Hey Nike, Here Are Your Top 8 Schools to Pay and Lock Up!

[longtimefan]

just a guess but those of us that have been with su sine the late 50's early 60's are foot ball folks. hoops began in the late 60's for real.imo we(i) am also a huge hoops fan. i only have seasons for football

Mssrs. Bing and Boeheim would beg to differ.

 

[Eric15]

I really don’t care what you’re a fan of. Saying you’re a football fan doesn’t excuse you from having a terrible take.

Change the fight song, blow up the Dome, and join the NBE, and then come talk to me.

Football school, always and forever.

You remind me of my 88 year old Grandma right now who has early on-set dementia. She is also:

-prone to exaggeration, “this is the worst post in board history”
-will reference things from the past that have no real bearing on what we are talking about in the present year (fight song from 100 years ago, building the Dome 40 years ago)
-will start singing at random times (see above)

Don’t worry, I know her heart is always in the right place and I know yours is too. I guess we agree to disagree on this.

 

[SU2NASA]

You remind me of my 88 year old Grandma right now who has early on-set dementia. She is also:

-prone to exaggeration, “this is the worst post in board history”
-will reference things from the past that have no real bearing on what we are talking about in the present year (fight song from 100 years ago, building the Dome 40 years ago)
-will start singing at random times (see above)

Don’t worry, I know her heart is always in the right place and I know yours is too. I guess we agree to disagree on this.

Speaking of memory loss, I think you’re on the wrong board.

This one is for Syracuse Orangemen football.

 

[longtimefan]

Down, down the field goes ol’ Syracuse. Just see those backs hit the line and go through...

That was written well before the NCAA BB tournament existed. Hell, maybe even before the NCAA existed.

 

[Doc5120]

Speaking of memory loss, I think you’re on the wrong board.

This one is for Syracuse Orangemen football.

You realize we're not the "Orangemen" anymore. Figured a smart guy like yourself who likes to attack others would at least get that right.

 

[SU2NASA]

You realize we're not the "Orangemen" anymore. Figured a smart guy like yourself who likes to attack others would at least get that right.

Irony must be a struggle for you.

 

[Doc5120]

Irony must be a struggle for you.

You truly don't get it. If you poll 1,000 random college sports fans and ask them: SU, bball or football school, 75% would say bball. We haven't been relevant in football for 15 years. Our basketball program has been on the national stage since JB took over. What makes you say football school besides a fight song and a building? Honest question.

 

[HtownOrange]

You truly don't get it. If you poll 1,000 random college sports fans and ask them: SU, bball or football school, 75% would say bball. We haven't been relevant on football for 15 years. Our basketball program has been in the national stage since JB took over. What makes you say football school besides a fight song and a building? Honest question.

Respectfully, a random poll would likely include many (the majority) of those who do remember Syracuse football and they would recall the heroes of old and of the last heyday. I work with many football fans and they all recall Syracuse in the glory years. They saw Syracuse football as down, but knew it would come back, until now. They KNOW Syracuse football is back. History matters. See Rutgers, UConn and many others without a history.

If you limit your poll to those under 25, yes, you may have a point, but then it would not likely be random.

 

[Xanadu]

We're absolutely 100% a basketball school. And I say this as someone who lives and dies with SU football.

Times change. We’ve had stretches where football dominated and we’ve had stretches where we were a three sport powerhouse.

 

[tipphill]

You realize we're not the "Orangemen" anymore. Figured a smart guy like yourself who likes to attack others would at least get that right.

true but in my world we are still the orangemen and have lots of stuff that say it.

 

[sutomcat]

You truly don't get it. If you poll 1,000 random college sports fans and ask them: SU, bball or football school, 75% would say bball. We haven't been relevant on football for 15 years. Our basketball program has been in the national stage since JB took over. What makes you say football school besides a fight song and a building? Honest question.

I will take a shot at this.

Every major investment Syracuse has made in athletics was football driven. Ever.

Archbold Stadium
Manley Field House
Carrier Dome
Weight Room Addition
Indoor Practice Facility
Renovations to Carrier Dome

I am not counting the Melo Center because JB and his wife and donors they landed financed that. Dr Gross just showed up for the pictures at the kickoff and opening. Basketball in the Dome was an afterthought.

We played a key role in forcing the most successful basketball conference in history to weaken itself to accomodate football.

We then left that conference to go to another one, not because the basketball was better, but because the football (and the money) was better.

The number one priority for John Wildhack and his staff from day one has been to fix football.

The uninformed general public might think Syracuse is a basketball school but Syracuse University doesn't think that way. It never has.

 

[rrlbees]

We’ve had this debate before. And based solely on football performance the past 15 years it is easy to say SU is a basketball school.

But, Syracuse has been, is, and always will be a football school.

