Honest question

[syrBossHogg]

 

[money3189]

I think it's fair to say though that Dungey's ability to make plays out of nothing gave our offense the initiative at the snap. Defenses were in react mode trying to stop Dungey from killing them. Remove that X-factor and now it's our offense in react mode trying to figure out where the defense is coming from. That 1/2 second difference is all it takes to change things. That to me is huge in why we have fallen off as much as we have. We are predictable and inefficient both, trying to react to a defense already in motion.

We all know what Dungey did. Its not a slight on him lol. Im saying you cant just exclude the other plays that were made by the unit. Have to give the RB's and O line some credit. Dungey didnt play in 2019 when Moe ran for 900. Howard and Adams ran for another 700. Many teams run spread without dual threat QB's. Nassib wasnt a dual threat and we had great offensive production his senior year. I prefer a dual threat myself but there's many ways to skin a cat. For me, the execution of the O line and play calling is whats puzzling.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Yup. Not fair to say it’s just deep shots and Dungey’s running. Moe Neal ran for 900 yards in 18 and 19. Averaged over 5 yards a carry.

What Neal did in 18 and 19 wasn't in 16 and 17.

My main point was that in 2016 and 2017 we really struggled to sustain drives. There was little consistency on O. It was HRs or Ks. 2018 we finally were able to sustain drives, but lost the HRs. We became singles hitters with good BAs. We went slower and grinded. We toughed it out which isn't the design of the O and IMO is more attributable to Dungey's will than the plan. In 2019, 2020, and this upcoming year 2021 we are missing the HR hitters and the heart and sole at QB. We went back to Ks without the HRs. IMO for the O to be successful this season we need the running game going and we need a QB to step up and hit those singles. We need to avoid the Ks (sacks). if TD can achieve that great. Either way that type of O isn't what we were sold when Dino came here.

 

[money3189]

What Neal did in 18 and 19 wasn't in 16 and 17.

My main point was that in 2016 and 2017 we really struggled to sustain drives. There was little consistency on O. It was HRs or Ks. 2018 we finally were able to sustain drives, but lost the HRs. We became singles hitters with good BAs. We went slower and grinded. We toughed it out which isn't the design of the O and IMO is more attributable to Dungey's will than the plan. In 2019, 2020, and this upcoming year 2021 we are missing the HR hitters and the heart and sole at QB. We went back to Ks without the HRs. IMO for the O to be successful this season we need the running game going and we need a QB to step up and hit those singles. We need to avoid the Ks (sacks). if TD can achieve that great. Either way that type of O isn't what we were sold when Dino came here.

I didnt say anything about 16 and 17 lol. I was responding to some one who made a simplistic comment about the offense. SInce you mention 16-17 I think its obvious we didnt perform well in those years. Thats not news. The 4-8 record says it all. It was a new scheme that had players that were recruited for a zone option attack. We didnt have many good players. Offensive line wasnt good. We relied heavily on the few players we had ( Dungey, Etta Tawo, Ishmael and Erv). Those Wr's made plays but we ran the ball better after the 16-17 seasons.

 

[EuclidBred]

Woof. Good news is you'll probably get decent value on Cuse ML!

 

[donniesyracuse]

So Syracuse is not expected to win by a few touchdowns?

 

[BrooklynCuse]

For me, the execution of the O line and play calling is whats puzzling.

Totally agree. The play calling has been predictable with zero surprises. It seemed to get a little more diverse towards the end of last season. Hopefully this year they’ll run more than 5 plays

 

[BrooklynCuse]

The other big question mark is Dino. Does he go back to prior form or does he come back like last year and just mail it in when he thinks the game is over. We didn't play Dino ball last year.

I swear in some games last year by the third quarter Dino looked like he was thinking more about dinner and what movie he was going to watch than coaching

 

[kcsu]

I swear in some games last year by the third quarter Dino looked like he was thinking more about dinner and what movie he was going to watch than coaching

I think it's safe to say that Dino's strong suit isn't in game coaching. Guys average when it comes to game planning. He needs strong coordinators.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Why are people in various threads scared of Ohio? I get liberty, but why Ohio?

I think that honestly, they're more scared about US than Ohio.

We are afraid of what we might be (again).

 

[IthacaMatt]

1-10 has only happened one other time in our history and it was at the hands of one of the worst D1 coaches of all time. I'm not saying Dino is Gerg, what I am saying is that new OC/DC/Covid whatever...1-10 shouldn't be treated like a big ole nothing burger. It was a steaming pile of cow dung.

Yep.

How many other teams went backward 4 games last year vs. the year before?

And now how many have done it back-to-back?

And how many of THOSE teams still have that same coach?

 

[IthacaMatt]

What Neal did in 18 and 19 wasn't in 16 and 17.

My main point was that in 2016 and 2017 we really struggled to sustain drives. There was little consistency on O. It was HRs or Ks. 2018 we finally were able to sustain drives, but lost the HRs. We became singles hitters with good BAs. We went slower and grinded. We toughed it out which isn't the design of the O and IMO is more attributable to Dungey's will than the plan. In 2019, 2020, and this upcoming year 2021 we are missing the HR hitters and the heart and sole at QB. We went back to Ks without the HRs. IMO for the O to be successful this season we need the running game going and we need a QB to step up and hit those singles. We need to avoid the Ks (sacks). if TD can achieve that great. Either way that type of O isn't what we were sold when Dino came here.

