He better be one hell of a recruiter

[GoSU96]

The OL hasn't fallen off much at all, the sack and rushing numbers tell me that. The run game is essentially at the same level as last year, with the same running backs, and no pass game.

The collaspe of the pass game is not explained strictly by talent, or lack there of. The biggest thing is how bad they are doing on 3rd down this year. Other than FSU and Clemson SU hasn't been physically overmatched, the fall off is as much a product of design, gameplanning, and key decision making as it is "talent".

A regression was a certainty, a collaspe like this was not.

 

[javadoc]

The OL hasn't fallen off much at all, the sack and rushing numbers tell me that. The run game is essentially at the same level as last year, with the same running backs, and no pass game.

The collaspe of the pass game is not explained strictly by talent, or lack there of. The biggest thing is how bad they are doing on 3rd down this year. Other than FSU and Clemson SU hasn't been physically overmatched, the fall off is as much a product of design, gameplanning, and key decision making as it is "talent".

A regression was a certainty, a collaspe like this was not.

I will grant that the collapse of the pass game is not solely due to talent issues. But how much is? 25% ? 75%?

Going from Nassib/Lemon/Sales to Hunt/West/Committee explains at least 75% of it to me, IMO. And the greatest part of that, by far, is going from Nassib to Hunt. Again IMO. Hunt has been effective running the ball when needed, but isn't ready in the pass game.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Let it go Go. Don't you have like 10-20 other posts stating essentially the same thing using different titles and/or words? We get your viewpoint. You've pounded it home with certainty. Its nauseating how you find new ways to post the same information over and over. You don't like George McDonald as our OC.

As he's not going anywhere either accept him and support the program or leave and come back after a change is made if its to your liking.

 

[FAL]

I find a bit of truth in all the above posts. However, for as frustrating this season has been, we have to give the organization (coaches) a by this season considering the total decimation of the organization at the end of last season (the mass immigration to Buffalo). Remember: all the pre-season pundits were predicting a 5-7 season. Well guess what? They seem to be right so far. One more game to prove the bastids wrong! Show up and be loud.

 

[GoSU96]

Let it go Go. Don't you have like 10-20 other posts stating essentially the same thing using different titles and/or words? We get your viewpoint. You've pounded it home with certainty. Its nauseating how you find new ways to post the same information over and over. You don't like George McDonald as our OC.

As he's not going anywhere either accept him and support the program or leave and come back after a change is made if its to your liking.

I have no idea who you are, this is probably the first post I've ever read of yours, but don't you dare lecture or question my support of the program.

There isn't a single post I've made where I think he needs to go, and trust me I didn't hold back on Pariani, Robinson, Brian "Arob Killer" White or Twitchy McBubble.

And if you're that easily nauseated, I'd get that checked out.

 

[CIL]

Were you in Hackett's corner then?

 

[BostonOrange]

The OL hasn't fallen off much at all, the sack and rushing numbers tell me that. The run game is essentially at the same level as last year, with the same running backs, and no pass game.

The collaspe of the pass game is not explained strictly by talent, or lack there of. The biggest thing is how bad they are doing on 3rd down this year. Other than FSU and Clemson SU hasn't been physically overmatched, the fall off is as much a product of design, gameplanning, and key decision making as it is "talent".

A regression was a certainty, a collaspe like this was not.

- At QB we've gone from a 5th yr senior who was drafted in the 4th round of the NFL draft to Terrell Hunt
- At WR lost 2 seniors who caught 136 balls for over 1900 yards and 15 TD's

I mean..yeah...a new coach with a new system probably hasn't helped, but the main thing is the players aren't as experienced or talented.

 

[Jeepers]

I fully expect recruiting to spike dramatically in the near future, once McD gets some roots down.

As far as play calling, give the guy some time. He's an enthusiastic guy--I'm sure he's pretty bummed. Let him look everything over in the off-season, and if the play-calling stays the same next year then we'll know we have a problem. All those screens make my eyes bulge, too.

 

[GoSU96]

- At QB we've gone from a 5th yr senior who was drafted in the 4th round of the NFL draft to Terrell Hunt
- At WR lost 2 seniors who caught 136 balls for over 1900 yards and 15 TD's

I mean..yeah...a new coach with a new system probably hasn't helped, but the main thing is the players aren't as experienced or talented.

