Hope this is JBs last year

[SaltLakeOrange]

You think alumni support is tied significantly to the success of the basketball program?

Read the Alumni mag in which the University makes its appeal for said “alumni support”. You'll see scant mention of athletics as a reason for contributing. It’s all about the great things the University is doing in the classroom and in the world.

People on here are often victims of myths they carry around with them.

It’s sort of like the “Major Contributors” myth. These are the unnamed people that are going to force the University to do what it doesn’t want to do. Our posters reason, “ We must have them.”

The Athletic department is self funded through Orange Club. They tie back to the AD...And we do have them, jsyk.

 

[kirbivore]

Arguing about who the best player on Syracuse is is like arguing about who the Valedictorian of summer school should be.

Kind of a deep reference to the the movie Summer School

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Wrong, Alsacs.

No matter how many times I post the same thing, you seem incapable of understanding the central points.

1. In the short term, SU has a better chance of winning games with JB than it would with any other coach. It’s his system, his players, his assistants and he is the expert. Many of the best college coaches consider him one of the geniuses of the game.

2. Anyone we bring in to replace him —- from the outside —- faces a huge task inserting a new system, getting assistants and recruiting players to that system. It’ll take several years. Results in the intermediate term will reflect that disruption.

3. Hiring a coach from the outside is a huge crapshoot that is as likely to fail as it is to succeed. The idea that we’ll be able to “select” the best coach from among P5s and best mid-majors is what I call “SU Fan Fantasy” syndrome. What currently successful coach would bet their future on unseating the top teams in the ACC? JB said as much when he commented on the move to the ACC from a basketball perspective.

4. Just as the landscape of Lacrosse has changed because of the growth of the game, so has that of college basketball. There’s more parity than there ever was. Teams like Texas Tech are now stocked with good players and that was unthinkable not so many years ago. Lots of posters on here think it’s still 1985.

5. Promoting a current assistant minimizes disruption, but the learning curve will be steep.

6. Money and resources have little to do with this. As I pointed out, the Redskins are one of the most profitable NFL franchises and have been for many years. Snyder has lost on the field, but has laughed all the way to the bank. But they have just appointed their 9th coach under Snyder in search of a winner.

We’ll see what happens to Dome crowds when we settle into being another middle of the pack ACC team.

What?!!
You seem incapable of understanding that JB WILL SOON BE LEAVING NO MATTER WHAT.
And that we already ARE and have been a “middle of the pack ACC team.”

It’s kinda like you must be in some sort of self-created/imposed therapeutic program, where you watch old vhs tapes of us instead of the currently-broadcasted games. Step forward into 2018, first, get acclimated for a week or so, and then step forward into 2020. Don’t do it all at once—the internal reaction is intense. Akin to the bends, but with vomiting and explosive D.

 

[cuseguy]

You think alumni support is tied significantly to the success of the basketball program?

Read the Alumni mag in which the University makes its appeal for said “alumni support”. You'll see scant mention of athletics as a reason for contributing. It’s all about the great things the University is doing in the classroom and in the world.

People on here are often victims of myths they carry around with them.

It’s sort of like the “Major Contributors” myth. These are the unnamed people that are going to force the University to do what it doesn’t want to do. Our posters reason, “ We must have them.”

The drumbeat from fans and alums has already begun. JB, praise his soul, will know it’s time after a few losing seasons (one is imminent, another is on the way next year), the program is belittled by the local and national media and the Dome crowds continue to dwindle. It’s sad to see his proud career end this way, but it’s inevitable.

 

[Townie72]

What?!!
You seem incapable of understanding that JB WILL SOON BE LEAVING NO MATTER WHAT.
And that we already ARE and have been a “middle of the pack ACC team.”

It’s kinda like you must be in some sort of self-created/imposed therapeutic program, where you watch old vhs tapes of us instead of the currently-broadcasted games. Step forward into 2018, first, get acclimated for a week or so, and then step forward into 2020. Don’t do it all at once—the internal reaction is intense. Akin to the bends, but with vomiting and explosive D.

]

Let me see if I can wade through this babbling.

Yup, he’s going to retire.

Yup, we are a middle of the pack ACC team and will continue to be best case.

But, replacing JB sooner than later won’t improve that.

Blaming JB and running him off ASAP will probably make things worse in the short term.

It will be interesting to see if fan base comprised primarily of locals will adjust to being Wake Forest, Ga Tech or VT.

