Honest question

[kcsu]

We will win because our OL is going to be solid. Between injuries and horrible coaching our OL was possibly the worst in the last 50 years. Cav was a disaster. We finally have a true OL coach and it's going to show.

 

[Pyle]

C’mon. That’s on Dino?!? Are you freaking kidding me?

yeah he had the guts to say after 2019 that things weren’t working and demoted one of his longest tenured guys, fired another and he failed to account for 100 year plague ?!? He should have seen it coming and waited to rip off the bandaid of new OC/DC?

Not every team in CFB replaced their OOC games with conference games with 5 OL and their full back playing G?

Ohio State, Clemson, etc have guys on their 4 deep that would start here.

2020 was so filled with asterisks and legit reasons that it’s hard to get a read on things. That’s all I said. Obviously we weren’t good.

I get it. You want to make justifications. I'm just not exactly sure why. I don't think it was that hard to get a read on things. I didn't say Covid was his fault. I said that every other FBS team dealt with the same issues regarding Covid and the majority seemed to handle it better than we did.

But the OL depth, and replacing both coordinators at the same time, i mean yeah that one falls on the Chief, not sure who else you would blame there? 5 years, time for accountability. Where are the asterisks for all the other teams?

1-10 has only happened one other time in our history and it was at the hands of one of the worst D1 coaches of all time. I'm not saying Dino is Gerg, what I am saying is that new OC/DC/Covid whatever...1-10 shouldn't be treated like a big ole nothing burger. It was a steaming pile of cow dung.

 

[Pyle]

We will win because our OL is going to be solid. Between injuries and horrible coaching our OL was possibly the worst in the last 50 years. Cav was a disaster. We finally have a true OL coach and it's going to show.

We said the same crap about Mitch Browning and Gerg. Show me, then I'll believe it.

 

[money3189]

I get it. You want to make justifications. I'm just not exactly sure why. I don't think it was that hard to get a read on things. I didn't say Covid was his fault. I said that every other FBS team dealt with the same issues regarding Covid and the majority seemed to handle it better than we did.

But the OL depth, and replacing both coordinators at the same time, i mean yeah that one falls on the Chief, not sure who else you would blame there? 5 years, time for accountability. Where are the asterisks for all the other teams?

1-10 has only happened one other time in our history and it was at the hands of one of the worst D1 coaches of all time. I'm not saying Dino is Gerg, what I am saying is that new OC/DC/Covid whatever...1-10 shouldn't be treated like a big ole nothing burger. It was a steaming pile of cow dung.

I agree, you can only blame covid to a certain extent. The impact it had on this team is a reflection of lack of development and preparation from prior years.

 

[dollarbill44]

I’m just going to assume we will suck until I’m proven otherwise. No expectations, no predictions of beating anyone - expect nothing and take anything above that as upside. In other words, I’ll be pleasantly surprised if we upset Ohio.

 

[TheCusian]

I get it. You want to make justifications. I'm just not exactly sure why. I don't think it was that hard to get a read on things. I didn't say Covid was his fault. I said that every other FBS team dealt with the same issues regarding Covid and the majority seemed to handle it better than we did.

If you ignore “justifications” or “reasons” altogether you end up saying things that lack any real context. When you’ve got a guy who may not be great but is certainly not awful - the margins matter. Context matters. Not every team dealt with the same COVID stuff. What about the teams who failed tests and had to forfeit games? Is that handling is better? A lot of teams got camp in, some didn’t. Some practiced like normal, some didn’t. How on earth do you judge that?

Whole lotta people see 1-10 and that’s all. I see a team who got their young players a lot of PT without redshirting. We were never winning our division in 2020. Once the schedule became ACC +1, we weren’t making a bowl. What’s the best outcome? Gain experience for the kids and new staff and try to win some. Mission accomplished.

But the OL depth, and replacing both coordinators at the same time, i mean yeah that one falls on the Chief, not sure who else you would blame there? 5 years, time for accountability. Where are the asterisks for all the other teams?

The OL depth is on the staff. The coordinator changes? I don’t see it as a bad thing at all. I’d have been more worried if he had kept them on after 2019. It was the right move and some bad luck. I think it’s hilarious that you don’t think there’s accountability.

1-10 has only happened one other time in our history and it was at the hands of one of the worst D1 coaches of all time. I'm not saying Dino is Gerg, what I am saying is that new OC/DC/Covid whatever...1-10 shouldn't be treated like a big ole nothing burger. It was a steaming pile of cow dung.

