How does Dino fix the running game?

[007]

Who'd you bring in?

Just throwing out Mackey's name

Not sure if you were asking me. I have ZERO information as to whether there will or will not be a coaching change or a shake up of any kind.

Speculating on names is pointless...so here goes. IF there is a move, Gilbert might have a vote. IF Gilbert has a vote, research Matt Mattox. Macky's name wont be on the list unless CousCuse has a vote.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Oline getting healthy before next year will help a ton. Aside from that we need a game changer at qb, wr, and/or RB. We MIGHT have that at RB (with one coming in) and Lutz could be dangerous in the slot if moved as well as JJ.
That said, we currently have no one on offense that scare defenses. As result we're very easy to game plan for and play man up at every position.

 

[sufandu]

We had those things in 2016 and 2017 yet we could not run the ball. 2018 was our best running year and we had our weakest down field threat in years 1-3.

If we need a Top 1/3 of the conference OL to actually see this O as Dino ideally wants, we may never get there. We need to be able to run the ball with middle of the pack OLmen.

Teams change from year to year. Maybe the oline personnel will be better next year if it's healthy than it was in 2016-17. If we combine the 2018 line with either #1 WR from '16 or '17 maybe it's even better. We have to hope young WRs we haven't seen will be better than what we've had this year and the oline is better.

I'm not sure what answers you're looking for. Do you want people to just say it's hopeless and that it can't be done?

 

[cusefan88]

I think that the coaching staff has not recruited a natural center pretty much since Babers joined. One can tell the team has minimal interior push and that issue extends to the whole line quickly.

Heckel - more of an OG
Servais - OT
Vettorello - OT
Colin Byrne - started because the first-string C got hurt (jason emerich).

So yes the lack of a natural center i think has been a huge issue

 

[PhatOrange]

An OL coach I was intrigued by is Randy Clements unfortunately he’s now at Ole Miss.

 

[PhatOrange]

Babers undoing has been and will be his inability to run the football. In theory the concept is a good one but I think the DLines in the ACC are very good up the middle and when your QB isn’t a threat to pull it out and run it’s fairly easy to defend.

it doesn’t help that our Center play has been very poor over the past 5 years and we didn’t have very good running backs when our guards were good. We finally have a good back. I think next year with a healthy Tucker to go with DDavis, Bleich, Tisdale and PDavis we’ll get different results. We also started running stretch plays with Tucker and had success.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Babers undoing has been and will be his inability to run the football. In theory the concept is a good one but I think the DLines in the ACC are very good up the middle and when your QB isn’t a threat to pull it out and run it’s fairly easy to defend.

it doesn’t help that our Center play has been very poor over the past 5 years and we didn’t have very good running backs when our guards were good. We finally have a good back. I think next year with a healthy Tucker to go with DDavis, Bleich, Tisdale and PDavis we’ll get different results. We also started running stretch plays with Tucker and had success.

Does the scheme work against ACC level DTs?

Anything works when you have a top 1/3 of the ACC OL (which we will not realistically have often at SU). Nothing works when you have a bottom 1/3 OL (which we will have from time to time). We need to be able to run the ball well with a middle 1/3 OL. The last 2 years were bottom 1/3. Were Dino's 1st 2 years as well? 2018 seemed to be a decent OL but even then our running game was mediocre.

Is our failure to run the ball the last 5 years due to not having a middle 1/3 OL or is it partially scheme? Also we play against a lot of 3 man fronts in the ACC. How much of our issues stem from that? How much comes form not having a QB threat that keeps the D honest from crashing down on those inside runs?

An O HC should know more how important a decent OL is yet he under recruited it his first few years.

 

[sufandu]

Does the scheme work against ACC level DTs?

Anything works when you have a top 1/3 of the ACC OL (which we will not realistically have often at SU). Nothing works when you have a bottom 1/3 OL (which we will have from time to time). We need to be able to run the ball well with a middle 1/3 OL. The last 2 years were bottom 1/3. Were Dino's 1st 2 years as well? 2018 seemed to be a decent OL but even then our running game was mediocre.

Is our failure to run the ball the last 5 years due to not having a middle 1/3 OL or is it partially scheme? Also we play against a lot of 3 man fronts in the ACC. How much of our issues stem from that? How much comes form not having a QB threat that keeps the D honest from crashing down on those inside runs?