 

[Townie72]

The Athletic department is self funded through Orange Club. They tie back to the AD...And we do have them, jsyk.

Let me guess. You were not a Finance Major.

SU athletic department revenues are about $90,000,000 a year.

How much of that was contributed by boosters? (And what’s your source for that data?)

Your statement is absurd on its face. Where do people get these crazy ideas and impressions?

 

[Alsacs]

]

Let me see if I can wade through this babbling.

Yup, he’s going to retire.

Yup, we are a middle of the pack ACC team and will continue to be best case.

But, replacing JB sooner than later won’t improve that.

Blaming JB and running him off ASAP will probably make things worse in the short term.

It will be interesting to see if fan base comprised primarily of locals will adjust to being Wake Forest, Ga Tech or VT.

It is almost like you are rooting for the program to go down after JB just to prove a point.
What happened to Georgetown happened to them because the school never had a large fanbase and the success of the program was in a different era of college basketball.
Georgetown can't get 19k fans to come and watch them play Colgate.

Syracuse can. They aren't coming because Jim Boeheim is the coach. They are coming because they are fans of the program. Our fans have come these last 5 years to watch a mediocre product because they are fans of the program.

Louisville had a legend coach in Denny Crum. The guy lost it at the end. They let him retire with dignity and came back to national prominence.
Indiana pushed their legend out because he was a bully and jerk and assaulted a student. They replaced him with an assistant. They hired a good coach after that in Sampson. Sampson broke NCAA rules. If he didn't he is still there coach and they are good. Sampson has redeemed himself at Houston.

Legendary coaches can be replaced. You don't have the same level of success but you can still be relevant nationally. Nobody expects the next coach to be better than Jim Boeheim overall. That doesn't mean Jim Boeheim is doing a good job right or that the program doesn't need change.

Jim Boeheim is not bigger than Syracuse basketball. Bobby Bowden wasn't bigger than Florida State. John Wildhack is more important to Syracuse's future than Jim Boeheim.

 

[cuseguy]

]

Let me see if I can wade through this babbling.

Yup, he’s going to retire.

Yup, we are a middle of the pack ACC team and will continue to be best case.

But, replacing JB sooner than later won’t improve that.

Blaming JB and running him off ASAP will probably make things worse in the short term.

It will be interesting to see if fan base comprised primarily of locals will adjust to being Wake Forest, Ga Tech or VT.

Pretty sure most agree that JB needs to go out on his own terms. But many in that group also believe we’ve nearly slipped to the point where we’re just marginally better than the bottom third. It’s not suddenly going to improve. BC beat Virginia. GT beat NC. We have no hope of accomplishing that. That shows us where we are. And this isn’t a shot term downward spiral. It’s going to require an overhaul, a system reboot, and, yes, it may take several years.

 

[Alsacs]

We are not going to become Wake Forest, Virginia Tech, Boston College in basketball post-Boeheim.
Those schools when they are good couldn't get 19k to watch their teams play a tomato can.
Syracuse can and they aren't coming now because of Boeheim.
If anything the teams we have put on the floor the last 5 years have hurt attendance.

 

[lionf96]

The people that can't let go see Boeheim coaching like this. "At least the program wont get worse."

 

[Townie72]

The drumbeat from fans and alums has already begun. JB, praise his soul, will know it’s time after a few losing seasons (one is imminent, another is on the way next year), the program is belittled by the local and national media and the Dome crowds continue to dwindle. It’s sad to see his proud career end this way, but it’s inevitable.

“Belittled by the national media.”?

When? Where?

If only we were so lucky as to be that relevant.

UNC isn’t having a good year either.

Only on Syracusefan is SU’s season a topic of discussion that I have heard or read.

 

[Newhouser]

After Hop had already left, and Wildhack asked JB if he was willing to stick around a few more years.

The other options were Red, GMac, or hiring a new staff while we were still under sanctions for one more year.

Louisville seemed to hire a pretty good staff with sanctions looming. It would have cost us more in that situation but think we could have found someone. Wildhack kicked the can down the road.

 

[samspann1]

It is almost like you are rooting for the program to go down after JB just to prove a point.

I've thought the same thing. IMO, he seems like a fan of JB more than a fan of SU (yes, yes, yes...I know...JB is SU, blah blah blah)

 

[Alsacs]

“Belittled by the national media.”?

When? Where?