Everybody talks about playing fast now.

You don't see defenses lying down faking injuries like they did when he first got here.

The "uniqueness" of it is over, and it turns out, our "version" of the Baylor / Air Raid / Spread / Whatever you want to Call It system is so simple that it's really predictable.

And on top of that, we still can't execute it.

 

[RoatanCuse]

Ouch. Has Orange football really slipped this low?

 

[orangecuse]

I think that honestly, they're more scared about US than Ohio.

We are afraid of what we might be (again).

 

[OrangeDW]

I smell a classic barn burner victory like that legendary win over Villanova!

 

[AngryOtto]

I smell a classic barn burner victory like that legendary win over Villanova!

I sure hope not. That means our D is not what we expect.

 

[TheCusian]

I swear in some games last year by the third quarter Dino looked like he was thinking more about dinner and what movie he was going to watch than coaching

I thought he looked like a guy demoralized by a disappointing OL hire and a bit like the rest of us - tired of a horrible year mired in a global pandemic

 

[TheCusian]

Everybody talks about playing fast now.

You don't see defenses lying down faking injuries like they did when he first got here.

The "uniqueness" of it is over, and it turns out, our "version" of the Baylor / Air Raid / Spread / Whatever you want to Call It system is so simple that it's really predictable.

And on top of that, we still can't execute it.

Bit much here lol. It wasn’t clicking at a high efficiency in year 1 or 2 but we still clocked two ranked teams in the mouth. It absolutely got figured out some (and got adopted by much of CFB in some form).

It needed tweaking (a new set of eyes, OC) and an off-season to implement. A functional OL will help too.

Also, simple works from time to time if it is designed well. And it worked for 10 years. And got copied.

 

[All4SU]

Replacing the coordinators last year with reduced practice time was huge. The defense had the advantage that opposing teams had little to go on to know what to expect from
White. The offense had largely the same approach which made it somewhat easier for opponents. Couple that with unmanageable level of injuries, and that’s what you get.
I expect the D to keep improving, based on players having a greater understanding of their roles. But teams have film now, so White will have to be more diverse.

The offense clearly has no place to go but up, and I believe they will look dramatically different. Not 10-3 Dungey different, but functional, with some time for TD to operate. If the run game gets off quickly, and we can get a couple of receivers on the same page with TD, it will be a successful season and a bowl game.

 

[orangepassion]

We'll be better next year, the question is how much better.

 

[cuse309]

We'll be anywhere from a 1 point dog to a 1 point favorite. And rightfully so after last year's performance.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Bit much here lol. It wasn’t clicking at a high efficiency in year 1 or 2 but we still clocked two ranked teams in the mouth. It absolutely got figured out some (and got adopted by much of CFB in some form).

It needed tweaking (a new set of eyes, OC) and an off-season to implement. A functional OL will help too.

Also, simple works from time to time if it is designed well. And it worked for 10 years. And got copied.

Simple only works in 2 circumstances: (1) you have better talent, or (2) you have noticeably different plays that work off the same formations.

 

[TheCusian]

Simple only works in 2 circumstances: (1) you have better talent, or (2) you have noticeably different plays that work off the same formations.

Yeah, that’s not the story of this system. Baylor routinely outplayed better talent 10 years. It was worth a shot and it did lead to better offense prior to it getting more figured out. 10 wins with Eric doesn’t happen without the system and Dino.

 

[BrooklynCuse]

Yeah, that’s not the story of this system. Baylor routinely outplayed better talent 10 years. It was worth a shot and it did lead to better offense prior to it getting more figured out. 10 wins with Eric doesn’t happen without the system and Dino.

That 10 win season was great and a lot of fun but it’s more of an outlier than the norm. Things really lined up for us in 2018, LVille was down and only won 2 games, FSU was down with 5 w’s. The team did what they needed to do and took care of business and it was a wild ride but we can only hold on to that for so long.

The ACC has some of the highest paid D coordinators in the country and it looks like they may have figured our Offense out after a couple of years.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see a totally different offensive philosophy this year. Whatever Dino needs to do to win games

 

[IthacaMatt]

Yeah, that’s not the story of this system. Baylor routinely outplayed better talent 10 years. It was worth a shot and it did lead to better offense prior to it getting more figured out. 10 wins with Eric doesn’t happen without the system and Dino.

That's fine, but you're admitting that people are figuring it out.
So that means we have to do some things differently.
Hopefully running the ball effectively and throwing to the whole field will be included.

I'd like to see a lot more - I can't believe I'm going to use this word - "multiplicity" out of what they CAN do from their various sets.

Some used to say Pasqualoni used 16 different formations to call only 3 or 4 plays.
I feel like Dino also calls only 3 or 4 plays, but from about 1/3 as many formations, making us that much more predictable.

Of course, Pasqualoni & DeLeone had old school run-blocking chops. Dino has always been a zone blocking kind of guy, and as a result, there has not been the use of leverage, mismatches (2-on-1 blocking as much), traps, sophisticated counters. Yeah, they have sort of a counter running play, but it's still all the line blocking in mostly the same direction, and the running back cutting behind it.

I was watching the SU-Maryland game from 1967 on YouTube the other night. The line blocking was just awesome. That was football! It wasn't 300 pound monsters wearing body armor hurtling themselves like projectiles at each other. There was blocking and tackling, and it was a lot more like chess than watching some football today, at least in terms of line play.