An O HC should know more how important a decent OL is yet he under recruited it his first few years.

It's not like he didn't try to recruit it. He just didn't get who he wanted or they didn't pan out. He had commits from two 4 star olineman in one class. One didn't make the grades. It seems like the other may never play for medical reasons. We've had other guys lost to career ending injuries/conditions. That's not under recruiting. That's unfortunate.

 

[AngryOtto]

Start by not moving our best OL of 2020 back to fullback...

Actually would like him moved to dt and add 10 pounds of muscle

 

[AngryOtto]

Babers undoing has been and will be his inability to run the football. In theory the concept is a good one but I think the DLines in the ACC are very good up the middle and when your QB isn’t a threat to pull it out and run it’s fairly easy to defend.

it doesn’t help that our Center play has been very poor over the past 5 years and we didn’t have very good running backs when our guards were good. We finally have a good back. I think next year with a healthy Tucker to go with DDavis, Bleich, Tisdale and PDavis we’ll get different results. We also started running stretch plays with Tucker and had success.

We need a true center. Hit transfer portal hard for a center and OT.

 

[KevMonstah]

I think Dino's caught a bit in between styles here. He wanted tempo, which resulted in OLs who were smaller, and faster, and could take the tempo. He also wants guys who can run block.

Problem is, right now, the OL can't run or pass block, and that's pretty amazing actually. He lost N guys due
to medical DQs ok, other guys are hurt or are just incapable of getting on the field, forever I guess, and
that is a crime. You're telling me that three years of coaching cannot get a 4* OT onto the field in Qadir
White? Baffling. BC has had a reputation for good OL play for what seems like decades, and they do not
have any great advantage over Syracuse as far as facilities, env, whatever, but they can do it? Why can't
SU?

Kev

 

[Bulldog04]

Take Coach Cav to Golden Corral and leave him there

 

[AAM62]

I think that the coaching staff has not recruited a natural center pretty much since Babers joined. One can tell the team has minimal interior push and that issue extends to the whole line quickly.

Heckel - more of an OG
Servais - OT
Vettorello - OT
Colin Byrne - started because the first-string C got hurt (jason emerich).

So yes the lack of a natural center i think has been a huge issue

They did, he just never made it on campus

 

[SWC75]

Again, if you have a pocket passer and one RB, you need a dominant offensive line to make it work. If you don't you need 2 running backs so the defense doesn't know which one is going to get the ball. It's either a running QB or a second RB.

 

[SWC75]

I think that the coaching staff has not recruited a natural center pretty much since Babers joined. One can tell the team has minimal interior push and that issue extends to the whole line quickly.

Heckel - more of an OG
Servais - OT
Vettorello - OT
Colin Byrne - started because the first-string C got hurt (jason emerich).

So yes the lack of a natural center i think has been a huge issue

Tyrone Sampson Jr. - Football - Fresno State

Tyrone Sampson Jr. (50) OL - 2023 (SENIOR*): Appeared in 10 games … started the first two games of the season at left guard … started the Oct. 13 game at Uta...

gobulldogs.com

We were supposed to have a line anchored by 4 star guys Tyrone Sampson and Qadir White by now.

 

[cusefan88]

Tyrone Sampson Jr. - Football - Fresno State

Tyrone Sampson Jr. (50) OL - 2023 (SENIOR*): Appeared in 10 games … started the first two games of the season at left guard … started the Oct. 13 game at Uta...

gobulldogs.com

We were supposed to have a line anchored by 4 star guys Tyrone Sampson and Qadir White by now.

Oh I know. Having an issue and not getting one player over 5 seasons and it coming to our current state pretty bad. I don't think the staff has done well with OL and obviously it shows.

EDIT: Sampson doesn't start for Fresno St either.

 

[SoBristol]

Tyrone Sampson Jr. - Football - Fresno State

Tyrone Sampson Jr. (50) OL - 2023 (SENIOR*): Appeared in 10 games … started the first two games of the season at left guard … started the Oct. 13 game at Uta...

gobulldogs.com

We were supposed to have a line anchored by 4 star guys Tyrone Sampson and Qadir White by now.