If only we were so lucky as to be that relevant.

UNC isn’t have a good year either.

Only on Syracusefan is SU’s season a topic of discussion that I have heard or read.

North Carolina's seed the last 5 years.
2014- 6 seed lost 2nd round to 3 seed.
2015- 4 seed lost sweet 16 to 1 seed.
2016-1 seed lost NC game at buzzer to Nova
2017- 1 seed won the NC
2018- 1 seed lost sweet 16 to 5 seed.

I think their fans if they are complaining this year are morons but I bet on aggregiate a majority of them understand a rebuilding year happens to everybody. They aren't going to lose their chit after one mediocre year. They are like this 3-4 years in a row. Then yes.

Don't compare UNC to SU.
SU has been mediocre in the regular season the last 4 years and this year the 5th year as well.

 

[cuseguy]

“Belittled by the national media.”?

When? Where?

If only we were so lucky as to be that relevant.

UNC isn’t have a good year either.

Only on Syracusefan is SU’s season a topic of discussion that I have heard or read.

Exactly. No one talks about our program anymore. We’re irrelevant.

But I’ve heard a number of national media, for weeks now, mention how this team — and the program in general — has fallen.

That chatter will increase as the losses mount. It’s still early.

 

[crzdsufan]

So “the zone no longer works”?

Bold statement. You probably have some statistics that prove your point. Please share.

What I understand is that SU is among the leaders in many defensive categories including 3 pt. Defense.

Lets not take things out of context, "The zone can be great BUT to ONLY play the zone no longer works and to not adapt to this becomes a BIGGER problem." Notice my points of it can be great and to ONLY use that and not adapt. Unfortunantly by the end of the year, after we start to play upper level ACC teams, even your numbers are likely to come down. I hope I'm wrong but even the last two games against lesser ACC teams start to show a pattern that will not be well accepted, ND shot 48.4% from three while VT shot 27.8%. VT was horrible dmittedly but the fact we aren't and can't rebound missed shots are giving teams incredible second chance opportunities that like VT, haunted us at the end. VT took 36 threes and shot 27.8% and still won.

 

[Townie72]

We are not going to become Wake Forest, Virginia Tech, Boston College in basketball post-Boeheim.
Those schools when they are good couldn't get 19k to watch their teams play a tomato can.
Syracuse can and they aren't coming now because of Boeheim.
If anything the teams we have put on the floor the last 5 years have hurt attendance.

“We are not going to become Wake Forest, Virginia Tech or Boston College in basketball in the post-Boeheim era”

Really?

Why not?

Because we currently draw big crowds?

Explain SU football to me, then. The crowds are temporary, not permanent fixtures.

Of course, if you believe in the White Knight galloping in and rescuing the program, then anything is possible.

 

[storange]

.500? I’ll sign up for that now. We aren’t sniffing .500 this year or next.

Really, your sure of that ? I’m not

 

[samspann1]

“We are not going to become Wake Forest, Virginia Tech or Boston College in basketball in the post-Boeheim era”

Really?

Why not?

Because we currently draw big crowds?

Explain SU football to me, then. The crowds are temporary, not permanent fixtures.

Of course, if you believe in the White Knight galloping in and rescuing the program, then anything is possible.

Alex, I'll take "What are programs who've all beaten Syracuse in the past 3 seasons?", for $1000

 

[Alsacs]

“We are not going to become Wake Forest, Virginia Tech or Boston College in basketball in the post-Boeheim era”

Really?

Why not?

Because we currently draw big crowds?

Explain SU football to me, then. The crowds are temporary, not permanent fixtures.

Of course, if you believe in the White Knight galloping in and rescuing the program, then anything is possible.

Okay you really are creating strawmans.
I think JB is the problem with recruiting. I don't think a lot of good potential players want to play 100% zone. They want to play in the NBA. Playing zone is fine but the 100% does hurt with good players who might be interested and that is negatively recruited agains us.
So that hurts with a portion of potential recruits. Second, his age is being negatively recruited against him. That is a fact. Third, he doesn't cast a wide net anymore. Our recruiting has stagnated in Philadelphia. Autry is keeping us relevant in MD/DC. We used to recruit more than just the I-95 corridor.
Fourth, football is completely different. There isn't a lot of local talent with 300 miles to Syracuse and the talent that is we compete with bigger football brands.
Syracuse basketball has a lot more talent within a 300 miles radius than football does.

