Hop's Not Going Anywhere...

[Cusefan0307]

In case some of you haven't figured it out there are successful people in Syracuse too.

Like I live a lot more comfortably than my friends in New York or Boston...

 

[Cusefan0307]

Top 5 to 10 program?

As long as you believe that —- and I’m sure you do —- you are going to be mystified by the process surrounding the hiring of any new coach.

Watching this tournament shows there are lots of good players, coaches and programs out there. Many are just as good as SU and some are better.

The world is changing. We used to be a dominant lacrosse program too.

Maybe not top 5, but theres polls on this every year. It definately is a top 10-15 job at least and top 4 in the ACC.

That was decided by the coaches by the way. Not the media who have built in biases.

Also we just paid our football coach 4 million.

This is not the administration of years past. Wildhack has shown we are playing with the big boys.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Top 5 to 10 program?

As long as you believe that —- and I’m sure you do —- you are going to be mystified by the process surrounding the hiring of any new coach.

Watching this tournament shows there are lots of good players, coaches and programs out there. Many are just as good as SU and some are better.

The world is changing. We used to be a dominant lacrosse program too.

We just ripped the heart out of #2 ranked Duke yesterday so we're still pretty good.

I agree with everything you said except using the changes in college lacrosse (and SU's diminished stature) as an example of what might happen in basketball.

It was an inevitability that we would no longer be able to refer to the lacrosse final four as the Orange Invitational because of parity.

College hoops isn't facing the same dynamic. But I agree that the SU hoops gig isn't quite Top 5-10.

 

[PhatOrange]

Top 5-10? Smh

When you have the best facilities and the biggest attendance and the tradition that Syracuse has then yes it's a top 5-10 job. smh

 

[Trueblue25]

Our faces when Hop’s in consideration for the Duke job

 

[Eric15]

So yeah, your post is hilariously misguided, though I suspect you’re really some schmuck in Auburn (or some other suburb) trying to troll.

Not following here, why would people in Syracuse suburbs be anti-Syracuse?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Our faces when Hop’s in consideration for the Duke job

PoppyHart will be happy. He doesn't want to even offer him the SU job.

 

[Trueblue25]

PoppyHart will be happy. He doesn't want to even offer him the SU job.

Yes, why the hell would we want someone who’s on the verge of building a winning tradition at a program who just recently was the pit of the p5. What? It took him 2 whole years?

 

[corpjet]

He’s coming he just negotiated for more money short term and to not screw UW when he comes later.

He’s an alum and no sane person would turn down a top 10 ncaa job. Would it surprise anyone If Dino went to usc in a few years? Same situation imo except this one holds more water w the alum and wife from area angle

Hopefully the latest USC scandal keeps Dino away as I believe thats the only threat of him leaving

Onto Hop would love him back esp after what he's done at UW however they always say you never want to follow a "Legend"...does Hop still want to come back or does he like the west coast life he grew up in...Also keep in mind we won't be the only ones knocking on his door if he continues his success...

 

[nzm136]

Not following here, why would people in Syracuse suburbs be anti-Syracuse?

To be contrarian.

 

[nzm136]

When you have the best facilities and the biggest attendance and the tradition that Syracuse has then yes it's a top 5-10 job. smh

That’s just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[nzm136]

We just ripped the heart out of #2 ranked Duke yesterday so we're still pretty good.

I agree with everything you said except using the changes in college lacrosse (and SU's diminished stature) as an example of what might happen in basketball.

It was an inevitability that we would no longer be able to refer to the lacrosse final four as the Orange Invitational because of parity.

College hoops isn't facing the same dynamic. But I agree that the SU hoops gig isn't quite Top 5-10.

Name 10 better jobs.

 

[nzm136]

Recruiting is a national thing now. Getting to Stewart to go to Washington proves that. Our roster next is going to have some dudes.

Pretending like UDub is on Syracuse’s level is rich.

Out of curiosity, how much time do you spend on USC boards telling them that your football program is better than theirs?

How much time do you spend on Texas sites talking about finances of western schools?

 

[nzm136]

Top 5-10? Smh

Whether you like it or not, we are. Sanctions cut into wins, but the underlying program is unchanged.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

He plays zone all the time basically exclusively outside of the 2nd half of an NIT game. He does many things just like JB including keeping kids off the foul line with multiple minutes left in games.