Gergs 1-10 was different in that it a regular schedule. The schedule Dino played were tougher on the whole. A normal year has a few cupcakes built in. It was an awful year, yes. But I think the staff deserve credit for keeping things together from Covid to BLM to bad luck with the OL, tougher schedule, etc.

2019 was much, much worse IMO

 

[OrangeDW]

Depends on the OL/QB play.

If the OL proves to be solid, and a QB emerges as a legit good player, we’ll be pretty good.

If the OL stinks, the QB will have a tough time, and we’re probably 4-8/5-7 or something.

 

[Pyle]

If you ignore “justifications” or “reasons” altogether you end up saying things that lack any real context. When you’ve got a guy who may not be great but is certainly not awful - the margins matter. Context matters. Not every team dealt with the same COVID stuff. What about the teams who failed tests and had to forfeit games? Is that handling is better? A lot of teams got camp in, some didn’t. Some practiced like normal, some didn’t. How on earth do you judge that?

Whole lotta people see 1-10 and that’s all. I see a team who got their young players a lot of PT without redshirting. We were never winning our division in 2020. Once the schedule became ACC +1, we weren’t making a bowl. What’s the best outcome? Gain experience for the kids and new staff and try to win some. Mission accomplished.



The OL depth is on the staff. The coordinator changes? I don’t see it as a bad thing at all. I’d have been more worried if he had kept them on after 2019. It was the right move and some bad luck. I think it’s hilarious that you don’t think there’s accountability.

Gergs 1-10 was different in that it a regular schedule. The schedule Dino played were tougher on the whole. A normal year has a few cupcakes built in. It was an awful year, yes. But I think the staff deserve credit for keeping things together from Covid to BLM to bad luck with the OL, tougher schedule, etc.

2019 was much, much worse IMO

The experience the young guys got was great. The fact that we haven't developed/recruited well enough not to be playing a team like that in year 5 is a problem and seems to be showing, combine that with new systems and we got 1-10. That being said, guys are still kinda young, Dino's system takes years to install(so not much hope offense explodes in year 2 of new OC as he's still learning, this could be an entire conversation in itself). I don't think we're headed for another 1 win season but I'm also not convinced that we're going to turn it all around this year and make a bowl.

The other big question mark is Dino. Does he go back to prior form or does he come back like last year and just mail it in when he thinks the game is over. We didn't play Dino ball last year.

 

[RandomGuy]

2019 was much, much worse IMO

My thoughts, as well. Blame what you will for 2020, but 2019 had all the pieces, and performed poorly.

For me, the 19 oline struggled with blitz PU until the last 4 games. I can't imagine they didn't rectify that. A likely improvement there, and the rest should follow.

 

[Pyle]

My thoughts, as well. Blame what you will for 2020, but 2019 had all the pieces, and performed poorly.

For me, the 19 oline struggled with blitz PU until the last 4 games. I can't imagine they didn't rectify that. A likely improvement there, and the rest should follow.

Deciding if 2019 was worse than 2020 is like trying to figure out if it's better to step in cow poop or horse poop.

 

[EuclidBred]

Gergs 1-10 was different in that it a regular schedule. The schedule Dino played were tougher on the whole. A normal year has a few cupcakes built in. It was an awful year, yes. But I think the staff deserve credit for keeping things together from Covid to BLM to bad luck with the OL, tougher schedule, etc.

2019 was much, much worse IMO

I mean would 3-9 with additional wins over Colgate and WMU really make you feel better about last season? We were 1-10 playing OUR CONFERENCE and LIBERTY. Stop this "tougher schedule" nonsense from last year.

 

[JustPherU]

Depends on the OL/QB play.

If the OL proves to be solid, and a QB emerges as a legit good player, we’ll be pretty good.

If the OL stinks, the QB will have a tough time, and we’re probably 4-8/5-7 or something.

Or 1-10

 

[OrangeDW]

Or 1-10

I think we’ve got enough on defense to do better than that.

Unless our best guys all get hurt for the season again, smh.

 

[TheCusian]

The experience the young guys got was great. The fact that we haven't developed/recruited well enough not to be playing a team like that in year 5 is a problem and seems to be showing, combine that with new systems and we got 1-10. That being said, guys are still kinda young, Dino's system takes years to install(so not much hope offense explodes in year 2 of new OC as he's still learning, this could be an entire conversation in itself). I don't think we're headed for another 1 win season but I'm also not convinced that we're going to turn it all around this year and make a bowl.