I mean its almost like you just accept the fact Jim Boeheim is the only person who can do the job well. SU basketball is popular in the Northeast. I really don't get it. Name one game Wake Forest fans/Boston College fans/Virginia Tech basketball fans have taken over road arenas? They don't.

Syracuse fans do and its not because of Jim Boeheim. It's because the fanbase is large and cares.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I think their fans if they are complaining this year are morons but I bet on aggregiate a majority of them understand a rebuilding year happens to everybody. They aren't going to lose their chit after one mediocre year. They are like this 3-4 years in a row. Then yes.

From the UNC SB Nation blog:

I gladly will take 2010 for a championship in 2009
I will take this year for our chip in 17.
Our recruiting class next year is a LOT better than we think it is, IMO. In fact, I am really excited for RJ Davis, and he isn’t even the prize of the class.

 

[kingtidge]

It’ll get worse.

Not if we hire the right new coach it won't.

 

[orangecuse]

I’ve lived through the rise and fall of the SU football program twice (after the sixties and the nineties) and the fall of the SU lacrosse program from the pinnacle of the game.

I’ll be fine and will be philosophical about things. Not so those on here that desperately cling to the BB program and are so frustrated and vitriolic when things don’t go well.

After every loss the usual suspects are on here angry and frustrated assigning blame to everything and everyone. JB is just the most convenient target.

I think these 'usual suspects' should all just set this tune as their ringtone for evermore and just except the fact that life as we have known it relative to SU hoops has simply moved on.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

]

Let me see if I can wade through this babbling.

Yup, he’s going to retire.

Yup, we are a middle of the pack ACC team and will continue to be best case.

But, replacing JB sooner than later won’t improve that.

Blaming JB and running him off ASAP will probably make things worse in the short term.

It will be interesting to see if fan base comprised primarily of locals will adjust to being Wake Forest, Ga Tech or VT.

Man, you are a piece of work. You open with condescension and insult, and then move your goalposts and reframe, and still you can't deal with the illogic factual inaccuracies of your own original statements. There's a reason why you stand so alone in that field.

Your premise was that it's better to keep JB than not to. As if he doesn't have a 2-4 year window left.
You asked if we wanted "to settle" for being a middle of the pack ACC team, as if we haven't already been there. Now, you're acknowledging we are there.
You insist we can't be better than we are right now, which is stupid.
And what exactly is "ASAP?" If you're listening to a poster who thinks JB will be or should be fired right now, in the middle of the season, well, that's your fault. Maybe review the OP's subject title. "Last Year," not 'last game/last week.'

"Blaming JB?" Sure. He has zero culpability. Yes, he's responsible. He's mostly to 'blame.' He's the 'head' of the program. Not sure who else you would assign blame to. I guess when you're in a 'cultthink' mentality, it's never the fault of the worshipped.

How do you figure the fan base is comprised of "locals?" Everyone i knew at SU came from Jersey, NY, or Mass. Whatever. Maybe you're talking about Dome audiences, but that's not what you said. What's the difference between us and Wake/GT/VT? If you can only come up with "JB," that may be the problem right there.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Okay you really are creating strawmans.
I think JB is the problem with recruiting. I don't think a lot of good potential players want to play 100% zone. They want to play in the NBA. Playing zone is fine but the 100% does hurt with good players who might be interested and that is negatively recruited agains us.
So that hurts with a portion of potential recruits. Second, his age is being negatively recruited against him. That is a fact. Third, he doesn't cast a wide net anymore. Our recruiting has stagnated in Philadelphia. Autry is keeping us relevant in MD/DC. We used to recruit more than just the I-95 corridor.
Fourth, football is completely different. There isn't a lot of local talent with 300 miles to Syracuse and the talent that is we compete with bigger football brands.
Syracuse basketball has a lot more talent within a 300 miles radius than football does.

I mean its almost like you just accept the fact Jim Boeheim is the only person who can do the job well. SU basketball is popular in the Northeast. I really don't get it. Name one game Wake Forest fans/Boston College fans/Virginia Tech basketball fans have taken over road arenas? They don't.

Syracuse fans do and its not because of Jim Boeheim. It's because the fanbase is large and cares.

You missed the obvious counter point: SU Football at its peak played in front of half as many fans the top P5 schools, while SU basketball leads the country In attendance and has an arena 2x the size of most P5 schools. But he is right apples and apples.