Like I said a regression, and I thought a substantial regression, was to be expected, what we have seen isn't just a regression.

 

[rocklloyd]

I have no idea who you are, this is probably the first post I've ever read of yours, but don't you dare lecture or question my support of the program.

There isn't a single post I've made where I think he needs to go, and trust me I didn't hold back on Pariani, Robinson, Brian "Arob Killer" White or Twitchy McBubble.

And if you're that easily nauseated, I'd get that checked out.

Is twitchy mcbubble rob spence?

 

[GoSU96]

Is twitchy mcbubble rob spence?

Yep

 

[Orangeman]

The OL hasn't fallen off much at all, the sack and rushing numbers tell me that. The run game is essentially at the same level as last year, with the same running backs, and no pass game.

The collaspe of the pass game is not explained strictly by talent, or lack there of. The biggest thing is how bad they are doing on 3rd down this year. Other than FSU and Clemson SU hasn't been physically overmatched, the fall off is as much a product of design, gameplanning, and key decision making as it is "talent".

A regression was a certainty, a collaspe like this was not.

Probably 75% talent. Maybe 85-90%. We went from Sherman Douglas to Michael Edwards here (no offense Michael).

People forget…Nassib was calling the plays last year…leading two-minute drill drives on his own….running the team up for a quick snap TD run from the 1 yard line that would never be allowed this year.

He was whipping the ball on a line to WRs he'd played with for years, adjusting to blitzes….around the ear of DBs and LBs who thought they were in decent coverage. I firmly believe not many of us realize what we had.

We drove at will in the 4Q last year against Missouri which right now is in the Top 10, and while their stud DT wasn't playing they were plenty good.

There is maybe 1% of the trust/reaction on offense this year that we had last year…we're patterning and throwing…if you've watched college ball lately, it's obvious that it's a different game at the higher level and we're not on it…see Tajh Boyd's pass to his TE against us earlier this year…we don't even attempt that throw.

If Pugh was healthy last year our record prob 10-3 and people are talking about Nassib like they do McPherson, Graves and MacNabb. Given the competition we should probably be doing that anyway. Both McPherson and Nassib played Missouri senior year…those teams weren't even CLOSE...

 

[anglerman]

The OL hasn't fallen off much at all, the sack and rushing numbers tell me that. The run game is essentially at the same level as last year, with the same running backs, and no pass game.

The collaspe of the pass game is not explained strictly by talent, or lack there of. The biggest thing is how bad they are doing on 3rd down this year. Other than FSU and Clemson SU hasn't been physically overmatched, the fall off is as much a product of design, gameplanning, and key decision making as it is "talent".

A regression was a certainty, a collaspe like this was not.

It's mostly a talent issue. You're boy Doug didn't recruit any one at the Wr and qb positions.

Lets also not forget that the first 3 years of the Marrone era the offense was equally as bad as this years so you need to be patient

 

[anglerman]

G

Probably 75% talent. Maybe 85-90%. We went from Sherman Douglas to Michael Edwards here (no offense Michael).

People forget…Nassib was calling the plays last year…leading two-minute drill drives on his own….running the team up for a quick snap TD run from the 1 yard line that would never be allowed this year.

He was whipping the ball on a line to WRs he'd played with for years, adjusting to blitzes….around the ear of DBs and LBs who thought they were in decent coverage. I firmly believe not many of us realize what we had.

We drove at will in the 4Q last year against Missouri which right now is in the Top 10, and while their stud DT wasn't playing they were plenty good.

There is maybe 1% of the trust/reaction on offense this year that we had last year…we're patterning and throwing…if you've watched college ball lately, it's obvious that it's a different game at the higher level and we're not on it…see Tajh Boyd's pass to his TE against us earlier this year…we don't even attempt that throw.

If Pugh was healthy last year our record prob 10-3 and people are talking about Nassib like they do McPherson, Graves and MacNabb. Given the competition we should probably be doing that anyway. Both McPherson and Nassib played Missouri senior year…those teams weren't even CLOSE...