 

[Doc5120]

Respectfully, a random poll would likely include many (the majority) of those who do remember Syracuse football and they would recall the heroes of old and of the last heyday. I work with many football fans and they all recall Syracuse in the glory years. They saw Syracuse football as down, but knew it would come back, until now. They KNOW Syracuse football is back. History matters. See Rutgers, UConn and many others without a history.

If you limit your poll to those under 25, yes, you may have a point, but then it would not likely be random.

I'm talking a widespread poll, all ages/races/genders etc. I believe if you polled people who live in Syracuse, SU b'ball would rank above football, and if you polled a more national population, the margin between b'ball and football would be even wider.

Yes, we're looking like we're back in football. But SU bball has been relevant for a long stretch now. Prior to the last 15 years, we had a very solid 15 year run. Before that it was more mediocrity.

 

[Doc5120]

I will take a shot at this.

Every major investment Syracuse has made in athletics was football driven. Ever.

Archbold Stadium
Manley Field House
Carrier Dome
Weight Room Addition
Indoor Practice Facility
Renovations to Carrier Dome

I am not counting the Melo Center because JB and his wife and donors they landed financed that. Dr Gross just showed up for the pictures at the kickoff and opening. Basketball in the Dome was an afterthought.

We played a key role in forcing the most successful basketball conference in history to weaken itself to accomodate football.

We then left that conference to go to another one, not because the basketball was better, but because the football (and the money) was better.

The number one priority for John Wildhack and his staff from day one has been to fix football.

The uninformed general public might think Syracuse is a basketball school but Syracuse University doesn't think that way. It never has.

I agree with literally everything you're saying. Football drives the bus financially. I am not debating that. I believe we're using different sets of criteria to evaluate football vs bball school. I'm looking at it from a success, fanbase, interest level, quality of play perspective, whereas you (and perhaps others) are looking at it more from a financial perspective.

One could argue the reason Widlhack's # 1 priority is to fix football is because basketball wasn't broken. And I realize that even if it were, fixing the football program would trump that.

I would never in a million years argue that football doesn't control where/how we spend our money. It should be the sole driver when it comes to better positioning the University financially because there is more money in it.

I'm asking because I don't know, but do schools such as Kentucky, Louisville, Indiana, UCLA, Kansas spend more on their football programs or basketball programs? All of those schools are basketball first, and I don't think there's even a debate there. If football is driving the financial decisions, does that make them football schools? I think you'd have a hard time convincing their fanbase and the rest of the country that that holds true.

 

[sutomcat]

I question whether it is possible to spend more on basketball than football. 85 scholarships vs 13 scholarships, a much bigger coaching and support staff, far more must be spent on recruiting, etc.

If you consider SU a basketball school because they win more in basketball than football, fine. No one is disputing that.

I think the question is more about which sport the school, the alums and the fans care about more? Mostly the university to my way of thinking.

I don't think there is any question SU cares more about football. They have for many decades and that will never change.

Based on turnouts to games in the Dome, at venues in NYC, Raleigh, Tampa Bay, etc, football is more popular than basketball at Syracuse, though it is somewhat close.

 

[GoSU96]

SU has the benefit of generating more revenue from Hoops while also building back football

2016 data for top ten by basketball revenue.

 

[Franz69]

There are more threads and messages on the SyracuseFan.com Basketball Board than there are on the Football Board and Football Recruiting Forum combined. Hence, we're a basketball school.

 

[SU2NASA]

There are more threads and messages on the SyracuseFan.com Basketball Board than there are on the Football Board and Football Recruiting Forum combined. Hence, we're a basketball school.

You need to compare quality versus quantity... it's not even close.

 

[UnknownOrange]

 

[Doc5120]

I question whether it is possible to spend more on basketball than football. 85 scholarships vs 13 scholarships, a much bigger coaching and support staff, far more must be spent on recruiting, etc.

If you consider SU a basketball school because they win more in basketball than football, fine. No one is disputing that.

I think the question is more about which sport the school, the alums and the fans care about more? Mostly the university to my way of thinking.

I don't think there is any question SU cares more about football. They have for many decades and that will never change.

Based on turnouts to games in the Dome, at venues in NYC, Raleigh, Tampa Bay, etc, football is more popular than basketball at Syracuse, though it is somewhat close.

We have multiple threads where people are begging others to show up for the home football games. We don't need to do that for basketball. Yes, I understand football outdraws basketball, but I would imagine it does basically anywhere given teams are only playing 6-7 home games a season. And football is seen as more of an "all day event" with the tailgating aspect.

If I can't make a big football game, which fortunately rarely happens, I have hard enough time literally giving my ticket away. If I can't make Duke, g'town etc - I can sell it for twice what I paid for it.