People who continue to mention Qadir White haven’t seen his pear-shaped body on the sidelines. Never was a genuine candidate to play.

The hope for the OL rests with the young guys — Ilaoa and Red and possibly Froumy. Each of the 3 will bring genuine size (in the 310 lb range by next September) and possibly the ability to move. We have 4 returning starters, plus Bleich if he is 100% by next season. With that bunch, we should look like an ACC line — and we will have to see which ones can play the part. At least we will have a better combination of experience, size, and numbers than we have had this season or last.

 

[timkay99]

Not sure I would want Macky at this time. For those down on Cav he has put guys in the NFL. I don't know if it's him or not. He is easy to blame but concepts are concepts. Is it Cavs fault his team doesn't have the strength to push dline off the line? Is it Cavs fault our receivers can't catch or our 2nd, 3rd and 4th string QBs can barely run an offense? Is it Cavs fault that Babers chose not to recruit oline harder? Are the injuries his fault? I am not saying he might not get his walking papers but I am also not sure blame falls on him 100%. Then again if the players are tuning him out and he has problems teaching that's different.

If you are a power 5 coach, you have typically put somebody in the NFL. Curious who you credit to Cavanaugh?

Figure all the Oregon State guys, but 4 guys from 2005-2014 (from the SU coaching page) isn't very strong.

Nebraska, can see Gates, but Lewis and Sterup were seniors in '15

Inherited Conway and Martin as seniors for Syracuse, maybe Adams (who was already starting)?

As a coach who got a guy drafted in baseball after having him for 1 year, I can tell you that nothing I did in that 1 year got him drafted. So I am hesitant to attribute someone who was already starting (especially seniors) to a new coach.

The concern I have with the OL is they are making mistakes I don't see when I watch other college games. Block air a large number of times and miss an inordinate # of assignments (in this scheme, that may be attributable to the freshman RB). They also don't consistently win 1 on 1, let alone get to the 2nd level on run plays.

Overall, the talent I perceive to be on the OL doesn't play to their respective level.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Here were the rushing numbers in the last 3 games of last season

286 vs Duke
261 vs Louisville
180 vs Wake Forest

Maybe there is still hope they will be able to run the ball even with a pocket QB.

 

[upperdeck]

I wonder sometimes how much the oline issues are lack of practice or talent or mental or physical. We see all the strength numbers but we get knocked back across the board is that technique or power?

blocking air happens way too much, thats confusion and practice time surely hurts that. without bodies you cant do the work.

Missed blocks, getting beat. Having your best Tackle so hurt he has to move and then cant contain a speed rush means you now have 2 weaker spots, we are just plugging the dike here.

 

[gmoney44]

Not sure I would want Macky at this time. For those down on Cav he has put guys in the NFL. I don't know if it's him or not. He is easy to blame but concepts are concepts. Is it Cavs fault his team doesn't have the strength to push dline off the line? Is it Cavs fault our receivers can't catch or our 2nd, 3rd and 4th string QBs can barely run an offense? Is it Cavs fault that Babers chose not to recruit oline harder? Are the injuries his fault? I am not saying he might not get his walking papers but I am also not sure blame falls on him 100%. Then again if the players are tuning him out and he has problems teaching that's different.

The part that gets me is we are often beat immediately by a 3 man front or get zero push against it when we run. It seems like our guys are always confused who they have. To me that is coaching or we recruit the dumbest players ever.

 

[cusefan88]

It's a long shot but if Texas fires Tom Herman then their OL coach Herb Hand becomes available. Well regarded and he's from Westmoreland, NY and played at Hamilton. Probably don't have enough $$$ for him.

 

[RandomGuy]

The part that gets me is we are often beat immediately by a 3 man front or get zero push against it when we run. It seems like our guys are always confused who they have. To me that is coaching or we recruit the dumbest players ever.

 

[upperdeck]

i dont think any scheme would tell the center to hand off the NT with a 3 man rush. and they still had a TB to handle a late blitz and he got run over too.

 

[SuFTW]

Who'd you bring in?

Just throwing out Mackey's name

Mackey’s not even coaching right now and his last job was as an RB coach at Kent st. I don’t think he would have a resume or coaching record to bring in good recruits at this stage in his career.