Great post that really speaks the truth of what the problem is this year. Very accurate

Go just doesn't want to acknowledge what a poor recruiter Doug really was.

 

[chakka3421]

SU and it's fan base still doesn't get the new reality. We can all blame this on talent & facilities but when we talk about coaching staffs we rank lowest of the low in pay. You get what you pay for and you deserve what you get. We hire the "diamonds in the rough" when it comes to football coaching staff just like recruits.

Case in point - Jimbo Fisher was I believe at Stanford then LSU as their OC - big time background. Dabo Sweeney came from Bama then Clemson as OC then HC. Let's take L'ville - they "paid" for Charlie Strong with experience at UF, ND, SC.

We get guys from the MAC - not saying that it cannot work out but even our coaches, like our players, we all hope they turn out to be "diamonds in the rough". You could clearly see we got out coached and out classed on the field by both Clemson & FSU.

I get what GO is trying to say but we came from the BE conference where basketball was perceived to be king and far better than lowly football. SU and its fan base still live in the past glory days.

To change (not sure if SU will ever commit to this) and the current coaching staff doesn't work out, coaches with big time experience coupled with investments in facilities to attract big time recruits to start winning games on a consistent basis is the paradigm shift that I don't will happen anytime soon, if ever.

Like GO says I too hope George & company do work out on the recruiting front or we are in for another 5 years of mediocrity.

 

[dasher]

Like I said a regression, and I thought a substantial regression, was to be expected, what we have seen isn't just a regression.

The talent level is way down. Last year, the staff was able to win with guys the previous staff brought in. This staff has no such luck. They have to recruit quality guys on their own.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

I have no idea who you are, this is probably the first post I've ever read of yours, but don't you dare lecture or question my support of the program.

There isn't a single post I've made where I think he needs to go, and trust me I didn't hold back on Pariani, Robinson, Brian "Arob Killer" White or Twitchy McBubble.

And if you're that easily nauseated, I'd get that checked out.

You'll need to explain ARob Killer to me, I wasn't an active poster back then ... Are you referring to ARob's arm/back issues? How was that on White? Sorry, not making the connection.

 

[GoSU96]

You'll need to explain ARob Killer to me, I wasn't an active poster back then ... Are you referring to ARob's arm/back issues? How was that on White? Sorry, not making the connection.

SU gave up 54 sacks in 2007.

 

[GoSU96]

The talent level is way down. Last year, the staff was able to win with guys the previous staff brought in. This staff has no such luck. They have to recruit quality guys on their own.

The experience level is down, both individually and as a group, but talent "way down", uh no. Is there an Alec Lemon on this team, absolutely not. Is Hunt where Nassib was the for the two years prior to this, no.

But this stuff about the talent level on the offense evaporating is nonsense. Anybody who had an expectation that the offense would be as good as last year was an idiot. Of course there was going to be a fall off, but the guys who are on the roster are good enough to get better production than what has been seen this year in the pass game and scoring points.

People act as if these guys came in starting from zero, it's just not true. We've all seen starting from zero, and where this roster was at the beginning of the year is not close to that.

 

[dasher]

The experience level is down, both individually and as a group, but talent "way down", uh no. Is there an Alec Lemon on this team, absolutely not. Is Hunt where Nassib was the for the two years prior to this, no.

But this stuff about the talent level on the offense evaporating is nonsense. Anybody who had an expectation that the offense would be as good as last year was an idiot. Of course there was going to be a fall off, but the guys who are on the roster are good enough to get better production than what has been seen this year in the pass game and scoring points.

People act as if these guys came in starting from zero, it's just not true. We've all seen starting from zero, and where this roster was at the beginning of the year is not close to that.

We won a number of games a few years ago scoring few points. It isn't this OC's fault that there was no qb on the roster. It isn't this OC's fault that the wide outs were as bad as they are. The last staff did a good job with the o-line. But skill players. Not so much.

 

[OttoForLife]

You are vastly under estimating how shoddy our talent is at WR. You will hear from "sources" after the season (if people squeal) about much the coaches know that is holding us back.

 

[Aweart23]

SU and it's fan base still doesn't get the new reality. We can all blame this on talent & facilities but when we talk about coaching staffs we rank lowest of the low in pay. You get what you pay for and you deserve what you get. We hire the "diamonds in the rough" when it comes to football coaching staff just like recruits.