I really want our next coach to play a fast paced up and down game with in your face defense .. I think it will lead to better talent wanting to come here.

It will also likely lead to higher variance in seasons .. we’ll likely be terrible some years and great some .. vs the 23-10 to 20-13 type teams we’re pretty much guaranteed to be now

 

[Cusefan0307]

I really want our next coach to play a fast paced up and down game with in your face defense .. I think it will lead to better talent wanting to come here.

It will also likely lead to higher variance in seasons .. we’ll likely be terrible some years and great some .. vs the 23-10 to 20-13 type teams we’re pretty much guaranteed to be now

Then how did Hopkins get Stewart, Quade Green and maybe Jaden McDaniels to go there?

 

[ForCuseSake]

Name 10 better jobs.

In no particular order...

UNC
Duke
Kansas
Kentucky
UCLA
Michigan
Villanova
Michigan St.
Indiana
Louisville

This is obviously subjective. Some of the criteria that I used were fan support, program history, AD support/investment in program, national stature.

I don't think anyone can argue UK, KU, UNC and Duke are all superior coaching jobs to SU.

UCLA and Indiana are once proud "franchises" that have fallen on difficult times but have proven capable of reaching a final four across different generations with different coaching staffs. I can see why some would argue SU is better but these jobs don't have the added burden of replacing a legend that SU does (that goes against SU IMO).

Michigan is rolling in cash and has history equal to SU. It's a national brand with tremendous fan support and multiple coaches have taken it to a FF. MSU is also a national brand with multiple titles won by different coaches. Ditto Louisville and Villanova (multiple titles won by different coaches over different eras).

I tried to look at it from a coaching candidates point of view. Assuming the next coach doesn't completely crater the program (i.e. Grob) then I think replacing JB's replacement is likely a top 10 job (also assuming we're still drawing 20k to games).

 

[Cusefan0307]

In no particular order...

UNC
Duke
Kansas
Kentucky
UCLA
Michigan
Villanova
Michigan St.
Indiana
Louisville

This is obviously subjective. Some of the criteria that I used were fan support, program history, AD support/investment in program, national stature.

I don't think anyone can argue UK, KU, UNC and Duke are all superior coaching jobs to SU.

UCLA and Indiana are once proud "franchises" that have fallen on difficult times but have proven capable of reaching a final four across different generations with different coaching staffs. I can see why some would argue SU is better but these jobs don't have the added burden of replacing a legend that SU does (that goes against SU IMO).

Michigan is rolling in cash and has history equal to SU. It's a national brand with tremendous fan support and multiple coaches have taken it to a FF. MSU is also a national brand with multiple titles won by different coaches. Ditto Louisville and Villanova (multiple titles won by different coaches over different eras).

I tried to look at it from a coaching candidates point of view. Assuming the next coach doesn't completely crater the program (i.e. Grob) then I think replacing JB's replacement is likely a top 10 job (also assuming we're still drawing 20k to games).

UCLA is not a better job. They have no money. They are getting no good coach this year. And their facilities stink.

 

[ForCuseSake]

UCLA is not a better job. They have no money. They are getting no good coach this year. And their facilities stink.

I disagree. They've had 3 coaches take that program to a FF across nearly 50 years. They're in a hotbed of talent and have some of the more famous alumni in the NBA.

Steve Alford is a crap coach; any up & coming coach looks at that job as a great opportunity to return that program to glory after Alford has trashed it.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I disagree. They've had 3 coaches take that program to a FF across nearly 50 years. They're in a hotbed of talent and have some of the more famous NBA alumni in the NBA.

Steve Alford is a crap coach; any up & coming coach looks at that job as a great opportunity to return that program to glory after Alford has trashed it.

The UCLA administrators think the job is better than it is and the Pac 12 overall is awful. They had Ben Howland there who took the program to 3 FF's and fired him after winning 25 games because he lost in the first round.

They have invested nothing in the program and that's why they are where they are.

And for being such a bad coach Alford took New Mexico and Iowa to multiple NCAA tournaments. Not exactly easy to do in either of those places.

