Have we as fans lost perspective? | Syracusefan.com

Have we as fans lost perspective?

wfschrec

Minister Of Defense
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
4,806
Like
3,523
Lets face it I am as disappointed by our last two losses as anyone but can we put a few things in perspective before we throw ourselves off a bridge? We had all acknowledged the fact that this team stood to take a step back this season, tougher schedule, losing Hogue, Smith and Carter and Bart. How far have they fallen off in reality?

Last season you had the following:
Akron W
UW L
Maine W
Colgate W
USF W
Pitt L
WVU W
Cincy W
Louisville L
RU W
UConn L
BC L
KSU W (Bowl game)

This season here is where we stand:
WF W (Far better team than Akron)
RI W (Granted a bad performance but I consider them better than Colgate)
USC L (Better team than UW IMHO)
Toledo W (Better than BC hands down)
Rutgers L
Tulane W (Better than Maine IMHO)
WVU W
Louisville L
UConn L
USF TBD
Cincy TBD
Pitt TBD

Lets face it ... they played a tougher schedule and really the team is hovering around where I expected them to be. The WVU game raised a lot of expectations way too quickly. If you compare this season and last I think we expected more from a team that lost their core leadership on both sides of the ball with Bart/Carter and Hogue/Smith gone ... against a tougher schedule.

I felt the team played USC much tougher than the played UW and if you compare the two Rutgers games we were two San san Te missed FGs last season from losing to them by the same exact margin as this season.

I felt they played UConn tougher than last season and you are squaring off against a team that has a new staff that has two seasons worth of film on us and we don't have a ton of good film on them. Louisville is a better team than last season and played like it against us ... after they beat WVU I feel a whole lot better ... Bridgewater was the #6 QB recruit in the nation and will be a difference maker, he is improving and showing it.

We smashed WVU, they are an ideal matchup for us small upfront and very very undisciplined and in a new system on O and can put points on the board no matter who they play (LSU for instance) and the best way to beat them is to outscore them and we did that convincingly. We have a very good play action QB and that was a big difference in that game.

Right now we can't line up against a larger ball club and play smashmouth with them and that is how a team can beat us, unfortunately we play a bunch of teams (UConn, RU, and Pitt) that like to do that. Ideally we matchup well with the Big12 style used by KSU or WVU as evidence by our success against them both. Once Marrone gets the horses up front I feel we will see significant results, OL recruiting is very difficult and I feel getting Trudo, Curtis, Knapp and Emerich will pay dividends soon.

I think we play the right style of ball and USF is an ideal opponent for us, just like last season and I think we can become bowl bound on Friday. Cincy is tough and I don't expect last season's results to repeat themselves in that game (since Chazz Anderson isn't QBing) and I think Pitt is just too big upfront for us to dominate and while the game might be close throughout (I don't expect a slaughter like last season) I think we lose going away.

Look like every fan I would like more Ws but I do see some incremental (albeit small increments) progress with this ball club. It is truly hard to remain optimistic because of the Ls but I feel that when some of these froshs and sophs get their feet and get more run we will see marked improvement. I feel we have a bright future with Crume, Trudo, Brantley, Curtis, Knapp and Emerich and I think they are more so the key to our success than other positions.

Just my two cents fellas.
 

rrlbees

2017 ESPN Tourney Challenge Winner
Staff member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
93,297
Like
170,435
Why does everyone want to discount the fact that 3 of our losses have been to teams with the same or less talent? We lost guys, so did they. I also don't care that teams like Tulane and RI are better than teams we played last year...they are both horrible, horrible, horrible. There is no way in hell that anyone should even be hinting that Marrone should be replaced. But that doesn't mean that we should be spinning things about the performances on the field against teams that have less talent than us or similar. Again, only USC, WF and WVU can be argued as having more talent than us. We are 2-0 in squeakers vs. teams we have a LOT more talent than (RI/Tulane), 0-1 vs. teams we have more talent than (UConn), and 1-2 vs. teams we are comparable in talent with (Toledo, rutgers, LVille).
 
K

kingottoiii

Guest
We had a tougher schedule OOC. We had an easier one in the BE. We went from 3 home games last year to four this year. The fact that we did well OCC this year and have struggled in BE play is worrisome. We need 3 BE Ws or this is a disappointing season. I still think we get there.
 

suthrills

Scout Team
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
446
Like
174
Bees is 100% right. You can't compare last years schedule to this years schedule. Look at what other teams lost.
Uconn blows and if you aren't disappointed in what you saw yesterday your expectations must be low.
 