Case in point - Jimbo Fisher was I believe at Stanford then LSU as their OC - big time background. Dabo Sweeney came from Bama then Clemson as OC then HC. Let's take L'ville - they "paid" for Charlie Strong with experience at UF, ND, SC.

We get guys from the MAC - not saying that it cannot work out but even our coaches, like our players, we all hope they turn out to be "diamonds in the rough". You could clearly see we got out coached and out classed on the field by both Clemson & FSU.

I get what GO is trying to say but we came from the BE conference where basketball was perceived to be king and far better than lowly football. SU and its fan base still live in the past glory days.

To change (not sure if SU will ever commit to this) and the current coaching staff doesn't work out, coaches with big time experience coupled with investments in facilities to attract big time recruits to start winning games on a consistent basis is the paradigm shift that I don't will happen anytime soon, if ever.

Like GO says I too hope George & company do work out on the recruiting front or we are in for another 5 years of mediocrity.

Chakka

I always enjoy your posts, but you are a way off base on Swinney. He was WR coach at both Bama (under DuBose not Saban) and Clemson, never an OC. And in between he was out of coaching, working a real estate job. Clemson took a huge gamble on him.

Although he was smart enough to fire Rob Spence as soon as he got the job...I guess that makes him smarter than HCDM

He can recruit, but there is a reason why Clemson threw truck loads of money at Chad Morris and Brent Venables. Swinney is not even one of the top five football coaches on his own staff..

 

[Orangeman]

G

Great post that really speaks the truth of what the problem is this year. Very accurate

Go just doesn't want to acknowledge what a poor recruiter Doug really was.

One thing that looks like it REALLY deserves criticism...could be wrong, but it appeared that on the last Drive we had a running play called, and then got up to the line and had to dial up another play call from the sideline on 2nd down.

I don't want to be overly critical of the coaching staff if that's the result of having inexperienced players, etc etc, but to not have two plays called there, ESPECIALLY when the first is a run where you can reasonably assume you're gonna have 2nd and 4-10, well, I just don't think that's defendable from a strategic stand-point.

People have already mentioned how late they were using the last time-out, so no comment there...I'll also say that the fake FG was a pretty shrewd coaching move if it played out the way it appeared in the end. I'll go on record, I was furious at the way they were executing that decision by rushing the kicker out there...but then it turned out that they actually would have gotten a TD, or First Down, or forced the opponent to use a Timeout to set up a 4th down play...so I felt ashamed for having doubted them.

 

[Millhouse]

The OL hasn't fallen off much at all, the sack and rushing numbers tell me that. The run game is essentially at the same level as last year, with the same running backs, and no pass game.

The collaspe of the pass game is not explained strictly by talent, or lack there of. The biggest thing is how bad they are doing on 3rd down this year. Other than FSU and Clemson SU hasn't been physically overmatched, the fall off is as much a product of design, gameplanning, and key decision making as it is "talent".

A regression was a certainty, a collaspe like this was not.

devil's advocate

We're bad on third down because it's a passing down and Hunt is a bad passer.

Why shouldn't McDonald get credit for the OL not falling off much at all considering we lost the best lineman we've had in years?

and like Bayside said, Lemon and Sales

fwiw I think McDonald stinks but I don't know it yet.

 

[anglerman]

The experience level is down, both individually and as a group, but talent "way down", uh no. Is there an Alec Lemon on this team, absolutely not. Is Hunt where Nassib was the for the two years prior to this, no.

But this stuff about the talent level on the offense evaporating is nonsense. Anybody who had an expectation that the offense would be as good as last year was an idiot. Of course there was going to be a fall off, but the guys who are on the roster are good enough to get better production than what has been seen this year in the pass game and scoring points.

People act as if these guys came in starting from zero, it's just not true. We've all seen starting from zero, and where this roster was at the beginning of the year is not close to that.

You refuse to acknowledge that Doug was a poor recruiter. I've heard from multiple sources that recruits simply didn't like him. He lacked personality skills that are needed in today's college football environment He flat out turned a lot of people off.