 

[ForCuseSake]

The UCLA administrators think the job is better than it is and the Pac 12 overall is awful. They had Ben Howland there who took the program to 3 FF's and fired him after winning 25 games because he lost in the first round.

They have invested nothing in the program and that's why they are where they are.

And for being such a bad coach Alford took New Mexico and Iowa to multiple NCAA tournaments. Not exactly easy to do in either of those places.

McCaffery has surpassed Alford's record at Iowa. Alford went to 3 NITs, and 3 NCAAs (and missed his first and last year) at Iowa. Iowa was a perennial tourney team in the late 80s and 90s under Tom Davis. I think Alford left Iowa a year before the axe would've found him.

I don't think you'd see many good coaches leave Iowa for New Mexico if they weren't fearful of getting canned.

Howland was dumped because his style wore thin not because of unrealistic expectations.

The PAC may be currently awful but there was a time when it didn't suck.

 

[NKR1978]

In no particular order...

UNC
Duke
Kansas
Kentucky
UCLA
Michigan
Villanova
Michigan St.
Indiana
Louisville

This is obviously subjective. Some of the criteria that I used were fan support, program history, AD support/investment in program, national stature.

I don't think anyone can argue UK, KU, UNC and Duke are all superior coaching jobs to SU.

UCLA and Indiana are once proud "franchises" that have fallen on difficult times but have proven capable of reaching a final four across different generations with different coaching staffs. I can see why some would argue SU is better but these jobs don't have the added burden of replacing a legend that SU does (that goes against SU IMO).

Michigan is rolling in cash and has history equal to SU. It's a national brand with tremendous fan support and multiple coaches have taken it to a FF. MSU is also a national brand with multiple titles won by different coaches. Ditto Louisville and Villanova (multiple titles won by different coaches over different eras).

I tried to look at it from a coaching candidates point of view. Assuming the next coach doesn't completely crater the program (i.e. Grob) then I think replacing JB's replacement is likely a top 10 job (also assuming we're still drawing 20k to games).

I'd put SU and Arizona over Indiana and Villanova. Nova isn't a great job necessarily, but it is a great program and Wright is a great coach. They've been a poor-mediocre program in its recent history. Indiana hasn't done anything since 2002.

 

[ForCuseSake]

I'd put SU and Arizona over Indiana and Villanova. Nova isn't a great job necessarily, but it is a great program and Wright is a great coach. They've been a poor-mediocre program in its recent history. Indiana hasn't done anything since 2002.

I thought about Arizona but Miller hasn't had enough post season success to make it better than SU. Lute built the program nationally and nobody before or since has been able to bring it to a FF or win another title.

Nova is a better gig. Rollie had national success with them in the 80s. Lappas was the sacrificial "guy replacing the legend" in the 90s and Wright came in and built a program stronger than Rollie's.

No competition from DI football and smack dab in talent rich Philly help make Nova a better gig IMO.

 

[NKR1978]

I thought about Arizona but Miller hasn't had enough post season success to make it better than SU. Lute built the program nationally and nobody before or since has been able to bring it to a FF or win another title.

Nova is a better gig. Rollie had national success with them in the 80s. Lappas was the sacrificial "guy replacing the legend" in the 90s and Wright came in and built a program stronger than Rollie's.

No competition from DI football and smack dab in talent rich Philly help make Nova a better gig IMO.

Other than Duke, Carolina, Kansas and Kentucky that next group is pretty close to each other. We are definitely in that next group from 5-12.

We have plenty going for us that can put us above them depending on what you value you place on various aspects of what makes a good job. I think we're definitely in the 5-12 range.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Other than Duke, Carolina, Kansas and Kentucky that next group is pretty close to each other. We are definitely in that next group from 5-12.

We have plenty going for us that can put us above them depending on what you value you place on various aspects of what makes a good job. I think we're definitely in the 5-12 range.

That's reasonable to me. I think the SU gig could be top 10 (5-10) but isn't quite there yet.

If the next coach stumbles only mildly (and they certainly will stumble) but is able to reach FFs or win another title then I think it's solidly a top 10 job. Or if the person who replaces JB's successor brings the program another title or national prominence (i.e. FFs) then it's a top 10 job.

It's difficult for me to make it a top 10 job now because only one man has been responsible for the modern era success of the program.