SWC75

Bored Historian
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
28,096
Like
53,068
Win one of the next three and bowl game and we'll feel just like we did at the end of last season.
 
K

kingottoiii

Guest
Win one of the next three and bowl game and we'll feel just like we did at the end of last season.

Not at all. The BE is worse this year and we had 4 conf home games. Going 2-5 in the BE will raise a lot of red flags.
 

wfschrec

Minister Of Defense
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
4,806
Like
3,523
Why does everyone want to discount the fact that 3 of our losses have been to teams with the same or less talent? We lost guys, so did they. I also don't care that tams like Tulane and RI are better than teams we played last year...they are both horrible, horrible, horrible. There is no way in hell that anyone should even be hinting that Marrone should be replaced. But that doesn't mean that we should be spinning things about the performances on the field against teams that have less talent than us or similar. Again, only USC, WF and WVU can be argued as having more talent than us. We are 2-0 in squeakers vs. teams we have a LOT more talent than (RI/Tulane), 0-1 vs. teams we have more talent than (UConn), and 1-2 vs. teams we are comparable in talent with (Toledo, rutgers, LVille).

USC, RU, and LVille have had higher ranked recruiting classes than us over the last 4 seasons .. hell Marrone didn't even have a full class in 09 ... not sure where this equal or lesser talent thing is coming from .. UConn I will give you 100% ... but lets get realistic here ... just because you say we are more talented doesn't make it so ... there are many recruitnicks that disagree ...
 

SWC75

Bored Historian
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
28,096
Like
53,068
Not at all. The BE is worse this year and we had 4 conf home games. Going 2-5 in the BE will raise a lot of red flags.

But we won't be waving them if we win another bowl game.
 

rrlbees

2017 ESPN Tourney Challenge Winner
Staff member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
93,297
Like
170,435
USC, RU, and LVille have had higher ranked recruiting classes than us over the last 4 seasons .. hell Marrone didn't even have a full class in 09 ... not sure where this equal or lesser talent thing is coming from .. UConn I will give you 100% ... but lets get realistic here ... just because you say we are more talented doesn't make it so ... there are many recruitnicks that disagree ...

I said USC has more talent, that's a given. Not sure why you include them. Lville has had a better last couple classes but SU in the upper classes has had better ones. But it's not like Lville has had Alabama classes. They started 7 frosh against us. Freshman. Their talent is comparable to ours as neither has wiped the recruiting trail with the other. Same as Rutgers. They have nothing on offense except Sanu. They are worse on offense than we are. As to the rankings you mean like a 4/5 star kid like Huggins? He is horrible, at least this year. He gets like 2 carries a game now for 3 yards. Their OLine is worse. Again, like I said, rutgers, Lville and SU have comparable talent on the filed. You would think we wouldn't lose all 3.
 

KCJax03

Scout Team
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
283
Like
362
From the perspective of a 40 year old, I have seen SU teams under MacPherson, Pasqualoni, Robinson and Marrone. I thought and still do believe that Marrone was a positive hire and a move back to what I consider to be Syracuse football roots. Yesterday was hard to take because it was so opposite of everything I attributed to Marrone coached teams:

1. Doing more with less
2. Being competitive from from start to finish
3. Finding ways to win against better opponents
4. Putting forth maximum EFFORT all the time

Yesterday I watched one lousy football team beat another. Wish I could give Uconn more credit but I think that was a bad football team. Once SU took the opening 2nd half posession 80 yards to take the lead 14 -7 I thought they would roll over Uconn.

Despite the issues with the kicking game I was convinced they could not sustain drives against a Syracuse defense that appeared to settle down in the first half. Uconn's QB looked confused and outclassed to say the least for much of the first half.

I couldn't believe the complete inability of Syracuse to stop an extremely limited offense the entire 2nd half.

At this point I cannot see Syracuse winning another game this year if they continue to play this way.