The other big question mark is Dino. Does he go back to prior form or does he come back like last year and just mail it in when he thinks the game is over. We didn't play Dino ball last year.

At RB the more experienced guys sat out due to COVID. Our top 3 NFL prospects got hurt in the secondary. A blanket “in year 5” thing doesn’t really work at all position groups. OL and QB - I’m right there with you. The rest? I don’t know.

The system needs a working OL. As stated some of that is on our recruiting and on Dino for hiring Cav. The system needs to evolve as it’s gotten to easy to figure out. New OC should help, regular camp to get stuff installed and worked out should help too.

I expect a jump from the O and continued growth from the D. If not we’ll be starting over, which sets the clock back another year or two.

 

[TheCusian]

Deciding if 2019 was worse than 2020 is like trying to figure out if it's better to step in cow poop or horse poop.

It feels like both are crap but in 2019 we thought we were going to be good and turned out no, 2020 feels like a continuation of 2019 but we changed a bunch of stuff and had a thousand weird circumstances so not sure

 

[Eric15]

Why are people in various threads scared of Ohio? I get liberty, but why Ohio?

I don't get the sense that anyone is "scared" of Ohio.

I see it as a fairly even matchup that is probably 50/50 that we win or lose. We will have to play very well to win on the road.

 

[AAM62]

The experience the young guys got was great. The fact that we haven't developed/recruited well enough not to be playing a team like that in year 5 is a problem and seems to be showing, combine that with new systems and we got 1-10. That being said, guys are still kinda young, Dino's system takes years to install(so not much hope offense explodes in year 2 of new OC as he's still learning, this could be an entire conversation in itself). I don't think we're headed for another 1 win season but I'm also not convinced that we're going to turn it all around this year and make a bowl.

The other big question mark is Dino. Does he go back to prior form or does he come back like last year and just mail it in when he thinks the game is over. We didn't play Dino ball last year.

I also think we need to cut the "dino's system" crap out. Its not Dino's system, its the same system run by a majority of college football. He's also been here for almost 6 years now. The system sucks for syracuse because we don't have the horses and everyone else knows how to defend it. Dino's stubbornness to make it work is a large part of the offensive issues. Literally this entire time we've been shite running the ball on early downs, worse at the goal line, and tire the crap out of the Defense. No adjustments have been made, which is a big red mark against their ability to coach.

Edit: New OC means nothing. Its the same damn offense, just a different play caller.

 

[JustPherU]

I think we’ve got enough on defense to do better than that.

Unless our best guys all get hurt for the season again, smh.

I do too, but I’ve learned to not expect much and then I can be happy if we do win several games.

 

[TheCusian]

I also think we need to cut the "dino's system" crap out. Its not Dino's system, its the same system run by a majority of college football. He's also been here for almost 6 years now. The system sucks for syracuse because we don't have the horses and everyone else knows how to defend it. Dino's stubbornness to make it work is a large part of the offensive issues. Literally this entire time we've been shite running the ball on early downs, worse at the goal line, and tire the crap out of the Defense. No adjustments have been made, which is a big red mark against their ability to coach.

Edit: New OC means nothing. Its the same damn offense, just a different play caller.

You’re right about the system being adopted a lot of places and being easier to defend. It’s still a spread concept that passes to set up the run, at tempo when you have the advantage. When it was working even at its best in 2018 it wasn’t full-Bayor. It was like 85%. It also worked best when our OL was functional, unlike 2019-2020.

I think the new OC could mean something if you think they are coaches who have a better understanding of their craft than we do. 2 years of crappy offense and we think they’re just going to roll out the same exact O, unaware of what’s not working? Dino has shown that he self-scouts and makes changes.

I’d pin 2019-20 on OL trouble and Tommy not being a creative type over the system

 

[RandomGuy]

Deciding if 2019 was worse than 2020 is like trying to figure out if it's better to step in cow poop or horse poop.

In 2019, we felt like we were driving into the season in a late model BMW. That quickly turned into a 1978 pinto that barely crossed the finish line. Last year, that Pinto was already rear ended, and the gas tank was on fire before we ever played a game. 2019 was far more of a disappointment for me.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

You’re right about the system being adopted a lot of places and being easier to defend. It’s still a spread concept that passes to set up the run, at tempo when you have the advantage. When it was working even at its best in 2018 it wasn’t full-Bayor. It was like 85%. It also worked best when our OL was functional, unlike 2019-2020.