I think we can all agree anyone posting on these boards is likely a die-hard fan. I'd be interested to know the number of unique people that post on the football board vs the basketball board. If there are truly that many alums, fans of football, it would reason we'd see significantly more activity on the football board than we do on the basketball board, especially at this point in time given that football is in full swing and the hoops season hasn't gotten underway. Obviously this is far from scientific, but my main point is, I come in contact with far more people who want to talk SU basketball than SU football, and I'm a local. I want more than anything, to see the interest in the football team at the level that I see/hear with the basketball team.

 

[Doc5120]

You need to compare quality versus quantity... it's not even close.

So what you're saying is there are more less informed posters on the basketball board than the football board? I'd tend to agree with you. But again, there are more posts/posters for basketball, which at least on this site, syracusefan.com - where SU die-hards come to talk SU sports, there is more interest/activity on the basketball board. This was my main point, and I apologize if my earlier comments were snide or harsh.

 

[omniorange]

All I have to say is that I hope our basketball NEVER, EVER experiences what we have had to endure in football from 2002-this year. The fact we have held strong in terms of 25K to 30K ticket paying fans in that stretch is amazing. Anyone who doesn't believe a similar stretch in bb would reduce our fans there down to the 10K to 12K level are fooling themselves.

Long Live JB! May he coach throughout the next decade.

But until this season I forgot how much of a football fan I truly am. I feel woke. So thank you Dino! Please stay. And please don't lose to Wake or Louisville. I want to experience this high for some time to come.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[HtownOrange]

I will take a shot at this.

Every major investment Syracuse has made in athletics was football driven. Ever.

Archbold Stadium
Manley Field House
Carrier Dome
Weight Room Addition
Indoor Practice Facility
Renovations to Carrier Dome

I am not counting the Melo Center because JB and his wife and donors they landed financed that. Dr Gross just showed up for the pictures at the kickoff and opening. Basketball in the Dome was an afterthought.

We played a key role in forcing the most successful basketball conference in history to weaken itself to accomodate football.

We then left that conference to go to another one, not because the basketball was better, but because the football (and the money) was better.

The number one priority for John Wildhack and his staff from day one has been to fix football.

The uninformed general public might think Syracuse is a basketball school but Syracuse University doesn't think that way. It never has.

To add to your most excellent points (I know you focused on expenditures while I am focusing on actions):

The Big East opened up to Football (Miami, WVU, VATech, Rutgers) because the hoops schools knew that SU, Pitt and BC would look elsewhere, especially after PSU went to the B1G.

SU was tagged to go to the ACC with FSU but the Big East had just formed the football side of the conference and the ACC was not as deep as the Big East (Clemson/FSU and everyone else v. Miami, SU, VATech, WVU, Pitt and BC). Had the ACC been a clear football powerhouse, SU probably woould have made the jump.

SU to the ACC 1st round - Purely football driven as the Big East was the premier hoops league

SU to the ACC Round 2 - 'nuff said

TGD spent a lot of time and effort building up all sports, in part to make SU more attractive to the B1G and ACC.

The B1G had SU (along with Pitt and others) as higher level choices for their expansion - football centric expansion.

 

[Trueblue25]

Really should have baseball

 

[HtownOrange]

I'm talking a widespread poll, all ages/races/genders etc. I believe if you polled people who live in Syracuse, SU b'ball would rank above football, and if you polled a more national population, the margin between b'ball and football would be even wider.

Yes, we're looking like we're back in football. But SU bball has been relevant for a long stretch now. Prior to the last 15 years, we had a very solid 15 year run. Before that it was more mediocrity.

I think you are cherry picking a window of time. History is the entire body of work. Top 25% of all time wins and win percentage, etc., etc., etc.

Rutgers fans cherry pick their history to prove their respective points. Every major team has down periods. Michigan has been down, UT was down, Bama has been down (not under Saban, of course). Cherry picking a specific window avoids the overall debate and frames a short window in which a person may fashion the argument to prove their point while ignoring everything else.

Why isn't the window from 1980 or 1987? Because it does not fit your preconceived argument. Everyone likes to argue that kids today don't recall SU as a good team. Fine, not accurate because the win over WVU and the win of KState in the Pin Stripe Bowl games were all over TV, but for the sake of your argument, we will ignore the obvious. However, you cannot ignore that the parents of the kids who are now playing never heard of SU in football. The parents were the youth of the day when SU was in full bore top tier football. These same youth turned parents are helping todays players make the decision regarding which school to attend.

I am not slamming you for having an opinion that differs from mine, but I am questioning the full logic of an opinion that appears more contrived (a la Rutgers 1869 and 2006-present history only) than fully reasoned. Especially because the opinion requires one to ignore to fantastic/memorable Pin Stripe Bowl wins; the opinion demands that we believe kids are making decisions in a vacuum; that parents and grand parents have no input/influence; and that history has no impact on kids.