I am however going to be very interested to see what Marrone does to turn this around. Will we see a completely different team take the field against USF? Or are we stuck with what we've seen the last two weeks for the remainder of the season?
 

suthrills

Scout Team
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
446
Like
174
USC, RU, and LVille have had higher ranked recruiting classes than us over the last 4 seasons .. hell Marrone didn't even have a full class in 09 ... not sure where this equal or lesser talent thing is coming from .. UConn I will give you 100% ... but lets get realistic here ... just because you say we are more talented doesn't make it so ... there are many recruitnicks that disagree ...
Recruitnicks don't matter. Everyone knows the top 100-150 kids then it's a crapshoot. You have to watch the games and see how the kids develop. Uconn won the BE last year probably without a single 4 or 5 star recruit. Cincy won without high ranked recruiting classes. Pitt and Rutgers never play up to their recruiting rankings. Watch the games and tell me if you are impressed with Rutgers and their high ranked classes. The BE as a whole stinks and it's deflating that we can't rise to the top of this mess.
 

Cuseman78

All Conference
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Messages
2,956
Like
2,745
Not at all. The BE is worse this year and we had 4 conf home games. Going 2-5 in the BE will raise a lot of red flags.

Wasn't that what you expected preseason? 6-6?
 

Cuseman78

All Conference
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Messages
2,956
Like
2,745
Lets face it I am as disappointed by our last two losses as anyone but can we put a few things in perspective before we throw ourselves off a bridge? We had all acknowledged the fact that this team stood to take a step back this season, tougher schedule, losing Hogue, Smith and Carter and Bart. How far have they fallen off in reality?

Last season you had the following:
Akron W
UW L
Maine W
Colgate W
USF W
Pitt L
WVU W
Cincy W
Louisville L
RU W
UConn L
BC L
KSU W (Bowl game)

This season here is where we stand:
WF W (Far better team than Akron)
RI W (Granted a bad performance but I consider them better than Colgate)
USC L (Better team than UW IMHO)
Toledo W (Better than BC hands down)
Rutgers L
Tulane W (Better than Maine IMHO)
WVU W
Louisville L
UConn L
USF TBD
Cincy TBD
Pitt TBD

Lets face it ... they played a tougher schedule and really the team is hovering around where I expected them to be. The WVU game raised a lot of expectations way too quickly. If you compare this season and last I think we expected more from a team that lost their core leadership on both sides of the ball with Bart/Carter and Hogue/Smith gone ... against a tougher schedule.

I felt the team played USC much tougher than the played UW and if you compare the two Rutgers games we were two San san Te missed FGs last season from losing to them by the same exact margin as this season.

I felt they played UConn tougher than last season and you are squaring off against a team that has a new staff that has two seasons worth of film on us and we don't have a ton of good film on them. Louisville is a better team than last season and played like it against us ... after they beat WVU I feel a whole lot better ... Bridgewater was the #6 QB recruit in the nation and will be a difference maker, he is improving and showing it.

We smashed WVU, they are an ideal matchup for us small upfront and very very undisciplined and in a new system on O and can put points on the board no matter who they play (LSU for instance) and the best way to beat them is to outscore them and we did that convincingly. We have a very good play action QB and that was a big difference in that game.

Right now we can't line up against a larger ball club and play smashmouth with them and that is how a team can beat us, unfortunately we play a bunch of teams (UConn, RU, and Pitt) that like to do that. Ideally we matchup well with the Big12 style used by KSU or WVU as evidence by our success against them both. Once Marrone gets the horses up front I feel we will see significant results, OL recruiting is very difficult and I feel getting Trudo, Curtis, Knapp and Emerich will pay dividends soon.

I think we play the right style of ball and USF is an ideal opponent for us, just like last season and I think we can become bowl bound on Friday. Cincy is tough and I don't expect last season's results to repeat themselves in that game (since Chazz Anderson isn't QBing) and I think Pitt is just too big upfront for us to dominate and while the game might be close throughout (I don't expect a slaughter like last season) I think we lose going away.

Look like every fan I would like more Ws but I do see some incremental (albeit small increments) progress with this ball club. It is truly hard to remain optimistic because of the Ls but I feel that when some of these froshs and sophs get their feet and get more run we will see marked improvement. I feel we have a bright future with Crume, Trudo, Brantley, Curtis, Knapp and Emerich and I think they are more so the key to our success than other positions.

Just my two cents fellas.

