), but I think we won because we dominated face-offs (even the man-up run we had in the 4th was only possible because we dominated the face-offs). We dominated face offs, so we got a lot more possessions, which means more shots and more shots on goal. Their goalie finished the game with a 46% save percentage, which is not that good. It was still obviously better than McCools 29% save percentage, but wait ‘til you see Princeton’s goalie, Croddick! He’s excellent.

In years past, it’s been the opposite, and we’ve lost playoff games just because we got dominated at face-offs, even though we were the better offense and defense. I used to hate that feeling! I may be in the minority, but I think the face-off should be removed from the game. In the end though, face offs domination can only carry a team so far, and if we don’t play better on offense, defense, and in goal, then even if we dominate face-offs against Princeton, it still won’t be enough.

Also I’m thrilled that lacrosse will be in the ‘28 LA Olympics, and although Sixes is not ‘real lacrosse’, I am looking forward to watching a lacrosse game where face-offs are basically eliminated. May the best ‘team’ win (unfortunately, it may be Canada)
 
1:40 which saved a season:

10:28 Luke Rhoa [7-11]

10:13 Harvard penalty 1:00 cross check unreleaseable

10:00 Trey Deere from Spallina (Man-Up) [8-11]

9:49 Chuck Kuczynski from Thomson (Man-Up) [9-11]

9:11 Trey Deere from Hiltz (Man-Up) [10-11]

8:49 Luke Rhoa from Leo [11-11]
 
No, we probably don’t, but if their goalie doesn’t stand on his head and we don’t hit pipes, they lose by 5+. They clearly played better in the first 40 minutes though.

We had 12 unforced turnovers, and they had I believe 7 more saves than us, so they made up 19 of the possessions we gained (by dominating face offs), between their goalie and our sloppiness. (Those 19 lost possessions for us had very little to do with Harvard’s other nine guys on the field out playing us). They also only had two more forced turnovers than us, so it was as much us beating ourselves as it was them beating us.

They clearly won three things. The first 40 minutes, ground balls (not including face offs) and goalkeeping. We clearly won face offs, shots, shots on goal, dominated the last 20 minutes, and made better adjustments. So in my eyes, we played fairly evenly, but we just made one more play than them.

We have also fought uphill battles with penalties all year, and were overdue to have a game where we were less penalized.

I read the three pages of the Harvard lacrosse forum. (They obviously don’t care about lacrosse as much as we do). There was not one post in three pages where someone felt that “they dominated the game but lost”. Quite the opposite, it seems like they expected it and gave us credit for being more clutch than them.

Sorry to inquire again but curious where this harvard lacrosse forum is, usually I can find most teams message boards even with google I am coming up empty. Can you link to it?
 
Yes he specified February on last weeks Syracuse Lacrosse show
Cold and snow. Games like that in the northeast are meant to be played in the Dome. I wasn't questioning you saying it, but the wisdom of scheduling it.
 
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late feb cambridge more likely facing cold rain or sleet if the weather is inclement. not snow.
 
Sorry to inquire again but curious where this harvard lacrosse forum is, usually I can find most teams message boards even with google I am coming up empty. Can you link
Sorry to inquire again but curious where this harvard lacrosse forum is, usually I can find most teams message boards even with google I am coming up empty. Can you link to it?
go to Fanlax.com. You will need to put in Harvard 2025 for the search because for some reason it defaults to 2024.
 
Love this community…

Lose to MD on cold, rainy day in College Park…”Travesty that they don’t get more experience playing outdoors in the elements!”

Schedule home-and-home with Harvard … “What were they thinking? It will be cold outdoors in February!”
 

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