I think the new OC could mean something if you think they are coaches who have a better understanding of their craft than we do. 2 years of crappy offense and we think they’re just going to roll out the same exact O, unaware of what’s not working? Dino has shown that he self-scouts and makes changes.

I’d pin 2019-20 on OL trouble and Tommy not being a creative type over the system

Our O under Babers has been for the most part:

1. Throw it deep and hope something good happens
2. Dungey makes something happen

There weren't many games in 2016-18 where we had much more than that. VA Tech we got the run game going and Clemson we had them chasing the whole field. Heck how many times in 2016 did we start out like garbage on O and then decide this ain't working just throw it up to AET? That was pretty much 2016 in a nutshell. How many times in 2018 did Dungey simply will us to scoring drives? This O is supposed to be big play and that season was grinding it out scores because of Dungey's heart.

2019 and 2020 have been more difficult without Dungey, without a true deep threat, and with our opponents knowing what we are trying to do.

 

[TheCusian]

Our O under Babers has been for the most part:

1. Throw it deep and hope something good happens
2. Dungey makes something happen

There weren't many games in 2016-18 where we had much more than that. VA Tech we got the run game going and Clemson we had them chasing the whole field. Heck how many times in 2016 did we start out like garbage on O and then decide this ain't working just throw it up to AET? That was pretty much 2016 in a nutshell. How many times in 2018 did Dungey simply will us to scoring drives? This O is supposed to be big play and that season was grinding it out scores because of Dungey's heart.

2019 and 2020 have been more difficult without Dungey, without a true deep threat, and with our opponents knowing what we are trying to do.

I remember a lot of great plays to our slot guy, a dump off to Strickland, a bunch of great plays to Ishmeal *and* Dungey running for a few first downs in our win vs Clemson.

You're remembering the big plays from 2016-2018 which were our most explosive (deep catches by definition and Eric was lightning in a bottle) but we moved the ball in other ways.

Your diagnosis of 2019-20 isn’t wrong but it’s missing a bunch of other mitigating factors you should probably mention to make it less of a simple take

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I remember a lot of great plays to our slot guy, a dump off to Strickland, a bunch of great plays to Ishmeal *and* Dungey running for a few first downs in our win vs Clemson.

You're remembering the big plays from 2016-2018 which were our most explosive (deep catches by definition and Eric was lightning in a bottle) but we moved the ball in other ways.

Your diagnosis of 2019-20 isn’t wrong but it’s missing a bunch of other mitigating factors you should probably mention to make it less of a simple take

We struggled to run the ball in 2016 and 2017. Strickland was under 4 ypc which is almost impossible to do. Neal was better at 5.3 ypc. 2018 we finally were able to run the ball and we needed it as we didn't have the WRs that we did in 2016 and 2017. We threw the ball a lot less.

2019 minus the Dungey runs we had similar production on the ground. Yet we had worse production in the air and a lot more sacks. IMO part of that is on TD. Even in 2018 he was sacked 11 times vs only 87 pass attempts. That is a lot and continued into 2019 and 2020. The games he missed these last 2 years our sack rates went down, didn't matter who was in at QB.

We also stopped using the middle of the field in 2019 and 2020. Riley's production went down in 2019 and Nykeim did more in 2018 than in 2019 and 2020 combined. How much of that is on the QB? How do we fix this next season? Who is the guy in the middle at WR? I would love to see Taj there but then who the heck is our main threat on the outside?

 

[money3189]

You're remembering the big plays from 2016-2018 which were our most explosive (deep catches by definition and Eric was lightning in a bottle) but we moved the ball in other ways.

Yup. Not fair to say it’s just deep shots and Dungey’s running. Moe Neal ran for 900 yards in 18 and 19. Averaged over 5 yards a carry.

 

[Pyle]

Yup. Not fair to say it’s just deep shots and Dungey’s running. Moe Neal ran for 900 yards in 18 and 19. Averaged over 5 yards a carry.

I think it's fair to say though that Dungey's ability to make plays out of nothing gave our offense the initiative at the snap. Defenses were in react mode trying to stop Dungey from killing them. Remove that X-factor and now it's our offense in react mode trying to figure out where the defense is coming from. That 1/2 second difference is all it takes to change things. That to me is huge in why we have fallen off as much as we have. We are predictable and inefficient both, trying to react to a defense already in motion.