This type of post rarely plays well here but its well said. I'm with you
 

orange03

Starter
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,085
Like
263
I don't know, it's like some people are content with being mediocre. I obviously don't expect us to compete for BCS bowls at this point, but I don't see how you can't be disappointed with our play up to this point. (Sans WVU for those who will point to this game)
 

wfschrec

Minister Of Defense
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
4,806
Like
3,523
Recruitnicks don't matter. Everyone knows the top 100-150 kids then it's a crapshoot. You have to watch the games and see how the kids develop. Uconn won the BE last year probably without a single 4 or 5 star recruit. Cincy won without high ranked recruiting classes. Pitt and Rutgers never play up to their recruiting rankings. Watch the games and tell me if you are impressed with Rutgers and their high ranked classes. The BE as a whole stinks and it's deflating that we can't rise to the top of this mess.

Thats funny I guess they only matter when everyone is bemoaning how poorly ranked our classes are ... can't have it both ways. FWIW Rutgers has better skill position players on offense than we do ... we have no Sanu or Coleman or Harrison ... if their OL didn't suck they would win more games ... period end of story.
 

wfschrec

Minister Of Defense
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
4,806
Like
3,523
I don't know, it's like some people are content with being mediocre. I obviously don't expect us to compete for BCS bowls at this point, but I don't see how you can't be disappointed with our play up to this point. (Sans WVU for those who will point to this game)

Never said I wasn't however people fail to temper their expectations against the reality of how things are ... as I said the WVU win made many here way too giddy (myself included) and after watching them lose to UL there isn't much to be giddy about anymore.
 

wfschrec

Minister Of Defense
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
4,806
Like
3,523
I said USC has more talent, that's a given. Not sure why you include them. Lville has had a better last couple classes but SU in the upper classes has had better ones. But it's not like Lville has had Alabama classes. They started 7 frosh against us. Freshman. Their talent is comparable to ours as neither has wiped the recruiting trail with the other. Same as Rutgers. They have nothing on offense except Sanu. They are worse on offense than we are. As to the rankings you mean like a 4/5 star kid like Huggins? He is horrible, at least this year. He gets like 2 carries a game now for 3 yards. Their OLine is worse. Again, like I said, rutgers, Lville and SU have comparable talent on the filed. You would think we wouldn't lose all 3.

LVille and RU have recruited much better skill players it isn't even an argument. And we have a lot of frosh that have been called on to make contributions ... and if they are better than the upper classmen then they should play. As for upper classes in 09 we didn't even have a full class and the one prior ... well lets not even go there not sure how you can even argue this. LVille has not had Alabama quality classes but they just grabbed a QB who is considered top 10 at his position ... a premium position at that ... we have anyone like that ... (crickets chirping) ... nope. And yes the OL for RU sucks terribly ... they won the game because they were better defensively and on specials ... OL is only one aspect of 1/3 of the game of football ... if you have better skill position players and run the right scheme you can pull off the W ... they did and we didn't .. period. We on this board have stated numerous times how they recruit so well but don't do much with it ... can't turn around and then say the opposite .. can't have it both ways.
 
K

kingottoiii

Guest
Wasn't that what you expected preseason? 6-6?

I expected 3-4 in conference and expected the BE to not be this bad. So yes going 2-5 against a bad BE is alarming.
 

rrlbees

2017 ESPN Tourney Challenge Winner
Staff member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
93,297
Like
170,435
LVille and RU have recruited much better skill players it isn't even an argument. And we have a lot of frosh that have been called on to make contributions ... and if they are better than the upper classmen then they should play. As for upper classes in 09 we didn't even have a full class and the one prior ... well lets not even go there not sure how you can even argue this. LVille has not had Alabama quality classes but they just grabbed a QB who is considered top 10 at his position ... a premium position at that ... we have anyone like that ... (crickets chirping) ... nope. And yes the OL for RU sucks terribly ... they won the game because they were better defensively and on specials ... OL is only one aspect of 1/3 of the game of football ... if you have better skill position players and run the right scheme you can pull off the W ... they did and we didn't .. period. We on this board have stated numerous times how they recruit so well but don't do much with it ... can't turn around and then say the opposite .. can't have it both ways.

Rutgers has more skill players? Really? We have the better QB no matter how much we complain about Nassib. They have the best WR in Sanu, while the next few are SU. RB? SU again. I'll say it again. We have comparable talent on the filed as rutgers and LVille. BTW, a recruit can be a stud but as far as his talent on the field is displayed, coaching goes into it. Huggins as a great recruit as have some other rutgers recruits, but if they get crap coaching, which they do, then their talent on the field is diminished.
 

wfschrec

Minister Of Defense
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
4,806
Like
3,523
Rutgers has more skill players? Really? We have the better QB no matter how much we complain about Nassib. They have the best WR in Sanu, while the next few are SU. RB? SU again. I'll say it again. We have comparable talent on the filed as rutgers and LVille. BTW, a recruit can be a stud but as far as his talent on the field is displayed, coaching goes into it. Huggins as a great recruit as have some other rutgers recruits, but if they get crap coaching, which they do, then their talent on the field is diminished.

Sorry but Shuler, Coleman and Harrison would instantly upgrade our WR corps. I won't argue the fact that Nassib is the better QB. But overall they have better skill position players. I agree coaching does go into it I won't argue that either. However again we were outplayed on specials and their defense is superior to ours ... they have some very good talent on the defensive side of the ball and in the skill position ranks. Yes we have a better QB ... as for Huggins who knows how good he will be ... the OL sucks so he doesn't have much help there ... but so be it. And I will say again overall their classes are rated higher than ours ... for instance last year they grabbed 3 top 100 RBs ... we grabbed one ... the year before that we had one but he never even set foot on campus (Timbers). I don't even know how you can argue this ... and again they won on the specials/defensive side of the ball ... go compare the 09 RU class to ours ... we lost a ton of ground that one year because Marrone was in a transitional period. To say we have comparable talent is ridiculous. We have a good staff ... Shafer has done wonders with our D ... and I am willing to bet if you took the RU skill position guys on O and swapped them over to the Cuse for our O skill guys (with the exception of Nassib as I agree he is superior) we would blow them out.
 

wfschrec

Minister Of Defense
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
4,806
Like
3,523
I expected 3-4 in conference and expected the BE to not be this bad. So yes going 2-5 against a bad BE is alarming.

Yes the conference record is troublesome but the issue is we have severe warts and our conference foes know them much better than our OOC opponents and that is part of the problem.
 

rrlbees

2017 ESPN Tourney Challenge Winner
Staff member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
93,297
Like
170,435
Sorry but Shuler, Coleman and Harrison would instantly upgrade our WR corps. I won't argue the fact that Nassib is the better QB. But overall they have better skill position players. I agree coaching does go into it I won't argue that either. However again we were outplayed on specials and their defense is superior to ours ... they have some very good talent on the defensive side of the ball and in the skill position ranks. Yes we have a better QB ... as for Huggins who knows how good he will be ... the OL sucks so he doesn't have much help there ... but so be it. And I will say again overall their classes are rated higher than ours ... for instance last year they grabbed 3 top 100 RBs ... we grabbed one ... the year before that we had one but he never even set foot on campus (Timbers). I don't even know how you can argue this ... and again they won on the specials/defensive side of the ball ... go compare the 09 RU class to ours ... we lost a ton of ground that one year because Marrone was in a transitional period. To say we have comparable talent is ridiculous. We have a good staff ... Shafer has done wonders with our D ... and I am willing to bet if you took the RU skill position guys on O and swapped them over to the Cuse for our O skill guys (with the exception of Nassib as I agree he is superior) we would blow them out.

Coleman and Harrison have not done as well as our top 3 receivers and not even close to Lemon. It's all great to have talent or potential but then if you don't use it what good is it? We have the better RB too. So we have the better QB, RB and OL and WR with the exception of Sanu and all of a sudden they have more talent than we do? They grabbed 3 top 100 RB's. So what? Where are they? Maybe the stars were all wrong. Sorry, I know we are all on the same side but when we lose to a rutgers, Lville, or UConn, it is not because of our lack of talent. And the word I have used is comparable so doing a roster by roster breakdown is useless.
 

SaintTristan

Starter
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,284
Like
272
...Sorry, I know we are all on the same side but when we lose to a rutgers, Lville, or UConn, it is not because of our lack of talent. And the word I have used is comparable so doing a roster by roster breakdown is useless.

'Bees, so where do you stand? what do you need to see and what is your timeline? not trying to put you in a box so you can speak generally - just curious what your expectations are from here.
 
K

kingottoiii

Guest
Yes the conference record is troublesome but the issue is we have severe warts and our conference foes know them much better than our OOC opponents and that is part of the problem.

Every BE team has severe warts. The fact that Friday's game is for last place in the conference is a concern. Why do our warts cause us to go 1-3 while everyone else is .500 over better?
 

Forum statistics

Threads
158,791
Messages
4,250,878
Members
5,574
Latest member
Bloder

Online statistics

Members online
196
Guests online
528
Total visitors
724




Top Bottom